Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferring'

Suggestions that have been inactive for a long period of time.

Moderators: Suggestions Team, Global Moderators

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:22 pm

MrBenn wrote:However, at the moment it is a valid strategy (albeit one that could be seen as 'cheap') to avoid collecting a card in nukes (or even to delay cashing in a set of them mid-turn to avoid wiping yourself or a partner out).


It's only valid because it's allowed. I think OP's point is that since such tactics are indeed cheap, we should insert code to make them impossible.

I can see less of a reason why you would want to use it in an escalating game though?


It can make sense in many circumstances. If every player has 4 cards and it's your turn, if you get a card it most likely means that you're going to cash the first set, making your set worth at least 11 less troops than the player who goes right before you. If you hold off on cashing, you aren't forced to turn in the least valuable set.
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 41
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (6)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby natty dread on Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:02 am

Yeah no one wants to cash the first set.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 13258
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: fucked off
Medals: 49
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (12) Map Contribution (12) General Contribution (7)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby eddie2 on Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:44 am

the whole point of this is why should players get 2 attack and not cash there are players that do this validly by just deploying then ending there shot. and others who attack then just time out. abusing the system.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class eddie2
 
Posts: 3813
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:56 am
Location: jersey channel islands
Medals: 72
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (4) General Achievement (5) Clan Achievement (9)
Tournament Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby amazzony on Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:38 am

Sounds fair, at least as much as I understand it O:) Going into details ain't my kind of thing but the overall idea is something that needs to get done to remove another way how to abuse the game.
Image
"Thou shalt accept thy dice rolls as the will of the Gods" (Church of Gaming)
"amazzony is a beast" (Woodruff)
User avatar
Lieutenant amazzony
 
Posts: 10868
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:58 pm
Medals: 113
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Tournament Achievement (26) General Achievement (5) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (32) General Contribution (4)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Darwins_Bane on Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:19 pm

yes but the you would have a different type of abuse to consider. what happens if 5 players have 5 cards each in escalating? you can't just force them to take a card. how do you make them cash? do you cash for them? what order of cashing is fair since the comp does it all?
high score : 2294
02:59:29 ‹Khan22› wouldn't you love to have like 5 or 6 girls all giving you attention?
10/11/2010 02:59:39 ‹TheForgivenOne› No.
Corporal Darwins_Bane
 
Posts: 990
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:09 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Medals: 33
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) General Achievement (1)
General Contribution (4)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby tkr4lf on Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:47 am

Darwins_Bane wrote:yes but the you would have a different type of abuse to consider. what happens if 5 players have 5 cards each in escalating? you can't just force them to take a card. how do you make them cash? do you cash for them? what order of cashing is fair since the comp does it all?

I believe the game forces you to cash in spoils if you have 5 of them. I could be wrong on this, but I think I am correct.
User avatar
Major tkr4lf
 
Posts: 1374
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:35 am
Location: Austin, TX
Medals: 63
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (4)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (11) Tournament Contribution (14)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby wolfpack0530 on Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:51 am

Benn, no way in hell that is a valid strategy!!! When your turn ends, you get a goddamn card!! period. the fact that CC would even allow this loophole to exist and be exploited is detestable and makes CC look like it accepts cheating or in this case quasi-cheating (not all game choices give this strategy and unfair advantage, which is the term i am using to define cheating in this case).

The fact that CC still wont change it, knowing this, makes them look like cowards.

and those that still defend this with talking points are looking like mindless lackey fools

whatever happened to: just do what is right and fair?? does CC even care about fair anymore??? CC backing the current dice would suggest they dont at all, this is just another example.

make this suggestion happen!!
Captain wolfpack0530
 
Posts: 869
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:23 am
Location: Shady Thickets, where it is warm and moist
Medals: 71
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (12) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (18)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Darwins_Bane on Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:03 pm

saying that something should be stopped is all well and good, but there has been no real suggestion on what should be done to replace the current system. And before going off like you did, why don't you read my previous post about the consequences of implementing this suggestion. Don't get me wrong, when someone lets time run out to get a better cash or not take a card, i foe them.
high score : 2294
02:59:29 ‹Khan22› wouldn't you love to have like 5 or 6 girls all giving you attention?
10/11/2010 02:59:39 ‹TheForgivenOne› No.
Corporal Darwins_Bane
 
Posts: 990
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:09 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Medals: 33
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) General Achievement (1)
General Contribution (4)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:39 pm

Darwins_Bane wrote:saying that something should be stopped is all well and good, but there has been no real suggestion on what should be done to replace the current system.


Sure there has been. It's in the first post of this thread.

And before going off like you did, why don't you read my previous post about the consequences of implementing this suggestion. Don't get me wrong, when someone lets time run out to get a better cash or not take a card, i foe them.


Your scenario doesn't make sense. Players can't hold five cards during their assault phase.
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 41
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (6)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby stahrgazer on Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:54 pm

Timminz wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:The OP says that the card is "tabulated" after the assault. That means the only change to the system is that you don't require an ended turn to earn a card. Nothing else would change; you'd still know what your card was before your next turn, because the card would display in your spoils as soon as you end your turn (either by clicking 'end turn' or by running out of time).

stahrgazer wrote:Concise description: Deferred spoils
    Reprogram spoils so that they are tabulated at the end of any successful assault, but not granted until the start of the player's next turn - held in limbo, similar to "deferred troops" when players miss turns.


