Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby moo_biatch on Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:55 pm

It was moved for flow reasons. If the # box was on the left still, people would select a # of troops, then select the place to take them from and the the # box would reset. That causes an extra step.
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Re: Fortificateing Suggestion.

Postby Orwell on Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:40 pm

I think most would understand after a few games, and it isint that hard to understand. But a other way of doing it is to set it as Filter on control panel: From Easy Fortifcateing [v] to Moderate For...[x]

An option would be great. Not because the new arrangement is hard understand - but because it is completely illogical.
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby yeti_c on Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:23 pm

tobinov wrote:Max forts as default is fine.

Moving the dropdown box was a mistake:
"Reinforce from (A) to (B) (#) troops" is awkward to say the least
whereas
"Reinforce (#) troops from (A) to (B)" is clear.

If a change in the order is important, I suggest:
"(A) sends (#) troops to reinforce (B)"


This one.

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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby cougarfoxtrot on Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:41 pm

Can't stand this change...the logic is counterintuitive
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby owenshooter on Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:39 pm

Thezzaruz wrote:It just feels strange because you're not used to it and thus is forming the sentence based on the old system and not on your actual thought process, I think we all can agree that the first choice we make is "from where" and then consider "how many". And this change actually makes it more intuitive now IMO.

no, it feels strange because it is counter intuitive and illogical. never in my life has my first choice been to thing "from where" and then to consider "how many". it is always "how many" and then "from where". now, if you are german, i will agree with you, just based on the language structure used in deutschland. other than that, no way this is more intuitive. again, as many others have said, it is counter intuitive and just upsets the flow of the game when you switch to fortifying. makes no sense to attack and then re-enforce in 2 seperate ways. zero sense... the black jesus has spoken...-0
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Reverse Polish Notation

Postby kmhebert on Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:51 pm

Heh some like it but some don't. Can't this be optional?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Polish_notation
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Re: Reverse Polish Notation

Postby owenshooter on Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:09 pm

kmhebert wrote:Heh some like it but some don't. Can't this be optional?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Polish_notation

i knew it had to have some sort of connection to the polish!!! thanks for the link!!! it explains this entire new thought process i have embarked upon learning in the latter stages of my advanced years... you can teach an old dog new tricks, it just takes a really long time... the black jesus still hates this change...-0
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby agostino on Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:42 am

i love it, this is the best upgrade ever. it saves a lot of hassle when reinforcing.
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby psychobkrazy on Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:13 am

I like the change.
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby jbrettlip on Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:25 am

My turns keep timing out. I blame this change.
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby sully800 on Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:52 am

owenshooter wrote:
Thezzaruz wrote:It just feels strange because you're not used to it and thus is forming the sentence based on the old system and not on your actual thought process, I think we all can agree that the first choice we make is "from where" and then consider "how many". And this change actually makes it more intuitive now IMO.

no, it feels strange because it is counter intuitive and illogical. never in my life has my first choice been to thing "from where" and then to consider "how many". it is always "how many" and then "from where". now, if you are german, i will agree with you, just based on the language structure used in deutschland. other than that, no way this is more intuitive. again, as many others have said, it is counter intuitive and just upsets the flow of the game when you switch to fortifying. makes no sense to attack and then re-enforce in 2 seperate ways. zero sense... the black jesus has spoken...-0


I understand that its the way you form the sentence, which is partially because you've always done it that way....and partially because the current reinforcement sentence is much more awkward.

BUT think about how you actually conduct reinforcement. First you have to scan the map to find where the armies exist. Only then can you determine how many armies to move. Now the drop downs do the exact same thing, which is why the logic makes sense. I know the sentence structure is awkward and counter intuitive but I think we will get used to it.
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby lancehoch on Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:27 pm

sully800 wrote:I understand that its the way you form the sentence, which is partially because you've always done it that way....and partially because the current reinforcement sentence is much more awkward.

BUT think about how you actually conduct reinforcement. First you have to scan the map to find where the armies exist. Only then can you determine how many armies to move. Now the drop downs do the exact same thing, which is why the logic makes sense. I know the sentence structure is awkward and counter intuitive but I think we will get used to it.

Then should it be {From} {#} {To}? So the sentence structure would be "From Florida, fortify 10 troops to Georgia" (for the USA map).
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby owenshooter on Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:51 pm

lancehoch wrote:
sully800 wrote:I understand that its the way you form the sentence, which is partially because you've always done it that way....and partially because the current reinforcement sentence is much more awkward.

BUT think about how you actually conduct reinforcement. First you have to scan the map to find where the armies exist. Only then can you determine how many armies to move. Now the drop downs do the exact same thing, which is why the logic makes sense. I know the sentence structure is awkward and counter intuitive but I think we will get used to it.

