Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns [Done]

Suggestions that have made it through the grind, and have become integrated into the site!

Moderators: Suggestions Team, Global Moderators

Re: Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns

Postby cramill on Thu May 08, 2008 8:10 pm

I support this as well. See the link to the other thread at the end of treefiddy's post to see my arguments.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class cramill
 
Posts: 702
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:13 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Medals: 12
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (1)

Re: Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns

Postby poo-maker on Thu May 08, 2008 8:28 pm

God damnit, what is it with people trying to change things that others like. First classic, now freestyle...
Brigadier poo-maker
 
Posts: 1275
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:58 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Medals: 19
Conqueror Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)
General Achievement (2)

Re: Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns

Postby bbqpenguin on Thu May 08, 2008 8:59 pm

i strongly oppose this. double turns is just basic part of freestyle strategy. stopping this is akin to prohibiting teamates form taking turns at the same time, blocking, hedging, or any other basic strategy usable in any game. double turns simply takes advantage of the rules of a certain gametype; something which you should always do. if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. if you play freestyle regularly (which i don't), then you need to be prepared to take double turns, it helps you win. if you are unable to or don't like this strategy, then don't play freestyle.
Sergeant 1st Class bbqpenguin
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:11 am
Medals: 11
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)

Re: Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns

Postby cramill on Thu May 08, 2008 10:06 pm

bbqpenguin wrote:i strongly oppose this. double turns is just basic part of freestyle strategy. stopping this is akin to prohibiting teamates form taking turns at the same time, blocking, hedging, or any other basic strategy usable in any game. double turns simply takes advantage of the rules of a certain gametype; something which you should always do. if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. if you play freestyle regularly (which i don't), then you need to be prepared to take double turns, it helps you win. if you are unable to or don't like this strategy, then don't play freestyle.

I don't think you understand the argument. This should not be a legal tactic. Everything else that falls within the rules is fine. I don't think anyone will complain about teammates taking their turns at the same time unless they are complete idiots.

I'll quote this here for anyone who is too lazy to read the linked thread:
Page of Instructions wrote:In a freestyle game it doesn't matter in which order players take their turns. Players can even play simultaneously! After the last player takes his turn, a new round begins immediately. The player who triggers a new round is blocked from taking a second back-to-back turn and must wait until either an opponent begins their turn or half of the round passes.

This says that the last person to go in the round is blocked from taking a second back-to-back turn. Now, don't say that because you don't end your turn that doesn't trigger the new round, so you can start another turn right away. Thats the loophole that we want to get rid of. You chose to go last so you shouldn't be able to go first in the next round.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class cramill
 
Posts: 702
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:13 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Medals: 12
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (1)

Re: Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns

Postby treefiddy on Fri May 09, 2008 1:18 am

We can go back and forth on what we think is correct and what we don't. I view it as an exploit of sorts; and based on the response it was given by Fireside Poet in the Abuse forum lead me to believe that he couldn't identify if it getting a double turn like that was abuse or by design.

We should probably just wait for Lack or someone else in charge to determine if it's by design or not.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class treefiddy
 
Posts: 407
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 11:37 am
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (1)

Re: Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns

Postby yeti_c on Fri May 09, 2008 4:19 am

Double turns due to running out of time is a tactic that should be disallowed from the rules - claiming that it's a tactic is a load of shit and all of you :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: know it... very shocked at Poo Maker for his comments - I thought that you were better than that.

C.
Image
Highest score : 2297
User avatar
Lieutenant yeti_c
 
Posts: 9670
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:02 am
Medals: 46
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
General Achievement (1) Map Contribution (13) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (10)

Re: Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns

Postby poo-maker on Fri May 09, 2008 4:28 am

yeti_c wrote:Double turns due to running out of time is a tactic that should be disallowed from the rules - claiming that it's a tactic is a load of shit and all of you :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: know it... very shocked at Poo Maker for his comments - I thought that you were better than that.

C.

Yeti, the double turns in freestyle are what helps to make freestyle so much fun. Anyone and everyone can do it, so I don't see anything unfair about it.
Brigadier poo-maker
 
Posts: 1275
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:58 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Medals: 19
Conqueror Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)
General Achievement (2)

Re: Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns

Postby yeti_c on Fri May 09, 2008 4:36 am

poo-maker wrote:
yeti_c wrote:Double turns due to running out of time is a tactic that should be disallowed from the rules - claiming that it's a tactic is a load of shit and all of you :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: know it... very shocked at Poo Maker for his comments - I thought that you were better than that.

C.

Yeti, the double turns in freestyle are what helps to make freestyle so much fun. Anyone and everyone can do it, so I don't see anything unfair about it.


Exactly a reason why I don't play Freestyle... it doesn't make it fun for the people that don't use the loopholes... it just makes it a guaranteed way to lose.

C.

