Conquer Club

stahrgazer wrote:
No, I said INDIVIDUAL. I corrected you.
Right now, it's NOT "illegal" for an individual to do those things, but this change wants to make it impossible for teams to do so.

If it's not illegal for individuals, it shouldn't be impossible for teams.

And I pointed out that this comparison made absolutely no sense. Inviting inactive players to games doesn't matter in 1v1 games, because it can't abuse naive players in any way (there's a specific harm in the case of team games - that they'll be paired up with someone they can't effectively play with, and the "preying" team will get an easy win; this harm is non-existent in individual games, because how well the naive players do is based on how good they are, and only that). I don't even understand how you could possibly think the two situations are equivalent.

Metsfanmax wrote:

stahrgazer wrote:
No, I said INDIVIDUAL. I corrected you.
Right now, it's NOT "illegal" for an individual to do those things, but this change wants to make it impossible for teams to do so.

If it's not illegal for individuals, it shouldn't be impossible for teams.

And I pointed out that this comparison made absolutely no sense. Inviting inactive players to games doesn't matter in 1v1 games, because it can't abuse naive players in any way (there's a specific harm in the case of team games - that they'll be paired up with someone they can't effectively play with, and the "preying" team will get an easy win; this harm is non-existent in individual games, because how well the naive players do is based on how good they are, and only that). I don't even understand how you could possibly think the two situations are equivalent.

If the player is truly inactive, the invite will expire.

If the player accepts the invite, only those who want to team with the player will also enter the game. If they accept invites blindly, so be it. AT LEAST in a team game, the new-to-map player has a chance that the other player knows the map, even if the players do not know they mesh well together.

I play with new teams all the time, to find OUT if I play effectively with the other. And you know what? I bet YOU do, too. It's how it's done. I can't see how you possibly think the situation the OP described is any worse.

And I can't believe you think that to invite a new player to a map he doesn't know is favorable to inviting members of a team who may or may not know the map to play with other members who may or may not know the map. At least in a team environment they have more regions to ask, "what does that one hit?" And... as CC admins and mods have consistently said, "they do NOT have to join."

UNLESS it's "new recruits" being systematically farmed, CC admin and mods have consistently said, so what? Since CC admin and mods consistently say, 'so what?" this change should not occur.

stahrgazer wrote:If the player is truly inactive, the invite will expire.

If the player accepts the invite, only those who want to team with the player will also enter the game. If they accept invites blindly, so be it. AT LEAST in a team game, the new-to-map player has a chance that the other player knows the map, even if the players do not know they mesh well together.

This isn't about the person who is inactive; it's about the newbie who sees a team game with one open slot and joins it, thinking maybe they have a chance, and then finding out that they've unintentionally joined a game with much more experienced players who are trying to game them out of some points. While you are correct that CC doesn't really care about that, as long as the players involved are not New Recruits who are systematically being lured to these games, the point is that these teams are doing it because they know that if they don't do it, a good team will join and they won't have nearly as easy of a time getting points. These players are trying to cheaply avoid playing good teams, and hurting inexperienced players in the balance. Is it farming? No. But it's still a case of abuse of the system.

I play with new teams all the time, to find OUT if I play effectively with the other. And you know what? I bet YOU do, too. It's how it's done. I can't see how you possibly think the situation the OP described is any worse.

Well, I don't really play team games that much, so I don't do that. But to address your point, if that's what these players were doing, that would be fine. But they're not looking, necessarily, to find new teammates to play with.

And I can't believe you think that to invite a new player to a map he doesn't know is favorable to inviting members of a team who may or may not know the map to play with other members who may or may not know the map. At least in a team environment they have more regions to ask, "what does that one hit?" And... as CC admins and mods have consistently said, "they do NOT have to join."

I wasn't talking about inviting new players to maps. I was just talking about the use of the invite system to block full teams from joining maps; the new player who joins may or may not have been invited by the deceptive team.

So how long before this great idea is implemented?

There still seems to be a lot of differing points about what should be done, if anything.

I for one support the idea, although it's of low priority to me. If it helps cut down on hurting inexperienced players, I'm all for it.

I think I know where you are coming from. You see a game you might like or start one as a “Public” game. Someone else joins in and hijacks it so “YourFriend” can play also. I can perfectly understand this, but locking down the game for 24 hours makes everyone wait.

Why not set the timeout on a public invite to just 1 hour. That gives you plenty of time to contact YourFriend so they can join. If YourFriend can’t get to the computer in that time, “You” can sit there and wait for the timeout and invite them again. The rest of us do not have to wait for 24 hours

PapaGeek wrote:I think I know where you are coming from. You see a game you might like or start one as a “Public” game. Someone else joins in and hijacks it so “YourFriend” can play also. I can perfectly understand this, but locking down the game for 24 hours makes everyone wait.

