Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferring'

Suggestions that have been inactive for a long period of time.

Moderators: Suggestions Team, Global Moderators

Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferring'

Postby stahrgazer on Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:32 am

Concise description: Deferred spoils
    Reprogram spoils so that they are tabulated at the end of any successful assault, but not granted until the start of the player's next turn - held in limbo, similar to "deferred troops" when players miss turns.

Specifics/Details:
  • Currently, spoils are granted only when the player hits "end turn".
  • For escalating, refusal to end turn can prevent a player from a 5th card for the fastest cash.
  • For nuclear, refusal to end turn can prevent a player from a 5th card and forced nuke of himself.
  • These are both similar in nature to the old system where refusal to end turn resulted in a Freestyle player being the first up in the next round.
  • Current C&A reports are saying this refusal to end turn (which unnecessarily prolongs the game) isn't 'cheating' because the folks are just using what the system program allows, and are not INTENDING to prolong the game (even though they ARE unnecessarily prolonging the games to do this, and prolonging the games unnecessarily is against CC rules)

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • This change will take away the ability to use cheap tactics for spoils, by ensuring that a player must accept spoils and cash if spoils were earned.
  • Programming spoils to be earned at the end of assaults but granted at the start of a player's turn will prohibit another potential cheap tactic: refusal to take a turn that might result in undesired cashes.
  • Will be more consistent with prior rulings (aka freestyle doubleturn) and fixes that ultimately prevented a "cheap tactic" from being used to manipulate the game.
Image
User avatar
Captain stahrgazer
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:59 am
Location: Figment of the Imagination...
Medals: 52
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (6) Tournament Contribution (1)
General Contribution (7)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:51 pm

Seems like a pretty good idea to me. The cash at the end of turn idea is more consistent with real Risk gameplay, but there's no reason why this particular aspect of it has to match up, if there are no negatives to changing the reward time.

One potential problem is that the server has to remember that you earned a card for a long time, before actually granting it to you.
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3692
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Timminz on Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:58 pm

Neat idea. Quite a bit like Castle Risk. I really don't like your use of the word "reprogram" though. Making this change to all games with spoils would be ridiculous. For one, not getting your cards until the beginning of the next turn would mean that no one would ever be sitting with 5 between their turns. This would be a MONUMENTAL change, and one that I (and anyone who enjoys escalating games, likely) would detest.

I like the idea about forcing a card onto people who "forget" to end their turn.
jay_a2j wrote:lets not be so quick to judge Hitler
User avatar
Captain Timminz
 
Posts: 5500
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:05 pm
Location: At the store
Medals: 55
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (6) General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (1)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Foxglove on Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:06 pm

haha, welllll it would certainly add an element of surprise if a player wasn't able to find out if they have a set or not until they begin their turn.

Seems like a very poor idea to me. How can you plan a turn in a team game (or standard game!) if you don't know what your cards are?
Brigadier Foxglove
Beta Team Member
Beta Team Member
 
Posts: 1196
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:05 pm
Medals: 57
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)
Tournament Achievement (7) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (11) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (6)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:13 pm

Timminz wrote:Neat idea. Quite a bit like Castle Risk. I really don't like your use of the word "reprogram" though. Making this change to all games with spoils would be ridiculous. For one, not getting your cards until the beginning of the next turn would mean that no one would ever be sitting with 5 between their turns. This would be a MONUMENTAL change, and one that I (and anyone who enjoys escalating games, likely) would detest.

I like the idea about forcing a card onto people who "forget" to end their turn.


The OP says that the card is "tabulated" after the assault. That means the only change to the system is that you don't require an ended turn to earn a card. Nothing else would change; you'd still know what your card was before your next turn, because the card would display in your spoils as soon as you end your turn (either by clicking 'end turn' or by running out of time).
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3692
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Timminz on Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:29 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:The OP says that the card is "tabulated" after the assault. That means the only change to the system is that you don't require an ended turn to earn a card. Nothing else would change; you'd still know what your card was before your next turn, because the card would display in your spoils as soon as you end your turn (either by clicking 'end turn' or by running out of time).

stahrgazer wrote:Concise description: Deferred spoils
    Reprogram spoils so that they are tabulated at the end of any successful assault, but not granted until the start of the player's next turn - held in limbo, similar to "deferred troops" when players miss turns.
jay_a2j wrote:lets not be so quick to judge Hitler
User avatar
Captain Timminz
 
Posts: 5500
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:05 pm
Location: At the store
Medals: 55
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (6) General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (1)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:02 pm

Timminz wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:The OP says that the card is "tabulated" after the assault. That means the only change to the system is that you don't require an ended turn to earn a card. Nothing else would change; you'd still know what your card was before your next turn, because the card would display in your spoils as soon as you end your turn (either by clicking 'end turn' or by running out of time).

stahrgazer wrote:Concise description: Deferred spoils
    Reprogram spoils so that they are tabulated at the end of any successful assault, but not granted until the start of the player's next turn - held in limbo, similar to "deferred troops" when players miss turns.


The fact that you don't "have" your card doesn't mean you don't know what you're going to get. If you have a problem with the wording of the OP, then we can just ask stahrgazer to edit it to simply say that you get a card whether or not you end your turn before you run out of time. After all, that's the intent of this suggestion.
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3692
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby rdsrds2120 on Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:49 pm

If I'm understanding this right, you basically want to award cards to those that run out of time as well, granted they've done what's required to get a card normally?
I like that idea. I hate lagging at the end of a speed game where I need a card. It really affects my gameplay.

Metsfanmax wrote:One potential problem is that the server has to remember that you earned a card for a long time, before actually granting it to you.


