NO DICE

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Postby CrabNebula on Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:07 pm

No randomness, no fun. I'd rather play Chess then.
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Postby owenshooter on Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:12 pm

*shaking my head in disbelief*
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Postby Coleman on Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:40 pm

I think you are looking for a Diplomacy website. I don't think that would work for this one. :(
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Postby owenshooter on Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:52 pm

Coleman wrote:I think you are looking for a Diplomacy website.(


now, THAT is funny... i had that game on the original atari system... i burned the graphics into our tv and eventually fried the system out, because i could never finish a game and turn it off!! that was before a such thing as SAVING games (kids are spoiled today). i wonder if there is really a "diplomacy" game site. i haven't thought of that game in ages!!! coleman, THANKS!!!-0
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Postby Audax on Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:48 pm

And if you have the requisite more than one more pieces, how many do you lose by attacking?


You both lose the same amount. So if 5 attack 3, 1 moves in, as 3 are lost by both parties. What this means is you really have to think about every position on the board.

In fact, all the games I have played have never really laster much longer than a no cards game.

I would also put it forward, as so very many seem to have a problem with the 'random' dice here, so get rid of the dice for those that want.

Good idea Fruitcake
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Postby Fruitcake on Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:09 pm

I would also put it forward, as so very many seem to have a problem with the 'random' dice here, so get rid of the dice for those that want.


Amen to that.

Thanks for the support Audax. Seriously, it is a good game for those that find the way the dice roll here a little odd. I must admit to that myself QED I put this idea forward.
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Postby moz976 on Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:21 pm

Moved over to suggestions forum. It seems like I've heard of this one before but can't find the thread.
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Postby Coleman on Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:23 pm

The only real big problem I see with this is the attacking and moving first advantage would be pretty big.

The only games where I feel like this works is where everyone moves at the same time after secretly making up moves, which is probably too much new coding to consider and would change the nature of the game quite a bit with no dice on.
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Postby yeti_c on Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:38 pm

Coleman wrote:The only real big problem I see with this is the attacking and moving first advantage would be pretty big.

The only games where I feel like this works is where everyone moves at the same time after secretly making up moves, which is probably too much new coding to consider and would change the nature of the game quite a bit with no dice on.


But would it (taking classic as an example) - yes you'd get a 6 to start with - but you lose 3 - and leave a 2 and a 1 somewhere - that would be easy to conquer for player 2...

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Postby Coleman on Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:03 pm

That still is quite imbalanced. The only reason it works in Diplomacy is you only have 1 army per territory and there are all these weird movement rules.
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Postby Risktaker17 on Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:45 pm

Been requested and rejected TONS OF TIMES!
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Postby ParadiceCity9 on Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:50 pm

CrabNebula wrote:No randomness, no fun. I'd rather play Chess then.
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Postby Risktaker17 on Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:51 pm

ParadiceCity9 wrote:
CrabNebula wrote:No randomness, no fun. I'd rather play Chess then.
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Postby God255 on Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:48 pm

You know, instead of playing dice, we should do rock paper scissors agianst the defender. That'd make things at least fair and not so random...
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No dice games [REJECTED]

Postby Fruitcake on Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:44 am

[MOD EDIT: The reason this is REJECTED is the possibility of unbreakable stalemates. See here, here and here. Feel free to continue the discussion here, but unless these difficulties can be overcome, this will not be implemented. If you see a thread that should be merged here, please inform a moderator. -- agentcom]

With all the angst about dice, surely a no dice game should be an option.

The rules are simple. Both attacker and defender lose the same amount of armies. So the attacker has to have at least 2 more armies than the defender, simple example: 3 attackers against 1 defender, both lose 1, the attacker moves 1 army in.

This seems, on the surface to favour the first turn in a game, however, it does not. See the board in your minds eye. Now, the first attacker gets 3 armies, to take a terry, a minimum of 2 would have to be placed on the attacking terry (3 loss each, 1 moves in, 1 left behind) this leaves 1 spare...placement...wherever. Now the next takes the turn. They then have the option, take the easy singles (if they can) or attack elsewhere with the same result as above.

Now as the game progresses, obviously, one has to really look at the whole board strategically, for to break someone else, may leave you with too few defenders elsewhere, and under threat from another player, so strategic thinking plays a far greater part. It also brings forward planning more into the equation, it may well be worth just reducing on one turn, to set up for an assault the following.

