Double Turns and Freestyle Turn Holding

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Double Turns and Freestyle Turn Holding

Postby Itrade on Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:26 am

JamesKer1 wrote:Double turns, a solution for those who timed out while taking a turn as well as allowing players to hold their freestyle turn until the last second, was once a feature of the site. Now that it has been removed due to extreme abuse, all threads pertaining to the removal or otherwise changing this feature have been merged here. A solution has been created by allowing opponents to begin their turn halfway through the round and by creating a one hour time limit on turns, and some of those suggestions have been merged in here as well by various moderators. -JamesKer1
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turn delay

Postby lackattack on Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:49 am

Here's the deal with turn delay: when the last player takes his turn, a new round begins and he/she can immediately take a second turn. You can take advantage of the double-turn to conquer a continent and earn the bonus before anyone has a chance to bust you. or take out a weak opponent before he/she gets a chance to play. that is arguably unfair.

So I put in a turn delay rule that makes you wait 180 minutes between turns, to give some time for other players login.

There is no turn delay on sequential games, because you can't take a double-turn in sequential.

So, should I remove turn delay? it could make double-turns a huge part of the strategy, but at least you cannot do two double-turns in a row. people won't be annoyed with having to wait.
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Postby destructo on Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:19 am

definitely dont remove it, if u could make an option to have turn delay on,that would be cool though,even though personally I hate it
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Postby Ran Taro on Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:10 pm

There definatley needs to be some mechanism to prevent double turns.

I would suggest that, rather than a delay, the game simply doesn't allow a player to take two turns in a row. The last player in each round's dot would be red at the start of the next round, and they can't play until someone else has made a move - at which point their dot turns green again.

If you wanted to get fancy, you could add another colour dot for this (orange?) or even mouse over text that says "Played last last round, cant play first this round". Else you could just add it to the rules page if that's too hard.
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Postby molestar on Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:22 pm

I disagree with changing it.

It should be a game option when creating the game, either allow double moves or disallow?

Anyone agree with that?
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Re: Turn delay

Postby Itrade on Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:39 am

Itrade wrote:Can we have an option to turn turn delay off?


Notice how I said an option and not asking for it to be removed entirely. You put it in for a reason but if some people disagree they should always be able to turn it off when creating a new game.
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turn delay

Postby lackattack on Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:43 am

You're right, turn delay can be a game option.

I also find Ran Taro's idea very interesting. Unlike turn delay, it will allow for quick rounds under 180 minutes.

So the rule can be "if you are the last to play in a round, you cannot be the first to play in the next round" and I can add a game option "Allow double-turns: Yes No"

Is this the ultimate solution or what?
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Postby molestar on Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:08 pm

whta?
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Re: turn delay

Postby Ran Taro on Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:51 am

lackattack wrote:You're right, turn delay can be a game option.

I also find Ran Taro's idea very interesting. Unlike turn delay, it will allow for quick rounds under 180 minutes.

So the rule can be "if you are the last to play in a round, you cannot be the first to play in the next round" and I can add a game option "Allow double-turns: Yes No"

Is this the ultimate solution or what?


I think so, why not give it a go, see how it works?
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Re: turn delay

Postby Itrade on Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:23 pm

lackattack wrote:You're right, turn delay can be a game option.

I also find Ran Taro's idea very interesting. Unlike turn delay, it will allow for quick rounds under 180 minutes.

So the rule can be "if you are the last to play in a round, you cannot be the first to play in the next round" and I can add a game option "Allow double-turns: Yes No"

Is this the ultimate solution or what?


Exactly what I was meaning. Excellent.
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Double Turns and Freestyle Turn Holding

Postby ZawBanjito on Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:58 am

JamesKer1 wrote:Double turns, a solution for those who timed out while taking a turn as well as allowing players to hold their freestyle turn until the last second, was once a feature of the site. Now that it has been removed due to extreme abuse, all threads pertaining to the removal or otherwise changing this feature have been merged here. A solution has been created by allowing opponents to begin their turn halfway through the round and by creating a one hour time limit on turns. -JamesKer1


Even if double turns are not allowed, sometimes it still effectively occurs. In a game I just played I took Europe, but was unable to defend it. My opponent (only one now remained) started his turn at once and positioned armies to take me out of the continent. However, before he could, I started my turn and got the 5 man bonus and pretty much ended the game. Then afterwards I felt bad about it, and now that I think about it I've done this (although with far less immediate impact) many times.

Even without double turns all you're waiting for is someone to START their next turn, so if you're quick you can still press/create an advantage equivalent to an actual double turn. This strikes me as not consistent with the spirit of the double turn prohibition.

