For Minor Infractions, 6 Months Max Vacation instead Perma

[AndyDufresne]

As mentioned, any roll back method would essentially be unmanageable to keep track of---with the current tools we have in place behind the scenes. I know Lack has planned updates for various behind the scenes things, however, he primarily likes to focus on things that have an impact on a the largest range of users (I.E. mostly game features or things for a large user base, like the Invite Feature for Premiums, and the Trial Pay for Freemiums).

For the most part, as you can see from some of the data that was posted, the largest majority of users on Conquer Club, frequenting the forums or not, have been able to survive and thrive under the Community Guidelines.

Conquer Club is a World Domination website---and we don't profess to be anything else.


--Andy

[MeDeFe]

Nightstrike, after having collected a little empirical data and gotten an overall impression of the punishment system I can say that it sucked. There's a reason people got upset with it. Several reasons in fact, they have been outlined in this thread as well as a few others.

Only one of the reasons has been addressed by the recent change, and not as decisively as most had hoped for.

As mentioned, any roll back method would essentially be unmanageable to keep track of---with the current tools we have in place behind the scenes. I know Lack has planned updates for various behind the scenes things, however, he primarily likes to focus on things that have an impact on a the largest range of users (I.E. mostly game features or things for a large user base, like the Invite Feature for Premiums, and the Trial Pay for Freemiums).

For the most part, as you can see from some of the data that was posted, the largest majority of users on Conquer Club, frequenting the forums or not, have been able to survive and thrive under the Community Guidelines.

Conquer Club is a World Domination website---and we don't profess to be anything else.


--Andy

You should become a politician, Andy. Really, you could be highly successful. In this post you tell us that there are things we don't know, that these things may change in the future, that the most sensible system proposed in this thread is unmanageable with the tools you currently have (which we, btw, still don't know anything about) and that everything that is being done is done for the greater good for the greatest number of people.

You don't tell us anything substantial, though.

Even with the most barebone tools imagineable, namely, a list of a person's infractions and the ban/unban button, a rollback system as you call it is manageable. The button is already there, and I really hope you keep records and haven't just been guessing at how long a person's last ban was.


Without probationary periods to give people a chance to shorten their next ban, 6 months are far too long for minor infractions. Changsha quite eloquently described just what 6 months are, half a year for going off-topic or this undefined "trolling" is draconic, especially if it's 6 months for each infraction.

Furthermore, where do you draw the line between "common flaming" and "cyber-bullying/harassment"?

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

Nightstrike, after having collected a little empirical data and gotten an overall impression of the punishment system I can say that it sucked. There's a reason people got upset with it. Several reasons in fact, they have been outlined in this thread as well as a few others.

Only one of the reasons has been addressed by the recent change, and not as decisively as most had hoped for.

As mentioned, any roll back method would essentially be unmanageable to keep track of---with the current tools we have in place behind the scenes. I know Lack has planned updates for various behind the scenes things, however, he primarily likes to focus on things that have an impact on a the largest range of users (I.E. mostly game features or things for a large user base, like the Invite Feature for Premiums, and the Trial Pay for Freemiums).

For the most part, as you can see from some of the data that was posted, the largest majority of users on Conquer Club, frequenting the forums or not, have been able to survive and thrive under the Community Guidelines.

Conquer Club is a World Domination website---and we don't profess to be anything else.


--Andy

You should become a politician, Andy. Really, you could be highly successful. In this post you tell us that there are things we don't know, that these things may change in the future, that the most sensible system proposed in this thread is unmanageable with the tools you currently have (which we, btw, still don't know anything about) and that everything that is being done is done for the greater good for the greatest number of people.

You don't tell us anything substantial, though.

Even with the most barebone tools imagineable, namely, a list of a person's infractions and the ban/unban button, a rollback system as you call it is manageable. The button is already there, and I really hope you keep records and haven't just been guessing at how long a person's last ban was.


Without probationary periods to give people a chance to shorten their next ban, 6 months are far too long for minor infractions. Changsha quite eloquently described just what 6 months are, half a year for going off-topic or this undefined "trolling" is draconic, especially if it's 6 months for each infraction.

Furthermore, where do you draw the line between "common flaming" and "cyber-bullying/harassment"?

It's apparent, the Moderators and Administrators of C.C. want to continue to use a sledge hammer on a tack, instead of using a light touch of a finger to secure it.

As usual we have the Moderators and others from C.C. rounding their wagons in defense of their heavy-handed tactics against minor infractions. They seem to be drunk on the power to be able to exile the political dissidents of C.C.

Very sad and disappointing.

Regards,
General Stoneham

[Woodruff]

Even with the most barebone tools imagineable, namely, a list of a person's infractions and the ban/unban button, a rollback system as you call it is manageable.

Truthfully, it seems to me that a simple Excel spreadsheet with multiple accesses to it (for each of the mods/admins) would take care of it quite nicely. I would certainly be willing to create it for Andy, if he felt the technical know-how for it was missing (what can I say, I'm an Excel wizard).

Furthermore, where do you draw the line between "common flaming" and "cyber-bullying/harassment"?

For this, I don't think you CAN draw a line. It seems to me that there has to be some "human judgement" to make this sort of a determination.

[Timminz]

Furthermore, where do you draw the line between "common flaming" and "cyber-bullying/harassment"?