Very simply, Timminz.. I wanted to give nay-sayers something to negate. Suggesting they not receive the card till the beginning of next turn does that... while making the point that if they earned the card, they should get it, always; they should not be able to cheat the system to "not get it" nor should they lose the card they already earned if they legitimately ran out of time to hit "end turn". It would be more consistent with the way CC wrote its rules, too... the rules don't say, "You earn a card when you conquer a region and end your turn," they say you earn a card when you conquer a region; you just don't get it until the end of your turn, which should be one of two things: you ended your turn or the clock ran out.

Cards that weren't awarded at "end turn," because "end turn" wasn't depressed, are held until the "start turn" is pressed.
Image
User avatar
Captain stahrgazer
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:59 am
Location: Figment of the Imagination...
Medals: 52
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (6) Tournament Contribution (1)
General Contribution (7)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:14 pm

So your idea was to make your suggestion worse so that people could criticize it?

If you don't change it to say that the card is received at the end of the turn, I'm just going to make my own suggestion that does say that, because it's far superior.
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 41
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (6)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Darwins_Bane on Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:36 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Darwins_Bane wrote:saying that something should be stopped is all well and good, but there has been no real suggestion on what should be done to replace the current system.


Sure there has been. It's in the first post of this thread.

And before going off like you did, why don't you read my previous post about the consequences of implementing this suggestion. Don't get me wrong, when someone lets time run out to get a better cash or not take a card, i foe them.


Your scenario doesn't make sense. Players can't hold five cards during their assault phase.


Yes you can, you begin your turn and you have 5 cards. then you have to cash. In freestyle escalating, a rather cheap strategy has come around ( mostly in speed games), whereby you start your turn, then the round ends, so you still have 5 cards, but everyone else had to cash. how would your suggestion fit into this?
high score : 2294
02:59:29 ‹Khan22› wouldn't you love to have like 5 or 6 girls all giving you attention?
10/11/2010 02:59:39 ‹TheForgivenOne› No.
Corporal Darwins_Bane
 
Posts: 990
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:09 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Medals: 33
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) General Achievement (1)
General Contribution (4)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:39 pm

Darwins_Bane wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Darwins_Bane wrote:saying that something should be stopped is all well and good, but there has been no real suggestion on what should be done to replace the current system.


Sure there has been. It's in the first post of this thread.

And before going off like you did, why don't you read my previous post about the consequences of implementing this suggestion. Don't get me wrong, when someone lets time run out to get a better cash or not take a card, i foe them.


Your scenario doesn't make sense. Players can't hold five cards during their assault phase.


Yes you can, you begin your turn and you have 5 cards. then you have to cash. In freestyle escalating, a rather cheap strategy has come around ( mostly in speed games), whereby you start your turn, then the round ends, so you still have 5 cards, but everyone else had to cash. how would your suggestion fit into this?


Well, this suggestion doesn't change anything about the status quo in that regard, because it only changes the time at which you receive new cards you earn.
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 41
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (6)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby stahrgazer on Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:22 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:Well, this suggestion doesn't change anything about the status quo in that regard, because it only changes the time at which you receive new cards you earn.

It would change the status quo in that regard. Under this suggestion, you would not be able to avoid getting a card just by not hitting "end" at the end of your turn. If you failed to hit "end" you'd get it at the start of your next turn, which would auto-force the cash.

Not assaulting to avoid a spoil is one thing. Using a program glitch to avoid getting the spoil is correctable. This suggestion is aimed at correcting that correctable glitch. This suggestion also ensures that someone who qualifies for a spoil but whose system messes up, or whose time ran out, could still get their earned spoils. Both of these reasons are "pro" a change.

The only con would be, people who want to cheat the system by avoiding taking the spoil after they technically won a spoil, would be unable to continue to cheat the system that way. That's only a con if you like a strategy that cheats the system.
Image
User avatar
Captain stahrgazer
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:59 am
Location: Figment of the Imagination...
Medals: 52
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (6) Tournament Contribution (1)
General Contribution (7)

Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:09 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:Well, this suggestion doesn't change anything about the status quo in that regard, because it only changes the time at which you receive new cards you earn.

It would change the status quo in that regard. Under this suggestion, you would not be able to avoid getting a card just by not hitting "end" at the end of your turn. If you failed to hit "end" you'd get it at the start of your next turn, which would auto-force the cash.

Not assaulting to avoid a spoil is one thing. Using a program glitch to avoid getting the spoil is correctable. This suggestion is aimed at correcting that correctable glitch. This suggestion also ensures that someone who qualifies for a spoil but whose system messes up, or whose time ran out, could still get their earned spoils. Both of these reasons are "pro" a change.

The only con would be, people who want to cheat the system by avoiding taking the spoil after they technically won a spoil, would be unable to continue to cheat the system that way. That's only a con if you like a strategy that cheats the system.


You seem to have misread the scenario. In the case in question, the player never assaulted a territory, and thus he never earned a card. Therefore your suggestion doesn't change what happens in that case.
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 41
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (6)

PreviousNext

Return to Archived Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Login