For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Suggestions that have made it through the grind, and have become integrated into the site!

Moderators: Suggestions Team, Global Moderators

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby GENERAL STONEHAM on Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:49 pm

6 month ban is a horrible punishment let alone a 3o day ban, especially considering the perma-bans being handed out for minor and yes repeated ones at that.

Paying members should receive no more than a 1 month ban, unless it has to do with a REAL CRIME such as racism. Criticizing or a simple flaming of a Moderator or one of their thin-skinned supporters is considered to be capital offense right now and that's silly.

Right now, the Moderators know the likely and usual suspects [repeat offenders] and always keep an eye on them to issue out harsh punishments.

What's wrong with a 30 day ban for repeat offenders? That will silence them into submission. My God, one wrong step and it's back to the 30 day ban! Pretty severe enough, at least I think so. The non-paying members, do what you want to them, they don't support C.C.

Create a Board of Review, made up of posters from all factions at C.C. and let them review all 30 day bans to see if it's a fair punishment. Right now, if you get under a skin of a Moderator with an axe to grind, it's bye-bye poster.

One more thing I'd like to add. Having posters banned from using their pm use is totally off the wall.

Regards,
General Stoneham
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class GENERAL STONEHAM
 
Posts: 649
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:05 pm
Location: EXILED, BANNED and INCARCERATED!
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (3)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby notyou2 on Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:36 pm

Please re-evaluate existing bans under current guidelines, its only fair and its the right thing to do.
User avatar
Lieutenant notyou2
 
Posts: 2992
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:09 am
Location: In the here and now
Medals: 39
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (3)
General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (4) Training Achievement (1)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby squishyg on Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:51 pm

This revision was a good next step and it's nice to see how change can happen in a relatively short period of time.

Kotaro wrote:That's bs Andy. Adding brand new rules and not applying them to the past offenders makes sense; they weren't aware they were breaking rules at the time. However, if someone changed how severe laws were, they wouldn't leave killers on death row if death row was now legalized; they would apply the current laws.


I do think that those perma-banned should be resentenced to 6 month bans under the new rules. Kotaro makes an excellent point.
User avatar
Captain squishyg
 
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:05 pm
Medals: 42
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (4)
General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (1) General Contribution (4)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby Night Strike on Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:10 pm

GENERAL STONEHAM wrote:Paying members should receive no more than a 1 month ban, unless it has to do with a REAL CRIME such as racism


Completely irrelevant. Just as you don't have to have premium to post on the forum, you shouldn't be allowed to buy a lesser punishment for the same offense.

Criticizing or a simple flaming of a Moderator or one of their thin-skinned supporters is considered to be capital offense right now and that's silly.


Simple flaming is simply against the rules. And those same rules spell out the punishment scale, which has now had the permanent forum ban removed.
Image
User avatar
Captain Night Strike
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 8643
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 79
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (11) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby Woodruff on Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:19 pm

GENERAL STONEHAM wrote:One more thing I'd like to add. Having posters banned from using their pm use is totally off the wall.


I agree, though I seem to recall it being said that the forum system made this unavoidable (I have no actual knowledge of whether that's true or not).
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4973
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby stahrgazer on Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:25 pm

MeDeFe wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:Hm, lets see what we've got so far:

Option 1
    For Minor Infractions, the Disciplinary levels would remain unchanged:
      Warning, 24 Hours, 72 Hours, 1 Week, 1 Month, Permanent
    Major/Severe Infractions would remain unchanged:
      Warning, 1 Month, Permanent
    (Keep in mind, these levels don't just include Forums, but Live Chat as well as gaming on the website as well).

    This is the system we have currently.
Option 2
    1
      For Minor Infractions, the Disciplinary levels would be as follows:
        Warning, 24 Hours, 72 Hours, 1 Week, 1 Month, 6 Months, Permanent
      Major/Severe Infractions would remain unchanged:
        Warning, 1 Month, Permanent

Option 3
    For Minor Infractions, the Disciplinary levels would be as follows:
      Warning, 24 Hours, 72 Hours, 1 Week, 1 Month, 6 Months
    Major/Severe Infractions would remain unchanged:
      Warning, 1 Month, Permanent

    We'd keep with the general current system we have no---no probationary periods, etc.