PS - congrats on Conqueror again.
Image
Highest score : 2297
User avatar
Lieutenant yeti_c
 
Posts: 9670
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:02 am
Medals: 46
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
General Achievement (1) Map Contribution (13) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (10)

Re: Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns

Postby Scott-Land on Fri May 09, 2008 4:43 am

poo-maker wrote:God damnit, what is it with people trying to change things that others like. First classic, now freestyle...



hehee.... are they talking about casual games or speed freestyle? i wouldn't mind that being a game type- it would be pretty interesting in speed games. can you imagine missing a card at the last second and then be a sitting duck for the next 2.5 minutes? think it would also make players more aware of their card count. downfall to this is that if you miss a turn entirely then what- same 2.5 minute penalty?
User avatar
Major Scott-Land
 
Posts: 2420
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:37 pm
Medals: 43
Conqueror Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (2)
Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (4) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (2) Map Contribution (1) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (1)

Re: Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns

Postby Thezzaruz on Fri May 09, 2008 4:58 am

bbqpenguin wrote:double turns is just basic part of freestyle strategy.


If that would be true then there wouldn't be any need for the "no back-to-back turns" rule that is set now would there???
User avatar
Lieutenant Thezzaruz
 
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:10 pm
Location: OTF most of the time.
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns

Postby poo-maker on Fri May 09, 2008 8:41 am

yeti_c wrote:
poo-maker wrote:
yeti_c wrote:Double turns due to running out of time is a tactic that should be disallowed from the rules - claiming that it's a tactic is a load of shit and all of you :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: know it... very shocked at Poo Maker for his comments - I thought that you were better than that.

C.

Yeti, the double turns in freestyle are what helps to make freestyle so much fun. Anyone and everyone can do it, so I don't see anything unfair about it.


Exactly a reason why I don't play Freestyle... it doesn't make it fun for the people that don't use the loopholes... it just makes it a guaranteed way to lose.

C.

PS - congrats on Conqueror again.

Fair enough... though, because of the loopholes, there are more tactics that you can use.

Ty btw.

Scott- i think they're talking about freestyle in general.... casual and speed
Brigadier poo-maker
 
Posts: 1275
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:58 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Medals: 19
Conqueror Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)
General Achievement (2)

Re: Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns

Postby poo-maker on Fri May 09, 2008 8:45 am

Btw, I have just read over the original suggestion again. Tbh, it wouldn't actually change speed freestyle that much... I mean, most of the best players can start 2 or 3 seconds after the round starts. Those using clicky maps can also start a fraction of a second after the round starts or a fraction of a second after the first person triggers their turn. There wouldn't be time to break them....
Brigadier poo-maker
 
Posts: 1275
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:58 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Medals: 19
Conqueror Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)
General Achievement (2)

Re: Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns

Postby yeti_c on Fri May 09, 2008 9:56 am

poo-maker wrote:Btw, I have just read over the original suggestion again. Tbh, it wouldn't actually change speed freestyle that much... I mean, most of the best players can start 2 or 3 seconds after the round starts. Those using clicky maps can also start a fraction of a second after the round starts or a fraction of a second after the first person triggers their turn. There wouldn't be time to break them....


Yes - but it would stop them from starting the turn though... therefore the next player could wait for a few hours if they wanted - and it's their decision - not the 'cheaters'...

C.
Image
Highest score : 2297
User avatar
Lieutenant yeti_c
 
Posts: 9670
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:02 am
Medals: 46
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
General Achievement (1) Map Contribution (13) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (10)

Re: Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns

Postby Thezzaruz on Fri May 09, 2008 10:24 am

poo-maker wrote:though, because of the loopholes, there are more tactics that you can use.


Not really though. This loophole brings a quite dominant strategy and hence it would reduce the amount of usable strategies atm.



poo-maker wrote:Those using clicky maps can also start a fraction of a second after the round starts or a fraction of a second after the first person triggers their turn. There wouldn't be time to break them....


Yea this isn't meant to change that, just stop people from taking 2 turns without giving someone else the chance to respond.
User avatar
Lieutenant Thezzaruz
 
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:10 pm
Location: OTF most of the time.
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns

Postby poo-maker on Fri May 09, 2008 11:34 am

Thezzaruz wrote:
poo-maker wrote:though, because of the loopholes, there are more tactics that you can use.


Not really though. This loophole brings a quite dominant strategy and hence it would reduce the amount of usable strategies atm.


I don't think its that dominant. If you're playing esc or flate rate, you have to make a sacrifice by skipping a card for this to work. Though, i agree that it is a v.dominant strategy in no cards. (due to bonuses being so important)

Do you guys have any ideas in mind as to what you would like a new rule to be? We definitely don't want a rule change that resembles anything like the old system where players would play at the last minutes. Leaving only a couple of minutes for their opponent to play in that round.
Brigadier poo-maker
 
Posts: 1275
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:58 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Medals: 19
Conqueror Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)
General Achievement (2)

PreviousNext

Return to Implemented Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Login