Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns [Done]

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Postby Evil Semp on Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:26 pm

The trouble with the solution you described is if al the players on Team 1 gets to play before Team 2 gets a chance to play they can kill someone from Team 2 before they even get a turn. At least in freestyle they have a chance to play.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:29 pm

I agree with Semp, there are advantages and drawbacks to it all.


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Postby river-reids on Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:03 pm

wouldnt it just work... if one player misses a turn... that team still goes down as the last team to finish... hence not being able to start first..

thats what happens in team games, the last team to take there turn cant be the first to play the next turn. why cant it be like that if one of the team misses a turn?

what happened to sadistic and i is not fair and is not in the spirit of the game. we where in a good position to win that game.
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Postby Dlakavi on Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:21 am

Evil Semp wrote:The trouble with the solution you described is if al the players on Team 1 gets to play before Team 2 gets a chance to play they can kill someone from Team 2 before they even get a turn. At least in freestyle they have a chance to play.


The chances of that are really slim, and anyway, if team 2 knows each other they will all join at the same time and play before team 1, right?
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Postby Evil Semp on Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:28 pm

Dlakavi wrote:The chances of that are really slim, and anyway, if team 2 knows each other they will all join at the same time and play before team 1, right?


They way I understand the solution posted in this thread is Team 1 goes first then Team 2 which puts Team 2 at an extreme disadvantage. At least in freestyle the way it is played now both teams have a chance to go first.
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Postby Dlakavi on Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:33 pm

Yes, you undestand correctly.
But, when me and m friends join a freestyle, we join as team 2, and play right away, before anyone in team 1(they should be on the computer in those precise 5 minutes)

I dont know, i think that it should be tried for a couple of beta games (They dont have to be programmed, only 6 guys meet and play 10 games, in 5 games Team 2 waits for team 1 to complete a turn all the time and in 5 games the oposite)
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Fix for freestyle games give other team 5 mins to play trick

Postby stlcard1521 on Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:35 pm

You know how in freestyle games when it gets down to 2 players or in team games, some ass holes will wait till the last 5 minutes of a round to play their turn so you get screwed and lose your turn? why not only give that person maybe 12 or 16 hours or so to play their turn before opening it up and allowing both teams/opponentst to play their turn to get rid of that cheap trick? that way both sides have a reasonable amount of time to get their turn in, and i think it still preserves the "low involvement, be able to only spend 5 minutes a day" philosophy



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Postby SirSebstar on Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:19 am

a far simpler sulution would be to put the time to 48 hours for time to run out.
and after 24 the other team is allowed to play if you have not made a move...

deadbeats are annoying then, but at least you dont get shorted out playing.
i do my turns in the morning, with a 12 hour limit i dont get to sleep.
with 24 hours, i do!
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Postby MTA-M on Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:41 am

SirSebstar wrote:a far simpler sulution would be to put the time to 48 hours for time to run out.
and after 24 the other team is allowed to play if you have not made a move...

deadbeats are annoying then, but at least you dont get shorted out playing.
i do my turns in the morning, with a 12 hour limit i dont get to sleep.
with 24 hours, i do!


You could also only start the 24 hours from the moment you are able to play. So everybody has 24 hours to take their turn. So then it will have no use for someone to wait untill the last 5 minutes, because there opponents click will only start when they start their turn, and they won't have just 5 min, but still 24 hours.

Example: Player 1 was the last in a turn, and can't start the next round. The first other player takes his turn after 23 hours. The rest of the players have only 1 hour from then, but player 1 has 24 hours from that time.
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Postby sfhbballnut on Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:40 pm

It takes three turns to deadbeat, sort of a hard situation to pull off
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Postby spiesr on Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:35 pm

Or simply everyone can play in the last hour...at least it couldn't be abused that way, and if you do miis your turn you still get armies from the missed one so what's the problem?
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Postby sadistic on Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:19 pm

Here's a visual representation of what I see as the biggest / most surprising detail in freestyle.

In every freestyle game I've played, when team1 takes the last turn of a round it puts red circles next to each player on team1 so that team cannot begin to play their turn for the next round until any other player from another team begins their turn.

However there is a bug/exploit/tactic (whatever you want to call it) to get around this by having a player miss their turn, then take their next turn at the start of the next round. The instructions (though accurate) do not make this apparent.

Details available here:

http://s179269986.onlinehome.us/freestyle_exploit.htm
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Deliberately running out of time allowing back to back goes

Postby Bertros Bertros on Wed May 30, 2007 5:17 pm

If a player goes last in a freestyle round, and runs out of time, when the round increments he is able to go first in the next round allowing back to back turns. Presumably this is a bug as it is not intended for a player to have double turns in freestyle.