    If a user comes back after a 6 Month Vacation, if their next Infraction was a Minor Infraction they would be hit with another 6 Month Vacation, no matter the period of time elapsed from the last Vacation. If their next Infraction was instead a Major/Severe Infraction, it'd probably lead to a Permanent Vacation.

Option 4
    For Minor Infractions, the Disciplinary levels would be as follows:
      Warning, 24 Hours, 72 Hours, 1 Week, 1 Month, 6 Months
    Major/Severe Infractions would remain unchanged:
      Warning, 1 Month, Permanent

    Upon a user coming back after a 6 Month Vacation, if they go 6 months without a Minor or Major/Severe Infraction, their Disciplinary level could be bumped down to 1 Month for their next Minor Infraction. Should they then after those 6 months, have a Minor Infraction, they would get a 1 Month Vacation, and upon their return from the 1 Month Vacation, their next Minor Infraction would lead them to a 6 Month Vacation.

Then there are the even more radical schemes of sweeping rollbacks, but I don't think we can entertain any of those ideas at the current time.

Option 1 seems to have some current opposition, Option 2 is one proposed middle ground Option 3 is also a proposed middle ground, Option 4 is another proposed middle ground.

I think Option 4, however, may be getting to the point of making things too difficult or complex for a World Domination based gaming website.


--Andy



Option 4 is imo the best out of the listed since it addresses two problems, permanent bans for minor infractions and permanent records, but instead of a 6 month probation it should be a 1 month probation. And it should start counting after every ban.

The problems with permanent records have been pointed out as well, and the obvious remedy is that they need to go.



Agreed, on both these suggesteds (does that make option 5?)


Option 5
    For Minor Infractions, the Disciplinary levels would be as follows:
      Warning, 24 Hours, 72 Hours, 1 Week, 1 Month,
    Major/Severe Infractions would remain unchanged:
      Warning, 1 Month, Permanent

    Upon a user coming back after a 1 Month Vacation, if they go 6 months without a Minor or Major/Severe Infraction, their Disciplinary level could be bumped down to 1 Week for their next Minor Infraction. Should they then after those 6 months, have a Minor Infraction, they would get a 1 Week Vacation, and upon their return from the 1 Week Vacation, their next Minor Infraction within a 6-month period would lead them to a 1 Month Vacation.
Image
User avatar
Major stahrgazer
 
Posts: 1417
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:59 am
Location: Figment of the Imagination...
Medals: 56
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Bot Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (7)
Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (7)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby GENERAL STONEHAM on Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:14 am

Agreed, on both these suggesteds (does that make option 5?)


Option 5
For Minor Infractions, the Disciplinary levels would be as follows:
Warning, 24 Hours, 72 Hours, 1 Week, 1 Month,
Major/Severe Infractions would remain unchanged:
Warning, 1 Month, Permanent


Minor infractions, hmmmmm
Major/severe infractions, hmmmm

Who determines what is what? Maybe Moderator#1 says the incident is minor, while Moderator#2 says it's Major/severe. We have seen that many have received severe punishment for a minor incident.

Any new rules, should be followed with a blanket amnesty to all.


Regards,
General Stoneham
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class GENERAL STONEHAM
 
Posts: 649
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:05 pm
Location: EXILED, BANNED and INCARCERATED!
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (3)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby Mr Changsha on Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:54 am

Considering minor violations can be for as little as going off-topic (that's what I was given my 24 hour ban for), I fear for the creative life of GD if going off-topic five times = a 6 month ban.

Yikes!

Also, I find it hard to believe Andy comprehends just how long 6 months is. That's two thirds of a pregnancy, more than half of an academic year at university, an eighth of a President's term in office. Six months is a long time. Yet Andy is comfortable with banning a forum user for six months for going off topic five times?

I'm sorry, but if I had my pm's taken away from me for that amount of time I'd frankly quit.
Image
User avatar
Colonel Mr Changsha
 
Posts: 1658
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:42 am
Medals: 14
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (3)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby slowreactor on Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:01 am

Hmm... I'm not sure if someone asked this already, but what happens to members who were perma-forum-banned under the old scale? Do they still get a chance to come back if they only have repeated minor infactions?
Colonel slowreactor
 
Posts: 1373
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:34 pm
Location: Ithaca, NY
Medals: 60
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (11) Training Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (1)
General Contribution (2)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby GENERAL STONEHAM on Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:08 am

slowreactor wrote:Hmm... I'm not sure if someone asked this already, but what happens to members who were perma-forum-banned under the old scale? Do they still get a chance to come back if they only have repeated minor infactions?