For this, I don't think you CAN draw a line. It seems to me that there has to be some "human judgement" to make this sort of a determination.

Agreed, yet I feel that I could make the distinction clearly.

[EvilCookie]

Why are these forums even so strict? Compared to other forums.

[Artimis]

Why are these forums even so strict? Compared to other forums.

It wasn't always the case, it's a recent development(the last 4 months or so):

Subject: Flame Wars Removed

Unlike the beautiful colo(u)r scheme we launched on April 1st as an April Fools joke, the removal of Flame Wars was no joke. We have given this a lot of thought and consideration and agree that Flame Wars no longer fits into the future vision for the site. It was becoming more clear that the flames were spilling out of that forum and taking up more moderation time to sort out.

We were also concerned about the unfriendly atmosphere this was generating for new people. I realise this will be an unpopular move with some of you, but I can assure you a lot of thought has gone into this.

Peace & Love will also be removed very shortly, that was fun while it lasted

[owenshooter]

i find it very difficult to believe that you can't rescind DM's ban, especially since it was absolutely bogus... i mean, how difficult could it be for you to go back a few WEEKS and reconsider what it was that you guys did to DM for nothing more than playing with your minds and rules, and only breaking one of them (hint, he did not break a rule). stating that you won't roll back punishments for previous infractions is just ludicrous. you stated how few perma-bans are due to forum activity. how hard could it be for you create another admin, like hysari (hi! sorry!), and to re-evaluate each case and reconsider the perma-bans? great that a change has been made. unbending in your unwillingness to reconsider that team CC slayed a vibrant part/contributor to the forums over nothing more than the fact that he out foxed, outsmarted and bruised your egos... nice change, now you should reconsider looking back into all the forum bans, since there aren't that many, and it truly wouldn't take that much time to do...-0

[notyou2]

Are you going to institute banning of players that beat mods/admins in games?.....you may as well as that fits with current mod/admin behaviour

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

Blanket amnesty for all, except for multis and cheaters!

Regards,
General Stoneham

[owenshooter]

when is andy coming back? or is that it? ducking the obvious questions about how this pertains to DM and a few others that don't deserve perma-bans?-0

i find it very difficult to believe that you can't rescind DM's ban, especially since it was absolutely bogus... i mean, how difficult could it be for you to go back a few WEEKS and reconsider what it was that you guys did to DM for nothing more than playing with your minds and rules, and only breaking one of them (hint, he did not break a rule). stating that you won't roll back punishments for previous infractions is just ludicrous. you stated how few perma-bans are due to forum activity. how hard could it be for you create another admin, like hysari (hi! sorry!), and to re-evaluate each case and reconsider the perma-bans? great that a change has been made. unbending in your unwillingness to reconsider that team CC slayed a vibrant part/contributor to the forums over nothing more than the fact that he out foxed, outsmarted and bruised your egos... nice change, now you should reconsider looking back into all the forum bans, since there aren't that many, and it truly wouldn't take that much time to do...-0

[MeDeFe]

I think he's hoping we'll get bored and let this die, or, alternatively, that we'll bump this thread so often that it will at some point be declared to have gone "off-topic" and be locked.

[squishyg]

Ahoy Folks,

Taking into account the public opinions in this topic (in addition to a number of others located in other topics), along with Team CC input, and lastly with Disciplinary Data History of Conquer Club, the Minor Infractions Disciplinary scale from this date forth will be as follows:

Warning, 24 Hour Vacation, 72 Hour Vacation, 1 Week Vacation, 1 Month Vacation, 6 Month Vacation* -- *with repeated 6 Month Vacations should any user conduct Minor Infractions upon their release from Vacation.

For now, we've decided to go without the more bulky and more difficult to track system of roll back probationary periods. With the current tools we have in place for Disciplinary Measures, I don't think we can efficiently, consistently, and approriately keep track of an extended system.

===============================

And because while doing Disciplinary Data History research, I found the results to be rather interesting, and I know the community is sometimes interested in hard number, I thought I would share some of the general data numbers with you all. Since January 2006:

• Total of Permanent Website Vacations Issued to Date, excluding spambots/mutlis/misc: 51
  
  
  • Total of Permanent Website Vacations Issued to Date, brought about by Gaming Infractions: 41 of 51
    
  • Total of Permanent Website Vacations Issued to Date, brought about by Forum Infractions: 10 of 51
    
    
    • Total of Permanent Forum Vacations Issued to Date, excluding spambots/mutlis/misc, and those who've already reached a Permanent Website Ban: 17

===============

I'll be updating the Community Guidelines and other topics as necessary.


--Andy

Andy, is it possible for you to review the cases of the 10 users who were perma-banned for forum violations and re-evaluate them based on the new guidelines? While I understand how busy you must be, if 2 cases are reviewed a week you could get through them in 5 weeks.

[notyou2]

That sounds VERY reasonable Squishy....good suggestion

[AndyDufresne]

Andy, is it possible for you to review the cases of the 10 users who were perma-banned for forum violations and re-evaluate them based on the new guidelines? While I understand how busy you must be, if 2 cases are reviewed a week you could get through them in 5 weeks.

Those cases were quite extreme cases. The users involved were all either vacationed for: Extreme bigotry/hate speech, or they had forum violations in addition to a large number of multiple accounts repeatedly, or they there were engaged in taking down the website.


--Andy