>> Gameplay attribute for ratings

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>> Gameplay attribute for ratings

Postby lackattack on Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:35 pm

Concise description:
  • Add a "Gameplay" attribute to the ratings system (which would include teamwork).

Specifics:
  • There have been suggestions for a "Skill" attribute and our position has been that ratings are intended to influence behaviour, not skill, and we already have features to measure and reward skill. However there are behaviours that don't fall under "Fair Play" that we want to influence, such as killing the wrong assassin target or going after your teammate. Things that can make or break the game experience for others.
  • The "Gameplay" attribute could be defined as this: measures how the player's ability to play makes the game enjoyable (not the player's ability to win). covers strategy, diplomacy, teamwork, etc...
  • "Gameplay" would pretty much cover the issues behind teamwork and members looking for good teammates should be able to make use of it to find good teammates. So "Teamwork" (which was an akward attribute that doesn't apply to all game types) could be dropped. This will result in a loss of information in the short turn, but will make for a simpler and cleaner ratings system in the long term.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
  • Ratings attributes will better represent the types of behaviour we want to encourage or discourage.

EDIT: Please give your input on this suggestion! :D
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Re: Gameplay attribute for ratings

Postby t-o-m on Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:36 pm

lol
this is funny that youre suggesting somehting for your own great site

or are you asking for our feedback?
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Re: Gameplay attribute for ratings

Postby Frop on Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:05 pm

'Gameplay' is probably even more vague than 'Fair Play' or 'Attitude'. There's nothing wrong with the Skill based proposals, unless you truly believe that win % and points are accurate indications of skill.
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Re: Gameplay attribute for ratings

Postby Lindax on Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:18 pm

I would like to get an idea of peoples "Risk Skills" so why not change it to: "measures the player's ability to play a good game of Risk (including the player's ability to win). covers strategy, diplomacy, teamwork, etc..."
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Re: Gameplay attribute for ratings

Postby Incandenza on Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:48 pm

I dunno, I think things like killing your teammate, suiciding, and even killing the wrong target in assassin can be covered by fair play.

The problem with a de facto skill rating is that people's estimates of the skill of others will be wildly subjective (much more so than the existing system of ranks, points, win%) due to personal prejudice ("ZOMG you only attacked me even tho that was the strategically valid thing to do so I'm giving you a 1"), jealousy ("ZOMG you only won cause of good dice so I'm giving you a 1"), anger ("ZOMG your dice went sour during an escalating killshot with a decent but not amazing chance of success and you hanged someone so I'm leaving you a 1"), etc.

Mostly I think people want a skill rating so they can vent their spleens, which to me isn't a good reason to institute one.

And let's not even get into the fact that, like I've said before, there will be people on this site that would give the Duke of Marlborough a 1 skill rating because they simply didn't understand the moves he made that resulted in his victory.
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Re: Gameplay attribute for ratings

Postby FabledIntegral on Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:56 pm

I disagree - Include ability to win. Otherwise if it's included I will include that anyways, as well as other people, and you know it will happen
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Re: Gameplay attribute for ratings

Postby gloryordeath on Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:33 pm

This is all good and fine but we have to think of plain luck, plain bad luck ie. leaving just 1 of a player with five cards and the next guy clears the game,the dice argument both good and bad, you will have high ranked players who see all below them as less than a 1 and low rank players that think all high rank players are cheaters.
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Re: >> Gameplay attribute for ratings

Postby yeti_c on Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:08 am

I'd be disappointed to have the loss of the Teamwork rating.

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Re: >> Gameplay attribute for ratings

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:44 am

I still think that unless these factors are seperated, folks will use them innappropriately.

For example, "attacking the wrong assassin target" does not affect play in other games. Also, it tends to be something most folks only do once or so, and fully by mistake. Bad play, but part of the learning curve.

Team play might be a matter of learning OR it might be an indicator of someone's skill. They might not coordinate well. They might not speak the same language. Or, they might just be a poor player overall. These things won't affect other game types at all.

And, those who want to rate "skill" will use this to do so.

For the "record" I am against a skill rating mostly I feel the majority of those who want it are not the best judges of skill themselves ... and often are those who just find it easier to blame others than to look to improving their own play. Not always, but a large percentage of the time.

I know it would never "fly" but a part of me wants to suggest that ONLY those who are at least majors be allowed to leave a skill rating. Of course, in reality, there are a few who got to be majors by playing a particular game type exclusively against largely new folks... but I find irony in thinking of it.

P.S. thank you for posting a poll.

I would much rather see some kind of "check off" system ... perhaps with room for an umoderated response (or moderated strictly for language/serious threats ... something beyond "If you ever play me, I will rate you down ... because the person can always put them on their ignore list and avoid that ... but other stuff )
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Re: >> Gameplay attribute for ratings

Postby wicked on Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:14 am

I see this as rating someone on whether they how to play, e.g. not killing wrong target, not weakening themselves fighting for continents in Esc or 1v1's, spreading themselves out and blocking, etc. It's pretty easy to tell if someone understands the basic strategies needed to win a game, so that's how you would rate them in gameplay.
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Re: >> Gameplay attribute for ratings

Postby Incandenza on Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:43 am

wicked wrote:I see this as rating someone on whether they how to play, e.g. not killing wrong target, not weakening themselves fighting for continents in Esc or 1v1's, spreading themselves out and blocking, etc. It's pretty easy to tell if someone understands the basic strategies needed to win a game, so that's how you would rate them in gameplay.