There should be a blanket amnesty for all, after the new flogging laws are introduced.

Mr. Changsha is right, 6 months bans for just a minor violation and having your pm gone is plain wrong. 1 month ban is long enough, otherwise why would anyone renew their membership?

It's very apparent that we have Moderators and administrators that don't have a grasp on reality. The punishments being handed out don't fit the crime. It's a over-handed punishment system that has to be over-hauled. We need some real oversight on the punishment being handed out.

This progressive system of punishment is wrong and is handed out unevenly.

Regards,
General Stoneham
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class GENERAL STONEHAM
 
Posts: 649
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:05 pm
Location: EXILED, BANNED and INCARCERATED!
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (3)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:19 am

slowreactor wrote:Hmm... I'm not sure if someone asked this already, but what happens to members who were perma-forum-banned under the old scale? Do they still get a chance to come back if they only have repeated minor infactions?

Andy stated they would not be reviewed. I believe that is wrong, that anyone banned previously for anything but truly major issue should get a second chance. A "on shot.. you are out", perhaps, second chance, but a chance.

However, I think admin has spoken and no further changes will be made, now.
Corporal 1st Class PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2552
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby GENERAL STONEHAM on Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:28 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:
slowreactor wrote:Hmm... I'm not sure if someone asked this already, but what happens to members who were perma-forum-banned under the old scale? Do they still get a chance to come back if they only have repeated minor infactions?

Andy stated they would not be reviewed. I believe that is wrong, that anyone banned previously for anything but truly major issue should get a second chance. A "on shot.. you are out", perhaps, second chance, but a chance.

However, I think admin has spoken and no further changes will be made, now.



That would be a grave mistake not to review ALL perma-bans and those on shorter lengths of bans.

Change the rules of punishments, should be followed with a blanket amnesty for all.

Regards,
General Stoneham
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class GENERAL STONEHAM
 
Posts: 649
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:05 pm
Location: EXILED, BANNED and INCARCERATED!
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (3)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby Mr Changsha on Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:23 am

GENERAL STONEHAM wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
slowreactor wrote:Hmm... I'm not sure if someone asked this already, but what happens to members who were perma-forum-banned under the old scale? Do they still get a chance to come back if they only have repeated minor infactions?

Andy stated they would not be reviewed. I believe that is wrong, that anyone banned previously for anything but truly major issue should get a second chance. A "on shot.. you are out", perhaps, second chance, but a chance.

However, I think admin has spoken and no further changes will be made, now.



That would be a grave mistake not to review ALL perma-bans and those on shorter lengths of bans.

Change the rules of punishments, should be followed with a blanket amnesty for all.

Regards,
General Stoneham


Ah, but if you believe as I do that the escalating system was expressly designed to weed out the unruly, the anarchic and the unconventional under the guise of formality ("Look! There is a set system in place! How can we be doing anything untoward eh?") then you'll see why any they've so far managed to knock off are hardly going to be offered a resurrection. It would kind of defeat the point, wouldn't it?

Andy hoodwinked the community (again.. this after introducing the escalating system through the bigotory guidelines to give the illusion of consultation on that issue...do you remember Andy referring to that thread as evidence of consultation on this point and the forum saying WTF???) into framing this debate about shortening the ban from one year to six months. You would think that anyone with two brain cells to rub together would realise that in effect the bans mean the same thing...especially when you take into account that after the member comes back after his six months (assuming he really loved CC enough to bother) he would be one post away from being banned again for another six months. All this for minor infractions like going off-topic, for example.

Actually, that's a lie. No one gets banned for going off-topic. I should know, about 50% of my posts have been and continue to be off-topic. You actually get banned for laying into a moderator...andy then trawls through your posts for something 'technically in violation' and then bans you for that. How do I know? Because it finally occoured to me a few days after I got my ban that I had called (censored) a junior mod and a pen monitor in GD. A couple of days later I was on a ban. Timminz had a similar experience...

The upshot of all this is that this thread was an absolute waste of energy for a great many honest, trusting people. I mean how many posters actually wanted the six month ban for minor infractions? Any? Please stand up if you did!