The immediate question many have, with two player games is: So what happens if the first player just attacks every other terry on the first go? Well, it is simple, every terry then has a single unit left (3v3), and both lose 2, so no Terries taken bar the original where 4 were placed). But then the second player has easy targets to grab and build. They get the 4 income, and could take 2 terries with these (4+1 so 5 on a terry, takes 1, loses a single, moves 3 in, takes another moves 1 in), and so on and so on.

By playing this way, it takes a huge element of luck out of the equation (you could still play with cards as well to add that frisson of that luck if you wanted).

Negatives: It does often mean a longer game with multi players (2 player games still remain fairly fast). However, many no card games I have played seem to go on for weeks

Positives:
No crazy dice runs, so less forum threads about the dice.
More strategic thinking
More lifelike as the largest force always wins the battle, but the defence has to be considered with a more measured approach...no more leaving 6 armies defending when there are 8 armies 2 Terries away with say 3 income coming, and hoping the dice roll for you.

I am not saying lets convert, I am putting forward the motion that this is an option cc could offer.

Please give this your support. If you still want to play with dice, great!

[quote=chapcrap]For a slightly different spin on this, see this post: https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... d#p3988290[/quote]
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Postby Audax on Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:06 am

Got my support Fruitcake..I would love to see a no dice game.

Where is the poll?

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Postby BaldAdonis on Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:12 am

In a 2 player game, if the first player gets 4 to start, then unless the map is so skewed that both players are directly opposite, he'll be able to find four territories to take with no chance of losing them the next round. Many places you wouldn't even need to deploy: if you have two territories next to one, you'll take it. Try applying this to any game you've just started, and see how many you can take over. It'll be a lot more than you could take with dice.
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Postby Maggog on Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:14 am

so if I get this right...

4 vs 3 - 3 vs 2 - 2 vs 1- ....? If it ever becomes 2 vs 1 the attacker cant take the territory?

what about in games like 2.1 or maps where players get 5+ men, they could place a 2, a 2 and a 1 and guarantie that they take 2 areas for sure, this cuts their opponent down to 4 guys per round (an even bigger effect in world 2.1)
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Postby john1099 on Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:17 am

Why is this in GD?
It's been discussed 2034804823 times, and people don't believe it should be implemented because it cuts away from the actual "Risk" aspect of the game.
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Postby Great Pretender on Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:17 am

shouldn't this be in s suggestion forum then? :?
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Postby Fruitcake on Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:20 am

In a 2 player game, if the first player gets 4 to start, then unless the map is so skewed that both players are directly opposite, he'll be able to find four territories to take with no chance of losing them the next round. Many places you wouldn't even need to deploy: if you have two territories next to one, you'll take it. Try applying this to any game you've just started, and see how many you can take over. It'll be a lot more than you could take with dice.


Not quite, and the first player could never take more than 2 terries....

start=3 per terry, so the first player places 4 armies on one terry. Same player takes terry 1, loses 3 in attack, has to leave one behind, so moves 3 in. this now means just 4 on the next attacking terry against 3, so has to use armies from another surrounding terry to reduce to 2 before attacking, then takes. great, but player then has 3 terries with just 1 army on each.
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Postby Fruitcake on Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:24 am

Why is this in GD?
It's been discussed 2034804823 times, and people don't believe it should be implemented because it cuts away from the actual "Risk" aspect of the game.

The game of Risk is called a strategic game....isn't it?

I was asked to post this for discussion.
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Postby Audax on Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:29 am

Why is this in GD?
It's been discussed 2034804823 times, and people don't believe it should be implemented because it cuts away from the actual "Risk" aspect of the game.


Apart from the obviously silly number which has nothing positive, I fail to undertstand hwo you can say this. How many threads appear on this forum about the dice????????

I agree with Fruitcake's comment about strategic thinking. I play no dice risk all the time, but then maybe that is because I think skill comes from this strategic thinking and not luck...
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Postby Sven Hassel on Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:30 am

a simple answer: NO

the dice are the heart of the game, it wouldn't be fun anymore if there wasn't a sort of risk to it, and what would you do in cases like 11 vs 10, i won a roll like this without losing any armies with you solution it would have resulted in losing all my armies. but what about the crazy attack: 20 vs 33? 5 vs 9?
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Postby Audax on Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:33 am

what about in games like 2.1 or maps where players get 5+ men, they could place a 2, a 2 and a 1 and guarantie that they take 2 areas for sure, this cuts their opponent down to 4 guys per round (an even bigger effect in world 2.1)


Good point, bet Fruit hadn't though about that, I had not, never play it myself. Notwithstanding that...it would be an option, not compulsory...surely this increases the attractiveness of the site rather than detracts from it.
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