But what I'm saying is that you can already somewhat extrapolate whether or not someone's going to be able to do those things based on their rank and games played and medals and what not... if he's got an assassin medal, he knows what he's doing. If he's only played 10 games and I'm facing him in a waterloo foggy 1v1, then I know what to expect. If she's still a cook after 500 games, well then that speaks for itself.

Sure, a skill rating could potentially be another tool, but for every major that wants to congratulate a cadet on a game well played, there's a hundred stripes that want to complain about what they perceive as irrational or unfair gameplay, especially when it comes to two higher-ranked players extending unspoken courtesy (i.e. mutually coexisting with continents 'cause it would knock them both out of the game if they got into some big pissing contest).
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Re: >> Gameplay attribute for ratings

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:50 pm

Incandenza wrote:
wicked wrote:I see this as rating someone on whether they how to play, e.g. not killing wrong target, not weakening themselves fighting for continents in Esc or 1v1's, spreading themselves out and blocking, etc. It's pretty easy to tell if someone understands the basic strategies needed to win a game, so that's how you would rate them in gameplay.


But what I'm saying is that you can already somewhat extrapolate whether or not someone's going to be able to do those things based on their rank and games played and medals and what not... if he's got an assassin medal, he knows what he's doing. If he's only played 10 games and I'm facing him in a waterloo foggy 1v1, then I know what to expect. If she's still a cook after 500 games, well then that speaks for itself.

Sure, a skill rating could potentially be another tool, but for every major that wants to congratulate a cadet on a game well played, there's a hundred stripes that want to complain about what they perceive as irrational or unfair gameplay, especially when it comes to two higher-ranked players extending unspoken courtesy (i.e. mutually coexisting with continents 'cause it would knock them both out of the game if they got into some big pissing contest).


Or a lower ranked player using non-standard tactics to win a game/take out a high ranked terminator player. Bolded the above for agreement.


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Re: >> Gameplay attribute for ratings

Postby Lexitonia5 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:12 pm

I think this would be a FANTASTIC addition to the ratings system, but knowing whether someone would make a good doubles, triples or quadruples partner is also important. I don't think this should elminate the team player rating.

If I am understanding correctly, this rating would tell you how aggressive/passive a player may be; how much thought they put into their moves, whether they suffer with ratings envy (IE, a player lower ranked player that consistently goes after a higher ranked player in a non-terminator game even if the moves do not good for the lower ranked player); highlight people who deadbeat 2 rounds and most of three in order to earn additional armies (In my opinion that is the only thing I would change about the way the game is set up on conquer club: Missing a turn should not garner you a reward no matter what the reason is that you missed.) and such other behaviors. I could count 50 games I would NOT have joined had such a ratings system been put in place.

I vote a resounding YES for this one.
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Re: >> Gameplay attribute for ratings

Postby White Moose on Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:34 pm

lackattack wrote:measures how the player's ability to play makes the game enjoyable (not the player's ability to win). covers strategy, diplomacy, teamwork, etc...


After reading the discription of what the attribute would mean, i got the feeling that 'Game Play' could involve almost all the existing ratings aswell..

Fair Play: covers suiciding, secret alliance suspicion, breaking or respecting alliances, chivalry, etc...
# Attendance: covers deadbeating, missing turns, deliberately prolonging rounds, finding a babysitter to keep things moving, etc...
# Attitude: covers behaviour in chat, foul language, sore losers, gracious winners, "great chatters!", whining about dice, etc...
# Teamwork: covers playing with teammates - coordination, communication, etc...


The 'Gameplay' attribute would kind of involve all of these 4 in a way.

How Fairplay is involved:
A game isnt enjoyable when people use secret alliance, break alliances. etc.

How Attendance is involved:
A game isnt enjoyable when people deadbeat, miss turns or deliberately prolonging rounds.

How Attitude is involved:
A game isnt enjoyable if your opponent use foul language, is a sore loser or whine about dices.

How Teamwork is involved:
A game isnt enjoyable if your teammate doesnt coordinate with you and dont work as a team even though you want to.

So...

If the 'gameplay' attribute measures how the player's ability to play makes the game enjoyable, then it would be to much involvement with all the other attibutes.

What i suggest:

Don't add another attribute, its great as it is now.

A attribute which involves skill isnt nessecary, since you can already see a players skill by looking at other statistics, as win % etc etc.

Just my thoughts regarding this.
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Re: >> Gameplay attribute for ratings

Postby mininimi on Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:39 pm

There should be a star rating for skill level. That way losers who dont know what they are doing are punished :evil: :evil: :evil: But if u ask me, the rating system should be abandoned because it doesnt tell u anything. For example, people who are sore losers could lower someones rating even if the only reason is because that guy is good.
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