I don't think that it would make a HUGE deal.
Right now I think that the system checks to see if you've successfully attacked/bombarded then awards a spoil upon ending your turn.
Instead of doing that, you can do the same thing and just have the check happen when you press 'Begin Turn' on the following. Holding one boolean value on the game is nothing compared to everything else that it stores.
Even if that's now hot it happens, it wouldn't be hard to store a boolean value of getting a card true or false, but I'm not a web developer. Up to turtle.
Image
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class rdsrds2120
Retired Administrator
 
Posts: 7223
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:42 am
Medals: 90
Conquer Cup Bronze Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (3) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Battle Royale Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) General Achievement (9)
Clan Achievement (7) Training Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (4) General Contribution (9)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Woltato on Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:48 pm

Surely only a slight change is needed here. award spoils at the end of a players turn whether they have run out of time or clicked to end their turn normally.

I think this would also improve speed games where sometimes you run out of time accidentally due to the lag and slowness of CC server.
User avatar
Brigadier Woltato
 
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:09 pm
Location: Bingley, UK
Medals: 37
Monthly Leader Silver (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2)
Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Polymorphic Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (5)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Woodruff on Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:34 pm

stahrgazer wrote:Concise description: Deferred spoils
    Reprogram spoils so that they are tabulated at the end of any successful assault, but not granted until the start of the player's next turn - held in limbo, similar to "deferred troops" when players miss turns.

Specifics/Details:
  • Currently, spoils are granted only when the player hits "end turn".
  • For escalating, refusal to end turn can prevent a player from a 5th card for the fastest cash.
  • For nuclear, refusal to end turn can prevent a player from a 5th card and forced nuke of himself.
  • These are both similar in nature to the old system where refusal to end turn resulted in a Freestyle player being the first up in the next round.
  • Current C&A reports are saying this refusal to end turn (which unnecessarily prolongs the game) isn't 'cheating' because the folks are just using what the system program allows, and are not INTENDING to prolong the game (even though they ARE unnecessarily prolonging the games to do this, and prolonging the games unnecessarily is against CC rules)

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • This change will take away the ability to use cheap tactics for spoils, by ensuring that a player must accept spoils and cash if spoils were earned.
  • Programming spoils to be earned at the end of assaults but granted at the start of a player's turn will prohibit another potential cheap tactic: refusal to take a turn that might result in undesired cashes.
  • Will be more consistent with prior rulings (aka freestyle doubleturn) and fixes that ultimately prevented a "cheap tactic" from being used to manipulate the game.


Yep, makes sense to me.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4881
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby eddie2 on Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:13 pm

i like this it will stop things like this happening

Game 6255223

if i remember correct it happened by one player a total of 7 or 8 times straight
Image
User avatar
Sergeant eddie2
 
Posts: 3812
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:56 am
Location: jersey channel islands
Medals: 72
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (4) General Achievement (5) Clan Achievement (9)
Tournament Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby NightWolf on Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:34 am

I do believe it would be helpful to force players to draw a card after their turn. I have had problems more than once of not getting a card in a speed game simply because I was being too slow.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class NightWolf
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:04 pm
Location: Largo, Florida
Medals: 15
Standard Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (1)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:53 pm

rdsrds2120 wrote:Instead of doing that, you can do the same thing and just have the check happen when you press 'Begin Turn' on the following. Holding one boolean value on the game is nothing compared to everything else that it stores.
Even if that's now hot it happens, it wouldn't be hard to store a boolean value of getting a card true or false, but I'm not a web developer. Up to turtle.


Problem here is, if they were to hand out cards when "Begin Turn" Is pressed, what happens if a player misses a turn? Will it be assigned when he gets back? If so, this could be a bit of a problem, as someone may have pegged him off for his cards to get a 5 set, but instead of getting 5 for the elimination, he would only get 4.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class TheForgivenOne
 
Posts: 5154
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 8:27 pm
Location: Lost somewhere in the snow. HELP ME
Medals: 82
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (4) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (14) Clan Achievement (6)
General Contribution (11)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Metsfanmax on Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:21 pm

TheForgivenOne wrote:
rdsrds2120 wrote:Instead of doing that, you can do the same thing and just have the check happen when you press 'Begin Turn' on the following. Holding one boolean value on the game is nothing compared to everything else that it stores.
Even if that's now hot it happens, it wouldn't be hard to store a boolean value of getting a card true or false, but I'm not a web developer. Up to turtle.


Problem here is, if they were to hand out cards when "Begin Turn" Is pressed, what happens if a player misses a turn? Will it be assigned when he gets back? If so, this could be a bit of a problem, as someone may have pegged him off for his cards to get a 5 set, but instead of getting 5 for the elimination, he would only get 4.


Yeah, this is reason enough not to have cards assigned at the beginning of your next turn. Let's just make the suggestion "get a card no matter what" and stick with it. Is that okay stahrgazer?
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3692
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby MrBenn on Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:13 pm

It would make a lot of sense to be awarded a card (if you have successfully captured a territory) at the moment your turn ends, regardless of whether you have clicked the "end reinforcements" button, or simply run out of time. I don;t see it would be that hard to code.

However, at the moment it is a valid strategy (albeit one that could be seen as 'cheap') to avoid collecting a card in nukes (or even to delay cashing in a set of them mid-turn to avoid wiping yourself or a partner out). I can see less of a reason why you would want to use it in an escalating game though?
Image
PB: 2661 | He's blue... If he were green he would die | No mod would be stupid enough to do that
User avatar
Lieutenant MrBenn
Retired Team Member
 
Posts: 7059
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:32 am
Location: Off Duty
Medals: 67
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (2)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (1) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (2) General Contribution (15)

Next

Return to Archived Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Login