I propose amending it so that the last player of a round cannot take their next turn until at least one other player has FINISHED theirs.

This would make a game with only two players remaining sequential.


For your kind consideration,

Zaw
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Postby Ran Taro on Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:11 am

I agree.

I also think that a (deadbeat) player missing a turn shouldn't count as the last player in a round. At the moment if you are the last active player who takes their turn in a round, you can effectively get a double turn - because the deadbeats turn will always come after you.

This strikes me as against the spirit of "no double turns".
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Postby ZawBanjito on Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:47 am

Oooh, didn't think of that one. Excellent point. I concur: that too seems like a fake double move.
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Postby lackattack on Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:52 am

Even without double turns all you're waiting for is someone to START their next turn, so if you're quick you can still press/create an advantage equivalent to an actual double turn. This strikes me as not consistent with the spirit of the double turn prohibition.

Okay, I agree with you on this. But what if the other players can attack and only end their turns 5 minutes before the end of round (locking you out for the round)?

I also think that a (deadbeat) player missing a turn shouldn't count as the last player in a round. At the moment if you are the last active player who takes their turn in a round, you can effectively get a double turn - because the deadbeats turn will always come after you.

To me, a double turn was when your turn triggers a new round and you go again immediately. That's not the same as a you->round expires->you move, which was not blocked. But I guess that players who wait untill 5 mins before end of round can effectively benefit from a double turn.

So, how's this for a solution? The last player to begin a turn in a round (whether or not everyone played that round) cannot take a second turn untill either (a) another player ends a turn or (b) 12 hours have passed.
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Postby molestar on Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:45 am

12 Hour rule RULES
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Opinion

Postby Datacup on Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:16 pm

I gave my opinion about this in another topic. I think that the game should not allow simultaneous playing. Or at least it should have an option that you could choose.

For me, it is very frustrating to play nervous because someone may be playing at the same time and taking the country I left weak but plan to fortify when I finish my attacks.

I don't like sequential game (each turn takes a lot of time) but I think that when someone starts his round, no one should play until he ends.

BTW, it would solve the problem of this topic. :)
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Postby lackattack on Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:13 pm

How would loking the game during his turn prevent a player from taking a double turn :?
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Postby LoGiFA on Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:12 pm

I think that the game should not allow simultaneous playing.


What if they decide to start and not play, thus locking you out.
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Postby ZawBanjito on Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:19 am

Okay, I see the problem, Lackattack...

Actually, I thought of another: In a three player game, if it's going fast, two players could move together and effectively keep the third always going last. So how about, if you go last in a turn (not including deadbeats) you can't move again until a) another player finishes their turn, b) 12 hours have passed, or c) two other players have started their turn.

This doesn't completely solve the original worry, but I believe it would considerably alleviate it. I don't want the chaos of simultaneous play to vanish because I enjoy it (sometimes.)

Datacup, perhaps when speed games are put in next month there won't seem such an issue, because you could have a sequential game and not have it take so long.
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Postby Ran Taro on Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:06 pm

What if they decide to start and not play, thus locking you out.


You'd have to have a limit on turn time (1hour?).
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Postby Datacup on Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:32 pm

lackattack, locking the game would prevent fake double turns because the last guy to play would have to wait the first guy of the next round finish his turn... so it wouldnt be a double turn ;)

I dont think simultaneous playing is exciting, but this is a personal opinion. If I am playing while I drink my morning coffee, I want to think about my steps and not rush to be faster than my enemy. :? Well... it seems that Im the minority about this subject hehehe :roll:
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Fortification Timer

Postby Dysmal on Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:52 am

I've noticed now that unfinished turns are becoming rampant.

I am now in 4 games where everyone played in the first hour, but we are forced to wait the full 24 hours since some people don't finish their fortication.

Would it be possible to implement a timer on your turn? Like if you begin your turn, you have 1 hour to finish it or it ends for you? Or if you end your attacks and are at the fortification stage, your turn ends after an hour?
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Postby lackattack on Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:05 pm

Hi Dysmal,
Conquer Club games are meant to be slow paced, and 1 turn a day is normal. But if a deadbeat misses too many turns (currently 4) he will get kicked out and then you won't have to wait for him anymore
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Postby apwessen on Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:08 pm

I think what he means is that people think their turn is over, but they still have to click end fortifications. I see this happening in my games too. Its not speeding anyone up, its just stopping people from not noticing that they still need to fortify. Its not something that should take too much longer after you have taken your turn.
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Postby Dysmal on Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:11 pm

That's exactly what I mean.

Some people are doing their turn...then thinking they're done and not coming back for a day.
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