The racism thread (Andy's great success so we were led to believe) was also an absolute waste of time too. That was contrived merely to get the community to agree to this escalting system under the pretense of fighting racism. A complete con job that. So many fell for it, sadly.

Finally, the strongest indicator that the forum as a whole is bloody furious with the admins on this site for insulting our collective intelligence is the nominations for OP's consultation group. Look who's getting nominated. Those of us who have consistantly stood up to the administration over the way they treat this forum and its members. Who will be placed in the group? You can be sure as hell it won't be me...
Image
User avatar
Colonel Mr Changsha
 
Posts: 1658
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:42 am
Medals: 14
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (3)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby Mr Changsha on Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:45 am

AndyDufresne wrote:Ahoy Folks,

Taking into account the public opinions in this topic (in addition to a number of others located in other topics), along with Team CC input, and lastly with Disciplinary Data History of Conquer Club, the Minor Infractions Disciplinary scale from this date forth will be as follows:

Warning, 24 Hour Vacation, 72 Hour Vacation, 1 Week Vacation, 1 Month Vacation, 6 Month Vacation* -- *with repeated 6 Month Vacations should any user conduct Minor Infractions upon their release from Vacation.

For now, we've decided to go without the more bulky and more difficult to track system of roll back probationary periods. With the current tools we have in place for Disciplinary Measures, I don't think we can efficiently, consistently, and approriately keep track of an extended system.

===============================

And because while doing Disciplinary Data History research, I found the results to be rather interesting, and I know the community is sometimes interested in hard number, I thought I would share some of the general data numbers with you all. Since January 2006:

  • Total of Permanent Website Vacations Issued to Date, excluding spambots/mutlis/misc: 51

    • Total of Permanent Website Vacations Issued to Date, brought about by Gaming Infractions: 41 of 51
    • Total of Permanent Website Vacations Issued to Date, brought about by Forum Infractions: 10 of 51

      • Total of Permanent Forum Vacations Issued to Date, excluding spambots/mutlis/misc, and those who've already reached a Permanent Website Ban: 17

===============

I'll be updating the Community Guidelines and other topics as necessary.


--Andy


Ok, I just went through the entire thread and the only poster who actually agrees with Andy is.........

Colton24!

colton24 wrote:nah it should be kinda like that but like this:
warning
24-hour ban
3-day ban
1-month ban
6-month ban
1-year ban
Get the bleep outta here ( we will take bribes of premuim :mrgreen: )
Get the bleep outta here ( no bribes :lol: )


That's it. Not one other person in this thread actually agreed with what's come out of this. Not one. Oh, JoshyBoy might have agreed with him, but he was winking at me so I took his post as humorous in its intent.

Andy, how do you justify this? Seriously...

andydufrense wrote:with repeated 6 Month Vacations should any user conduct Minor Infractions upon their release from Vacation.


By the way I think the quote above might just be the most kafka-esque thing I have ever read on CC. 'Repeated SIX MONTH vacations' What?????
Image
User avatar
Colonel Mr Changsha
 
Posts: 1658
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:42 am
Medals: 14
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (3)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby Night Strike on Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:08 am

Mr Changsha wrote:Andy hoodwinked the community (again.. this after introducing the escalating system through the bigotory guidelines to give the illusion of consultation on that issue...do you remember Andy referring to that thread as evidence of consultation on this point and the forum saying WTF???) into framing this debate about shortening the ban from one year to six months.


The escalating punishment system has always been in place. It just wasn't enforced to the letter because some people would get half a dozen various warnings before receiving a 24 hour vacation. Now that the scales are being followed more consistently (which was a previous complaint of the forum members), people get upset.
Image
User avatar
Captain Night Strike
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 8643
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 79
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (11) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:15 am

As mentioned, any roll back method would essentially be unmanageable to keep track of---with the current tools we have in place behind the scenes. I know Lack has planned updates for various behind the scenes things, however, he primarily likes to focus on things that have an impact on a the largest range of users (I.E. mostly game features or things for a large user base, like the Invite Feature for Premiums, and the Trial Pay for Freemiums).

For the most part, as you can see from some of the data that was posted, the largest majority of users on Conquer Club, frequenting the forums or not, have been able to survive and thrive under the Community Guidelines.

Conquer Club is a World Domination website---and we don't profess to be anything else.


