Stop multis from playing (Merged) [Done]

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is turning busted multis armies into neutrals a good idea?

a resounding YES!!!
85
93%
a resounding HECK NO!!!!
6
7%
 
Total votes : 91

Re: Legitimate Player Protection

Postby Woodruff on Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm

GenuineEarlGrey wrote:
DarthBlood wrote:
Artimis wrote:There is also the option of a points reset for players caught in a multi infested game.

points reset...as in reset to what you were previously, or reset to 1000? if it's 1000, that's stupid and pointless...


Mmmmm.....
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That's exactly what we need...a big stick. Sadly, this site seems unwilling to even use a limp...<ahem>
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Re: Legitimate Player Protection

Postby stormbind on Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:42 pm

Rather than target user accounts, why not target the games? For example, when an game is determined to be infected, why not make the game an unrated one?

Does Cutesy*Club report these people to the user's ISP on the basis that they are interfering with the functionality of networked services and harassing other network users?
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Re: Legitimate Player Protection

Postby ender516 on Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:15 am

stormbind wrote:Does Cutesy*Club report these people to the user's ISP on the basis that they are interfering with the functionality of networked services and harassing other network users?

Very good point! Most ISP user agreements, if enforced, could put these multis out of business. Maybe the parents of these juvenile delinquents would do something if their network access was threatened by their child's behaviour. In fact, I believe there are some jurisdictions where such interference and harassment could lead to criminal charges. Lower the boom on them, CC!
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Re: Legitimate Player Protection

Postby owenshooter on Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:14 am

ender516 wrote: In fact, I believe there are some jurisdictions where such interference and harassment could lead to criminal charges. Lower the boom on them, CC!

they've done it before, i don't know why they won't do it now... maybe twill had the "set" required to go through with that serious of an action...-0
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multiple accounts

Postby amhowie on Wed May 06, 2009 2:32 am

why is there no way of ending the game when people get busted for multiple accounts???
i just dont get it. How can someone create multiple accounts, they go in and cheat, then gets caught cheating and the people who run conquer club can not just stop the game.

there must be something that can be done about this???
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Re: Prevent busted multi's from finishing games

Postby n8dog on Wed May 06, 2009 5:13 am

I've recently fallen victim to my first known instance of playing against a multi, not once, but twice in a few days. Pandev2 , tarutao2, paperyoga joined 2 open triple freestyle games with myself, amhowie and reggie_mac. You can read all about it here. They were busted and I had assumed that there were adequate policies that dealt with this, but today after searching the forum on this issue, I've afraid to say that I'm quite disgusted.

The only 'grey' areas that I've come across so far is when someone is either falsely accused or wrongly busted, but that's it.

I remember when I first signed up, the site said it only had 2 rules, no multiple accounts and no secret alliances. It even went further to say that multiple accounts were strictly forbidden, but after what I've read in the forums, that isn't the case. I'd like to be sarcastic for a moment and say that the first rule should read something like this:

If you create multiple accounts and get caught, you'll get the pleasure of being able to finish all the games that you are part of and are waiting to play. But because we kinda consider this illegal, you may wanna start quite a lot of games, because not everybody reads the forum, so you ca be assured that the games that appears to sit there forever, will in no doubt be joined by somebody less suspecting. You'll be able to use your unfair advantage to the max, and claim some points while you're at it. And to rub it in, brag about cheating in the game chat.


When there is absolutely no doubt that someone has created a multiple account and cheated, something should be done - for example, the user account is deleted (CC obviously has a 'user manager' console and I'd guess that there's even a little box that would allow you to search for a user. I'd even hazard the guess that beside there username an icon may be visible that would give an admin the ability to click it, and thus deleting the account or at least suspending the games they are in).

Allowing them to play on is bullshit. How does that fit under the definition of strictly forbidden? The current site stance as it stands practically condones this action. By not taking a firm stance as it is implied in the rules, you create/have created an environment that breeds cheating.
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Re: Prevent busted multi's from finishing games

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed May 06, 2009 1:50 pm

This may be higher up on Lack's priority list now, within the top few spots...expect more in a few weeks.