Have a look at http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=438410 notice Winkelried takes his turn last in Round 15 and then waits until he runs out of time and then starts Round 16 a minute after it increments.

Before someone starts wittering on about me not being in the game, RetsinaFrangipan is my girlfriend and I was watching when she took her turn and as its definitely a bug and as she doesn't really do the forum thing I decided to post about it.
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Postby hecter on Wed May 30, 2007 5:22 pm

It's a common strategy used in Freestyle. Solution: Play sequential.
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Postby Bertros Bertros on Wed May 30, 2007 5:25 pm

Yeah I do.... Somebody joined a Freestyle by accident... So maybe I'm being a little naive here... but isn't that cheating? I know Freestyle is mainly played by losers who like to use time rather than tactics to win but that particular tactic is pretty much blatent cheating...

Anyway a bug is a bug, apologies if its been posted before, I did a quick search and didnt find anything.
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Postby LLLUUUKKKEEE on Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:46 pm

They miss out on a card though if they do that, so let them.
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Postby iamjhing on Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:35 pm

this is still a glitch, and was most likely NOT intended when the game was made. It's a simple fix... late players can't go first in freestyle.
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Postby Sparqs on Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:50 pm

I think this is a more egregious problem than my rant about waiting for the next player to start and then jumping in for back-to-backs. In this case, you don't even have to sit there waiting for someone to start the next round - you know when your turn will time out.

You may miss a card, if it's a game with cards, but the bonus or strategic advantage may well outweigh that cost.

Sure, there will always be aspects of freestyle that reward optimal-timing play, but some of these problems are very unbalancing and easily addressed. I understand that a new style should fix this, but will things like this 'bug' (I honestly think this one is a bug) in current freestyle be addressed?
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Ending Turns in Freestyle

Postby Wwoody123 on Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:01 pm

* Suggestion Idea: When the last person doesn't end their turn in freestyle game and lets the clock run out, they cannot start the next turn.
* Specifics: Players who don't start a turn should be able to start the next turn, but if you have begun your turn, placed your armies, attacked, fortified, and just sit on your but because it's a no cards game or something, you shouldn't get to start the next turn.
* Why it is needed: Currently we have a protective measure to prevent someone in a freestyle game from going two turns in a row: if you were the last to play, you can't start the next turn. However, if you do start your turn but don't finish it, the game still allows you to begin the next round. I would assume this is because people who would be the last to play but miss their turn can still get in on the action, but people who did not miss their turn and then subsequently start the next round get a huge advantage.
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Postby lackattack on Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:21 pm

So if everyone is taking their turn when the round times out all players would then be locked out for 12 hours?
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Postby khazalid on Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:23 pm

makes sense to me..
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Postby Fire Mario on Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:30 pm

A reason that people would not finish their turns is probably in esclating games, they have four cards, and not want to be forced to turn in cards while their trade-in-value is still low. If they not end their turn, they don't get another card, and won't be forced to turn in a set.
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Postby Wwoody123 on Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:43 pm

lackattack wrote:So if everyone is taking their turn when the round times out all players would then be locked out for 12 hours?


First, in my experience this has never happened so I don't think that it would be an issue in all too many instances.

Second, I think that if my suggestion was implemented it would cause this to happen even more infrequently; people would know that they would have a great advantage by being able to go first and would actually end their turn.

Third, I think that the problem I brought up happens more often in speed games, meaning that the wait will be 2.5 minutes, not 12 hours.

Fourth, even if it was 12 hours, then I don't really see what the big deal is; people have games where there turns are starting and finishing all the time. If they can't afford to wait the 12 hours they should just end their turn in the first place.

Fifth, If the real worry here is that people are being forced to wait, I think it's even worse in the status quo because one person can force everyone to wait an entire turn, if my suggestion was implemented then at worst everyone would have control over the waiting.

Sixth, if you think that this instance would present a significant flaw in my suggestion, then I'm sure that the code can be altered to prevent that from happening.

Fire Mario wrote:A reason that people would not finish their turns is probably in esclating games, they have four cards, and not want to be forced to turn in cards while their trade-in-value is still low. If they not end their turn, they don't get another card, and won't be forced to turn in a set.


That is an alternate motive for why people would not end their turns and is absolutely true. Although my suggestion wouldn't *fix* the cards issue, it's not the problem that it's addressing in the first place but would at least mitigate the offensive power of someone using it for that purpose because they couldn't get a sneak attack in at the beginning of their next turn.

For everyone who voted 'Bad Idea' please feel free to provide your reasoning below and I will promptly dismiss your silliness :twisted:
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Postby wicked on Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:56 pm

I voted yes. 8) I agree if no one finishes their turn, than that's their own fault and they should have to wait. :wink:

But are there any more elegant solutions out there?
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Postby Wwoody123 on Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:19 am

lack, still thinking about it?
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