--Andy
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class AndyDufresne
Retired Administrator
 
Posts: 25477
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: A Banana Palm in Zihuatanejo
Medals: 20
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) General Achievement (4) General Contribution (2)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby MeDeFe on Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:48 pm

Nightstrike, after having collected a little empirical data and gotten an overall impression of the punishment system I can say that it sucked. There's a reason people got upset with it. Several reasons in fact, they have been outlined in this thread as well as a few others.

Only one of the reasons has been addressed by the recent change, and not as decisively as most had hoped for.



AndyDufresne wrote:As mentioned, any roll back method would essentially be unmanageable to keep track of---with the current tools we have in place behind the scenes. I know Lack has planned updates for various behind the scenes things, however, he primarily likes to focus on things that have an impact on a the largest range of users (I.E. mostly game features or things for a large user base, like the Invite Feature for Premiums, and the Trial Pay for Freemiums).

For the most part, as you can see from some of the data that was posted, the largest majority of users on Conquer Club, frequenting the forums or not, have been able to survive and thrive under the Community Guidelines.

Conquer Club is a World Domination website---and we don't profess to be anything else.


--Andy

You should become a politician, Andy. Really, you could be highly successful. In this post you tell us that there are things we don't know, that these things may change in the future, that the most sensible system proposed in this thread is unmanageable with the tools you currently have (which we, btw, still don't know anything about) and that everything that is being done is done for the greater good for the greatest number of people.

You don't tell us anything substantial, though.

Even with the most barebone tools imagineable, namely, a list of a person's infractions and the ban/unban button, a rollback system as you call it is manageable. The button is already there, and I really hope you keep records and haven't just been guessing at how long a person's last ban was.


Without probationary periods to give people a chance to shorten their next ban, 6 months are far too long for minor infractions. Changsha quite eloquently described just what 6 months are, half a year for going off-topic or this undefined "trolling" is draconic, especially if it's 6 months for each infraction.

Furthermore, where do you draw the line between "common flaming" and "cyber-bullying/harassment"?
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
User avatar
Major MeDeFe
 
Posts: 8098
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:48 am
Location: Follow the trail of holes in other people's arguments.
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) General Achievement (3) General Contribution (7)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby GENERAL STONEHAM on Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:26 pm

MeDeFe wrote:Nightstrike, after having collected a little empirical data and gotten an overall impression of the punishment system I can say that it sucked. There's a reason people got upset with it. Several reasons in fact, they have been outlined in this thread as well as a few others.

Only one of the reasons has been addressed by the recent change, and not as decisively as most had hoped for.



AndyDufresne wrote:As mentioned, any roll back method would essentially be unmanageable to keep track of---with the current tools we have in place behind the scenes. I know Lack has planned updates for various behind the scenes things, however, he primarily likes to focus on things that have an impact on a the largest range of users (I.E. mostly game features or things for a large user base, like the Invite Feature for Premiums, and the Trial Pay for Freemiums).

For the most part, as you can see from some of the data that was posted, the largest majority of users on Conquer Club, frequenting the forums or not, have been able to survive and thrive under the Community Guidelines.

Conquer Club is a World Domination website---and we don't profess to be anything else.


--Andy

You should become a politician, Andy. Really, you could be highly successful. In this post you tell us that there are things we don't know, that these things may change in the future, that the most sensible system proposed in this thread is unmanageable with the tools you currently have (which we, btw, still don't know anything about) and that everything that is being done is done for the greater good for the greatest number of people.

You don't tell us anything substantial, though.

Even with the most barebone tools imagineable, namely, a list of a person's infractions and the ban/unban button, a rollback system as you call it is manageable. The button is already there, and I really hope you keep records and haven't just been guessing at how long a person's last ban was.


Without probationary periods to give people a chance to shorten their next ban, 6 months are far too long for minor infractions. Changsha quite eloquently described just what 6 months are, half a year for going off-topic or this undefined "trolling" is draconic, especially if it's 6 months for each infraction.

Furthermore, where do you draw the line between "common flaming" and "cyber-bullying/harassment"?


It's apparent, the Moderators and Administrators of C.C. want to continue to use a sledge hammer on a tack, instead of using a light touch of a finger to secure it.

As usual we have the Moderators and others from C.C. rounding their wagons in defense of their heavy-handed tactics against minor infractions. They seem to be drunk on the power to be able to exile the political dissidents of C.C.