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Re: Prevent busted multi's from finishing games

Postby Timminz on Wed May 06, 2009 3:03 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:This may be higher up on Lack's priority list now, within the top few spots...expect more in a few weeks.


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The sooner, the better.
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Re: Prevent busted multi's from finishing games

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed May 06, 2009 3:20 pm

I wholeheartedly agree.


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Re: Prevent busted multi's from finishing games

Postby owenator on Wed May 06, 2009 4:00 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I wholeheartedly agree.


--Andy


I'm impressed with your attitude and your consistency for the betterment of CC to resolve most matters quickly Andy. =D>
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Re: multiple accounts

Postby Rocketry on Wed May 06, 2009 4:27 pm

I think it's at least partly a technical issue. Deleting games screws the server up or something.

Rocket.
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Re: multiple accounts

Postby Timminz on Wed May 06, 2009 4:29 pm

You guys both should look at the thread directly below this one.
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Re: Prevent busted multi's from finishing games

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed May 06, 2009 4:32 pm

Merged similar topics.


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Re: multiple accounts

Postby reggie_mac on Wed May 06, 2009 7:09 pm

Rocketry wrote:I think it's at least partly a technical issue. Deleting games screws the server up or something.

Rocket.


Nope, and you don't delete the game, they in effect become a 'corrupted game' im sure a few people have seen those a while back when there were alot of DB issues.

Bust someone, close there games down, if it turn out they were wrongly busted, let them play again.

If the norm is to not suspend accounts of people caught cheating immediately , then the rules and/or signup page need to state that if you are in a game with people who are caught cheating then you will still have to finish the game and may loose points..
Is this important? hell yes, i wouldn't have paid for 2 years of membership (or brought a year for a friend) if i knew that people who were caught cheating are only dealt with retroactively, and without points exchange being voided... which in effect means jack is done about cheating.

There are over 330,000 member on this site, and i guess maybe 10%-15% of those are gold member which means that it is now a 3/4 to 1 million dollar a year business. Don't tell me there is nothing you can do about it.
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Re: Prevent busted multi's from finishing games

Postby Bruceswar on Wed May 06, 2009 9:15 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:This may be higher up on Lack's priority list now, within the top few spots...expect more in a few weeks.


--Andy



It is about time! If a multi was busted and could not finish a game it would stop all these bogus accounts from targeting people.

Bravo! =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
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Re: Prevent busted multi's from finishing games

Postby n8dog on Sat May 09, 2009 4:52 pm

And yes, seeing as we were targeted in 2 games, I want my 72 points back please.
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players busted for cheating should immediately lose all game

Postby broncojd78 on Fri May 22, 2009 1:38 pm

i am in a 3 person assassin game. i thought they were cheating or maybe multis. i checked the cheating forums and saw that they busted for being multis. however, i am still going to lose this game to the one person playing under two IDs.

the reason being that anyone busted for being a multi is allowed to finish their current games.

i would like to propose that if a person is caught cheating, all IDs should immediately be booted from all games. boot them like they would be for missing too many turns.
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Re: players busted for cheating should immediately lose all game

Postby e_i_pi on Fri May 22, 2009 2:54 pm

I agree. It's a simple case of creating a script that piggybacks on the busting tool the hunters have, that finds all their games and runs the "deadbeat" script on each of them. The code is already there, just needs to be stitched together.
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Re: players busted for cheating should immediately lose all game

Postby broncojd78 on Fri May 22, 2009 3:12 pm

awesome! let's run it before i lose this game!
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Re: players busted for cheating should immediately lose all game

Postby owenator on Fri May 22, 2009 3:39 pm

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=68025 Already has been a long-running issue.
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Re: Turning Busted Multis Armies into Neutrals

Postby broncojd78 on Fri May 22, 2009 6:33 pm

if you ran a process on busted multis like you do deadbeats, then problem solved.
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Re: Turning Busted Multis Armies into Neutrals

Postby Woodruff on Fri May 22, 2009 9:09 pm

yeti_c wrote:
lancehoch wrote:
owenshooter wrote:question, when a person is busted for multiple accounts, why are they allowed to play out their games, possibly taking points off of members that are not cheats?
This is because the busted player still has the right to appeal. If they are cleared after a second look and they have done nothing wrong, then why should they have been forced to lose all of their active games?