Why not set the timeout on a public invite to just 1 hour. That gives you plenty of time to contact YourFriend so they can join. If YourFriend can’t get to the computer in that time, “You” can sit there and wait for the timeout and invite them again. The rest of us do not have to wait for 24 hours

I dislike this. Because many people get invite when they are at work, while they are sleeping, school, etc. It would be near impossible for some members to invite friends to games due to time differences.

And this was raised more because of a problem that occurred, where a player was inviting inactive players to doubles or team games (Only one slot) so that no established teams could join the game.

So, on the one hand we have people who join as a team and invite one inactive player to to the opposing side a game to make it impossible for another team to join and give them some real competition. The invite expires after 24 hours, during that time some random players may have joined. If none have, a new invite can be sent out.

On the other side we have people who either play very seldomly and thus often register as "inactive", or people who have left the site and come back upon seeing an invite, either from someone they know or from some random person.



How about a compromise? Instead of making it impossible to send invites to people who are "inactive", make it impossible to invite someone to the opposing side in team games. I suppose this might interfere with Tournaments to some degree, but PMs worked well enough for quite some time, and maybe it could be made possible to invite people to Tournament games at creation.

Metsfanmax wrote:This isn't about the person who is inactive; it's about the newbie who sees a team game with one open slot and joins it, thinking maybe they have a chance, and then finding out that they've unintentionally joined a game with much more experienced players who are trying to game them out of some points. While you are correct that CC doesn't really care about that, as long as the players involved are not New Recruits who are systematically being lured to these games, the point is that these teams are doing it because they know that if they don't do it, a good team will join and they won't have nearly as easy of a time getting points. These players are trying to cheaply avoid playing good teams, and hurting inexperienced players in the balance. Is it farming? No. But it's still a case of abuse of the system.

If CC doesn't consider it to be illegal, farming or abuse for individual games then I don't see why it should be seen as such for team games either.

MeDeFe wrote:How about a compromise? Instead of making it impossible to send invites to people who are "inactive", make it impossible to invite someone to the opposing side in team games. I suppose this might interfere with Tournaments to some degree, but PMs worked well enough for quite some time, and maybe it could be made possible to invite people to Tournament games at creation.

I don't believe it would impact tournaments, since the Tournament Organizer (the one making the tournament games) would be sending invites to BOTH sides of the aisle. Not only that, it could easily be programmed to "not apply" to tournament games.

yer i think it can be programmed as such to only apply to public games...u arent really farming in private/tourny games (esp now that clan games are tourny games)...and its kinda obvious if you are...good idea medefe

Just trying to get a feel as to where the community is on this suggestion. Would you rather prevent inactive players from being invited to games, or to prevent invitations to the opposing side in team games?

blakebowling wrote:Just trying to get a feel as to where the community is on this suggestion. Would you rather prevent inactive players from being invited to games, or to prevent invitations to the opposing side in team games?

The first option, IMO.

i would support that inactive players cannot be invited to games, in particular teamgames

There seems to be a consensus here.

Submitted

I was not even aware of this being used as a tactic. I only read the first page and the last page and a half, but it appears to me that the problem is that players invite a single player to the other side to ensure that no other teams that are scouting for open team games will join. Then the game gradually gets filled up with new players who sign up as individuals and are less likely to be part of a good team. Finally, the invite expires and a third player also joins as an individual. This seems like a really cheap tactic that can only really be used to ensure a low level of competition. If this fix is easily implemented, I support it fully.

I also don't see a problem if (for ease of implementation) it is linked to the scoreboard. If that means that a returning player has to finish a game before receiving invites, then that is a small price to pay. There are plenty of ways for those players to get into games during or before their first completed game without an "invitation."

shouldn't this be moved to Implemented?

greenoaks wrote:shouldn't this be moved to Implemented?

Yes. MOVED

chapcrap wrote:

greenoaks wrote:shouldn't this be moved to Implemented?

Yes. MOVED IMPLEMENTED!!

Fixed

not working
Game 12992777
3 inactive players got invite to this game ? one of which was guested

Automatic tournaments (Conquer Cup and the Havoc Boards) aren't subject to that restriction. It is probably necessary for it to be so, as the auto games would probably get stuck or something if it was prevented from adding inactive players. Now the way players were added to this tournament clearly was a mistake on some level, but that isn't this suggestion.