Very sad and disappointing.

Regards,
General Stoneham
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class GENERAL STONEHAM
 
Posts: 649
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:05 pm
Location: EXILED, BANNED and INCARCERATED!
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (3)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby Woodruff on Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:35 pm

MeDeFe wrote:Even with the most barebone tools imagineable, namely, a list of a person's infractions and the ban/unban button, a rollback system as you call it is manageable.


Truthfully, it seems to me that a simple Excel spreadsheet with multiple accesses to it (for each of the mods/admins) would take care of it quite nicely. I would certainly be willing to create it for Andy, if he felt the technical know-how for it was missing (what can I say, I'm an Excel wizard).

MeDeFe wrote:Furthermore, where do you draw the line between "common flaming" and "cyber-bullying/harassment"?


For this, I don't think you CAN draw a line. It seems to me that there has to be some "human judgement" to make this sort of a determination.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4973
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby Timminz on Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:41 pm

Woodruff wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:Furthermore, where do you draw the line between "common flaming" and "cyber-bullying/harassment"?


For this, I don't think you CAN draw a line. It seems to me that there has to be some "human judgement" to make this sort of a determination.

Agreed, yet I feel that I could make the distinction clearly.
jay_a2j wrote:lets not be so quick to judge Hitler
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Timminz
 
Posts: 5565
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:05 pm
Location: At the store
Medals: 56
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (6) General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (1)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby EvilCookie on Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:16 pm

Why are these forums even so strict? Compared to other forums.
Private 1st Class EvilCookie
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:12 pm
Location: Canada

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby Artimis on Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:46 am

EvilCookie wrote:Why are these forums even so strict? Compared to other forums.


It wasn't always the case, it's a recent development(the last 4 months or so):

Subject: Flame Wars Removed

Hyasri wrote:Unlike the beautiful colo(u)r scheme we launched on April 1st as an April Fools joke, the removal of Flame Wars was no joke. We have given this a lot of thought and consideration and agree that Flame Wars no longer fits into the future vision for the site. It was becoming more clear that the flames were spilling out of that forum and taking up more moderation time to sort out.

We were also concerned about the unfriendly atmosphere this was generating for new people. I realise this will be an unpopular move with some of you, but I can assure you a lot of thought has gone into this.

Peace & Love will also be removed very shortly, that was fun while it lasted :P
==================================================
This post was sponsored by Far-Q Industries.

Far-Q Industries: Telling you where to go since 2008.
User avatar
Captain Artimis
 
Posts: 809
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:09 am
Location: Right behind ya!!! >:D
Medals: 34
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (4)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby owenshooter on Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:19 am

i find it very difficult to believe that you can't rescind DM's ban, especially since it was absolutely bogus... i mean, how difficult could it be for you to go back a few WEEKS and reconsider what it was that you guys did to DM for nothing more than playing with your minds and rules, and only breaking one of them (hint, he did not break a rule). stating that you won't roll back punishments for previous infractions is just ludicrous. you stated how few perma-bans are due to forum activity. how hard could it be for you create another admin, like hysari (hi! sorry!), and to re-evaluate each case and reconsider the perma-bans? great that a change has been made. unbending in your unwillingness to reconsider that team CC slayed a vibrant part/contributor to the forums over nothing more than the fact that he out foxed, outsmarted and bruised your egos... nice change, now you should reconsider looking back into all the forum bans, since there aren't that many, and it truly wouldn't take that much time to do...-0
Image
Krazy gurls love Cool-0!!!!
User avatar
Lieutenant owenshooter
 
Posts: 8729
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:01 pm
Location: Deep in the Heart of Tx
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (2)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby notyou2 on Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:56 pm

Are you going to institute banning of players that beat mods/admins in games?.....you may as well as that fits with current mod/admin behaviour
User avatar
Lieutenant notyou2
 
Posts: 2992
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:09 am
Location: In the here and now
Medals: 39
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (3)
General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (4) Training Achievement (1)

Re: For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

Postby GENERAL STONEHAM on Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:16 am

Blanket amnesty for all, except for multis and cheaters!

Regards,
General Stoneham
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class GENERAL STONEHAM
 
Posts: 649
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:05 pm
Location: EXILED, BANNED and INCARCERATED!
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (3)

PreviousNext

Return to Implemented Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Login