Stop multis from playing (Merged) [Done]

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is turning busted multis armies into neutrals a good idea?

a resounding YES!!!
85
93%
a resounding HECK NO!!!!
6
7%
 
Total votes : 91

Re: Turning Busted Multis Armies into Neutrals

Postby yeti_c on Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:15 am

Multi.

C.
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Re: Turning Busted Multis Armies into Neutrals

Postby owenshooter on Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:59 am

yeti_c wrote:Multi.

C.

ha!! i'm glad someone made it through that mess of a post. i gave up after the 53rd typo and grammatical error within the first few attempted sentences. i still think it is a great idea for people that are truly busted...-0
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Re: Turning Busted Multis Armies into Neutrals

Postby shanksdigs on Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:01 pm

OMG. Conquer Club is a database and gameserver, right? Why has every discussion I've read on this topic included some mention of the inability to delete users? If it is a database and a gameserver, deleting a user is completely functional, acceptable, and correct. This topic suggests turning the abuser into a neutral which is part of the way towards the right solution. Go all the way, delete abusers accounts and the games they entered. It MUST be easy to do considering that Conquer Club is a database and gameserver.

To continue to allow them to play only causes the following to happen:

-honest players get frustrated with Conquer Club and resort to playing heads up games or private games secluding themselves from competition against new players.
-same honest players may decide to bail on paying the annual fee as this kind of abuse continues to happen.
-the ranking and rating system of Conquer Club is null and void. Any system that allows for a cheater to improperly modify theirs or another player's ranking makes most rankings suspect. (Clearly some of the better players can be determined to be solid players based on years of winning and thousands of wins. That being said, how can any member know whether a brigadier got his ranking because of multis or other methods of cheating?)
-some players may resort to cheating to return themselves the points that they undeservedly lost...and chaos ensues. (I have read PMs and emails from fellow players who have decided to cheat to get their points back, so I know it happens.)
-good players get their points and ranking shot down for no good reason.

Essentially, I am saying that the only effective strategy for ending the cheating that is rampant on this system is to delete cheater's accounts. Send a message that says that "Conquer Club does not advocate cheating!"
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Re: Turning Busted Multis Armies into Neutrals

Postby yeti_c on Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:09 pm

Deleting data from a Database is generally considered a bad thing in the IT Trade...

In fact - it's one of the primary cornerstones of Database integrity.

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Re: Turning Busted Multis Armies into Neutrals

Postby Megadeth666 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:55 pm

So if a multi that got busted, and comes back and screws up games of the person that busted them, it is ok?

Because of some IT thing?...Don't know much how the program goes, but I have been screwed before from multis, and turning them neutral does seem like a logical answer.

Maybe not delete them, just postpone there moves till they lose....just like if your allowed to ban some one from chat , or playing some one, why can't you ban some one from doing a turn?
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Re: Turning Busted Multis Armies into Neutrals

Postby lancehoch on Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:12 pm

shanksdigs wrote:OMG. Conquer Club is a database and gameserver, right? Why has every discussion I've read on this topic included some mention of the inability to delete users? If it is a database and a gameserver, deleting a user is completely functional, acceptable, and correct. This topic suggests turning the abuser into a neutral which is part of the way towards the right solution. Go all the way, delete abusers accounts and the games they entered. It MUST be easy to do considering that Conquer Club is a database and gameserver.

As yeti points out, it has to do with the server integrity. If CC were to delete all of the games which involved someone who cheated, then a large percentage of the games which have been played would need to be deleted (just a guess, but I think 20% is a conservative number). This would affect more than just the games which are deleted. The resultant scores for every remaining game would have to be recalculated (at least those which finished after the first deleted game). This would absolutely kill the server, as scores are only kept as a current value. Also, the games which are missing logs could not be reversed. Also, if users were deleted, it would be impossible to prove who has previously held an account and the multi problems would compound.
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Re: Turning Busted Multis Armies into Neutrals

Postby owenshooter on Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:53 pm

lancehoch wrote:
shanksdigs wrote:OMG. Conquer Club is a database and gameserver, right? Why has every discussion I've read on this topic included some mention of the inability to delete users? If it is a database and a gameserver, deleting a user is completely functional, acceptable, and correct. This topic suggests turning the abuser into a neutral which is part of the way towards the right solution. Go all the way, delete abusers accounts and the games they entered. It MUST be easy to do considering that Conquer Club is a database and gameserver.