Then should it be {From} {#} {To}? So the sentence structure would be "From Florida, fortify 10 troops to Georgia" (for the USA map).

i'd even settle for lance's response. even that is more intuitive than what is going on now. to attack and reinforce 2 totally different ways, just makes very little sense... -0
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby MoB Deadly on Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:10 pm

owenshooter wrote:
lancehoch wrote:
sully800 wrote:I understand that its the way you form the sentence, which is partially because you've always done it that way....and partially because the current reinforcement sentence is much more awkward.

BUT think about how you actually conduct reinforcement. First you have to scan the map to find where the armies exist. Only then can you determine how many armies to move. Now the drop downs do the exact same thing, which is why the logic makes sense. I know the sentence structure is awkward and counter intuitive but I think we will get used to it.

Then should it be {From} {#} {To}? So the sentence structure would be "From Florida, fortify 10 troops to Georgia" (for the USA map).

i'd even settle for lance's response. even that is more intuitive than what is going on now. to attack and reinforce 2 totally different ways, just makes very little sense... -0



I just wanna say I love how the box automatically sets to the max number of troops, but yeah I agree with most people that the order of the boxes now feel uncomfortable, I still have to check my fortification like 3 times to make sure its exactly what I want
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby lackattack on Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:12 pm

The order of boxes has to change, because the From selection determines the values in the To and Quantity menus.

lancehoch wrote:Then should it be {From} {#} {To}? So the sentence structure would be "From Florida, fortify 10 troops to Georgia" (for the USA map).


I can do that if people really find it better.

Alternatively, we can get rid of sentences and just have labelled menus e.g.

From: X To: X Quantity: X

But maybe the sentences are helpful for new players trying to figure out what is going on.
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby Optimus Prime on Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:17 pm

I say go with the order that lancehoch posted, it makes the most sense if the dropdowns do in fact have to change.
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby owenshooter on Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:17 pm

lackattack wrote:
lancehoch wrote:Then should it be {From} {#} {To}? So the sentence structure would be "From Florida, fortify 10 troops to Georgia" (for the USA map).


I can do that if people really find it better.

that would seem a bit more intuitive, and you have to keep the sentence or it would truly confuse not only new players, but old guys like myself...-0
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Re: Fortificateing Suggestion.

Postby Orwell on Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:57 pm

yeti_c wrote:It's a good idea - (I think it's already been suggested though)

Yes, I believe the language is similar to my suggestion
"(A) sends (#) troops to reinforce (B)"
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby krycekal on Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:15 am

Just wanted to thank everyone (from the suggesters to the implementers) for the awesome change in reinforcements. This is an awesome site and all the improvements that are made are very much appreciated. It is nice to have a site that listens to it's people and does all they can to help the make the playing all the more pleasurable.

Thank you again from a very appreciative player!!! =D>
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby PatXCore on Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:15 pm

ahhh, i hate that the # of fortifications is the last dropdown! for the first 2 games of mine that this was implemented in, i hit end fortification because i thought i was hitting end attack....i know this was my mistake....and it only happened twice....but fortifications were MUCH better when the number of armies was listed first.
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby Skitzobarber12 on Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:34 pm

You need to put the boxes back to normall...
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby sailorseal on Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:49 pm

Why is the amount box now on the right? So unnecessary! I have to retrain my hands, but for what purpose?!?
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby T7 on Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:04 pm

I came here to find out why such a crazy change was made.

Looks like a good idea got turned into a bad implimentation. Surely the order hasn't been dictated because of analysis of our thought structure, but so that the quantity of troops doesn't change after being the first thing selected, then a territory with less troops on it being selected. "Um, huh? I mean... oh yeah! It was after analysing the way we think... yeah, that's right, yep."

I agree with all the people saying it's frustrating, and with all the ideas to improve it - like Quantity: x... or Move x troops from x to x (had to throw that in there)... or Reinforce from: x Troops: x Reinforce to: x
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby wcaclimbing on Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:46 pm

Since we're suggesting how to rearrange the boxes, I'll add my suggestion in.

Put it back in the order it used to be.

I always think "Fortify # From X to Y" when I'm fortifying. It makes the most sense to me.
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Re: Fortification dropdowns (merged) [Done]

Postby jsnr75 on Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:10 am

Any way to just run a poll of premium members to gauge their preference? My problem is that the change is causing mistakes...and mistakes in forting are costly. Even if the new way is occasionally convenient...not sure its worth the cost.

Also...the change has rendered fortifying impossible in opera mini for me. Worked before, but the number dropdown doesn't work now.

So...front page poll?
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