As stated before - the people who successfully appeal are far outweighed by the people in the games that are ruined by having multi's that are still alive...

In fact the number of multi's will be outweighed heavily by the number of people in the games that they are ruining.

So - My point is - take the punishment away from the many and give it to the few - especially as 90% of those few are cheaters.
C.


As someone who is in 90+ games at a time routinely, I would be incredibly angry if I were found to be a multi (in error) only to be reinstated but having lost all of my games! Angry enough that I wouldn't return, quite honestly.

As much as I despite multi's, I agree with lancehoch on this one.
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Re: Turning Busted Multis Armies into Neutrals

Postby Woodruff on Fri May 22, 2009 9:12 pm

yeti_c wrote:
lancehoch wrote:
owenshooter wrote:exactly lance! so why not just turn them neutral instead of discussing deleting them? i love when people argue my points for me in round about ways! i knew you would see the light lance!!!-0

I guess I was slightly off topic there, but turning them neutral would have a similar effect as not letting the person take their turns (well, the same effect, just 72 hours sooner). The reason I do not like the idea is that there are people who are incorrectly busted (see the incident a few weeks ago where 50 people were wrongly busted by accident) and this does not allow them any leeway for clearing their names.


Agreed - but that is due to an error in the Bust system - and not the norm...

Without that specific issue involved (which should be fixed but hasn't been) the percentages far outweigh any potential "oh noes I got busted but I wasn't a multi" in comparison to "fucking multis stole my points again even though they got busted 2 weeks ago".

C.


Rules should be created to protect the minority, even if it means that some of the "criminals" may go free. This is basic to our system of law. To create a rule where the innocent are damaged is not a healthy rule.
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Re: Turning Busted Multis Armies into Neutrals

Postby broncojd78 on Fri May 22, 2009 10:16 pm

Woodruff wrote: To create a rule where the innocent are damaged is not a healthy rule.


that is exactly what's happening, though. i'm going to lose a game to a "busted" multi.

at my job, i make decisions on a daily basis. i am not allowed the luxury of making decisions anticipating being wrong. if i made a decision, my team trusts i am right. if someone is busted as being a multi, then i trust the multi hunter is right.

even as a player of 90 plus games at a time, could you not trust the mutli hunters to know that you are legit?
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Re: Turning Busted Multis Armies into Neutrals

Postby Woodruff on Fri May 22, 2009 10:25 pm

broncojd78 wrote:
Woodruff wrote: To create a rule where the innocent are damaged is not a healthy rule.


that is exactly what's happening, though. i'm going to lose a game to a "busted" multi.


Damage in one or possibly two games versus damage over ALL of your games? That's a tremendous difference in scope, and I think that is the key.

broncojd78 wrote:at my job, i make decisions on a daily basis. i am not allowed the luxury of making decisions anticipating being wrong. if i made a decision, my team trusts i am right. if someone is busted as being a multi, then i trust the multi hunter is right.


Humans make mistakes. Laws should be developed so that our human-ness does not CAUSE any more problems than necessary.

broncojd78 wrote:even as a player of 90 plus games at a time, could you not trust the mutli hunters to know that you are legit?


I DO trust that I'll never be found to be a multi, simply because I know that I am not one and nobody else in my household plays on ConquerClub (my wife is an infidel non-game-player!). However, mistakes DO happen. It's entirely within the realm of possibility that I could be found to be a multi incorrectly.
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