As yeti points out, it has to do with the server integrity. If CC were to delete all of the games which involved someone who cheated, then a large percentage of the games which have been played would need to be deleted (just a guess, but I think 20% is a conservative number). This would affect more than just the games which are deleted. The resultant scores for every remaining game would have to be recalculated (at least those which finished after the first deleted game). This would absolutely kill the server, as scores are only kept as a current value. Also, the games which are missing logs could not be reversed. Also, if users were deleted, it would be impossible to prove who has previously held an account and the multi problems would compound.

exactly lance! so why not just turn them neutral instead of discussing deleting them? i love when people argue my points for me in round about ways! i knew you would see the light lance!!!-0
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Re: Turning Busted Multis Armies into Neutrals

Postby lancehoch on Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:32 pm

owenshooter wrote:exactly lance! so why not just turn them neutral instead of discussing deleting them? i love when people argue my points for me in round about ways! i knew you would see the light lance!!!-0

I guess I was slightly off topic there, but turning them neutral would have a similar effect as not letting the person take their turns (well, the same effect, just 72 hours sooner). The reason I do not like the idea is that there are people who are incorrectly busted (see the incident a few weeks ago where 50 people were wrongly busted by accident) and this does not allow them any leeway for clearing their names.
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Re: Turning Busted Multis Armies into Neutrals

Postby yeti_c on Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:32 pm

lancehoch wrote:
owenshooter wrote:exactly lance! so why not just turn them neutral instead of discussing deleting them? i love when people argue my points for me in round about ways! i knew you would see the light lance!!!-0

I guess I was slightly off topic there, but turning them neutral would have a similar effect as not letting the person take their turns (well, the same effect, just 72 hours sooner). The reason I do not like the idea is that there are people who are incorrectly busted (see the incident a few weeks ago where 50 people were wrongly busted by accident) and this does not allow them any leeway for clearing their names.


Agreed - but that is due to an error in the Bust system - and not the norm...

Without that specific issue involved (which should be fixed but hasn't been) the percentages far outweigh any potential "oh noes I got busted but I wasn't a multi" in comparison to "fucking multis stole my points again even though they got busted 2 weeks ago".

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Re: Turning Busted Multis Armies into Neutrals

Postby shanksdigs on Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:45 pm

lancehoch wrote:
shanksdigs wrote:OMG. Conquer Club is a database and gameserver, right? Why has every discussion I've read on this topic included some mention of the inability to delete users? If it is a database and a gameserver, deleting a user is completely functional, acceptable, and correct. This topic suggests turning the abuser into a neutral which is part of the way towards the right solution. Go all the way, delete abusers accounts and the games they entered. It MUST be easy to do considering that Conquer Club is a database and gameserver.

As yeti points out, it has to do with the server integrity. If CC were to delete all of the games which involved someone who cheated, then a large percentage of the games which have been played would need to be deleted (just a guess, but I think 20% is a conservative number). This would affect more than just the games which are deleted. The resultant scores for every remaining game would have to be recalculated (at least those which finished after the first deleted game). This would absolutely kill the server, as scores are only kept as a current value. Also, the games which are missing logs could not be reversed. Also, if users were deleted, it would be impossible to prove who has previously held an account and the multi problems would compound.


Who cares about server integrity when the ranking and rating system's integrity becomes invalid? These people are allowed to come on to this game, create multis and/or chaos accounts and they wreak havoc on paying customers. The ranking system is invalid until a method is developed whereby cheaters accounts and games can be voided. Your response just encourages me to NOT renew when the annual fee time comes around again. Can anyone give me a good reason why I shoud renew? Every comment following mine just reaffirms the fact that I should not renew.
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Re: Turning Busted Multis Armies into Neutrals

Postby Bones2484 on Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:53 pm

shanksdigs wrote: Can anyone give me a good reason why I shoud renew?


Maybe that score doesn't matter for one thing other than ego?

Play the game, have fun. There will be people who take this too seriously and ruin a very very small number of games, but if you dwell on it you won't have a good experience overall.

Play in some tournaments, or create some tournaments. Join a clan and get involved in some clan wars.

There's much more than just playing an occasional game and worrying about rank.
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Re: Turning Busted Multis Armies into Neutrals

Postby lancehoch on Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:35 pm

shanksdigs wrote:Who cares about server integrity when the ranking and rating system's integrity becomes invalid?

If the server integrity were to become compromised, then there would be no rankings. The rankings are based off of the data saved on the server. If the data on the server is not continuous, what is to stop someone from saying "Hey, these 50 games just disappeared and I had 750 points from them. Give me my points back." No one can prove that the person was lying.
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Remove Multi's from Games "awaiting players"

Postby yeti_c on Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:20 am

Concise description:
  • Multi's that are busted should have any awaiting games dropped.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
  • Stop Multi's playing more games than they should even after busting - firther minimise annoyance to normal players.

Inspired by Freaky101 in this thread - viewtopic.php?f=239&t=68396

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Re: Remove Multi's from Games "awaiting players"

Postby Gunner1980 on Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:00 am

agree.
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Re: Remove Multi's from Games "awaiting players"

Postby mccallan25 on Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:43 am

great idea
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