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[MED] Special Clan member contribution achievement award.

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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby trinicardinal on Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:11 am

lol... I actually just saw this for the first time. I'm not in a clan but I think jefjef has made a very good suggestion with this one. Hope you folks sort out the details and that it goes through.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby tokle on Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:39 am

The New Crusade and myself totally support this suggestion.

It looks to me like mets' issues have been addressed, only that jef needs to state clearly in the opening post exactly how, and by whom, it is proposed that the medals should be awarded.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:11 am

tokle wrote:The New Crusade and myself totally support this suggestion.

It looks to me like mets' issues have been addressed, only that jef needs to state clearly in the opening post exactly how, and by whom, it is proposed that the medals should be awarded.


This is basically correct. In order for me to process this, the original post needs to contain a clear assessment of what the suggested guidelines are for clans to choose the recipient of the award. Since there doesn't seem to be any real disagreement with the clan directors confirming these, that should be added too. I don't think this can be done immediately since there hasn't been much substantial discussion regarding what the guidelines should actually be, but it shouldn't be too hard to work out the details.

Also, I apologize if there's been any confusion regarding the distinction between my personal feelings on the matter and my feelings as a Suggestions moderator. I have a clear distinction in my head of the two lines of argumentation but I recognize that it may not always be so clear to the reader which is which.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby greenoaks on Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:36 am

tokle wrote:The New Crusade and myself totally support this suggestion.

It looks to me like mets' issues have been addressed, only that jef needs to state clearly in the opening post exactly how, and by whom, it is proposed that the medals should be awarded.

i want to be on record as for this medal but against 1 being handed out to every clan & every clan being limited to 1.

there was a head mod who recently gave out medals for showing up in Live Chat. is that all that is required for a medal from team CC? if so most clan members would qualify. imo-

a Clan Contribution medal should not be given for improving as a player - that is what rank & score is for.
a Clan Contribution medal should not be given for winning clan games - that is what a Clan Achievement medal is for.

a Clan Contribution medal should ONLY be given out for going above and beyond just participating in clan life. examples of this are, but not limited to:-
  • maintaining extensive databases or stats on their clan AND/OR their opposition for clan wars
  • maintaining all the relevant details of AND/OR hosting their clan's wars
  • a systemic tutorialship of recruits in team warfare

some clans do all of this and more. some clans do none.

my proposed adjustment to this suggestion is Clan Leaders submit ALL eligible clan members and why. the Clan Leaders, Clan Directors or Lack :-$ review the proposals and grant recognition to ALL of the candidates that meet the minimum, regardless of the membership of those proposed.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby SirSebstar on Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:58 am

actually... i like this
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby jefjef on Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:03 am

greenoaks wrote:
tokle wrote:The New Crusade and myself totally support this suggestion.

It looks to me like mets' issues have been addressed, only that jef needs to state clearly in the opening post exactly how, and by whom, it is proposed that the medals should be awarded.

i want to be on record as for this medal but against 1 being handed out to every clan & every clan being limited to 1.

there was a head mod who recently gave out medals for showing up in Live Chat. is that all that is required for a medal from team CC? if so most clan members would qualify. imo-


As I had stated before and will repeat again.

I would have criteria to be met for this medal.

For the clan to have been active for a year.
For the clan to have had a minimum number of wars and to have won one in that year.
For the medal recipient to have been a member of that clan for a year.
For that recipient to have participated in minimum number of wars and have a win.

Clans then can decide who they award. I would hope it didn't go to the person with the coolest avi or funniest joke or won the most war games.

Now greenoaks - To NOT limit it to 1 would be akin to getting a medal for showing up in live chat now wouldn't it and it would make it less meaningful for those that get it. I will not be changing this sugg for more than 1 medal.

See how mcshanester is viewing who deserves awards. I also recall a post from someone talking about an award for someone who majorly turned that clan around. I really don't think clans will be throwing their award at just anyone. Just for showing up.
mcshanester29 wrote:I think this would be a great idea as there are a lot of people in our clan who really go the extra mile and organize everything from clan wars to inner clan battles and more. This would be a great way for them to publicly be thanked for their hard work. I think 1 a year is perfect and having to be submitted to the CD's will work great.

Great idea!!!
This post was made by jefjef who should be on your ignore list.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby eddie2 on Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:14 am

put it in the opening post jefjef lack wont go looking through a thread to find the info. thats all that has been said it needs to be put in the first post.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby TheTrueNorth on Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:15 am

jefjef wrote:
I would have criteria to be met for this medal.

For the clan to have been active for a year.
For the clan to have had a minimum number of wars and to have won one in that year.
For the medal recipient to have been a member of that clan for a year.
For that recipient to have participated in minimum number of wars and have a win.



sounds good to me
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby Denise on Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:24 am

I love the original suggestion. There is something special about being recognized by one's peers. Only clanmates will know the extent of an individual's contributions. I hope if this happens that it will be as jefjef suggested, 1 medal per competitive clan to be given to a player who is chosen by that clan. To put it in the hands of team CC would completely change what jefjef is trying to do, which is to give the clans the ability to publicly recognize outstanding service to their clan. It is simple and easy to implicate. I find the arguments against it completely unreasonable by the 2 naysayers.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby greenoaks on Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:31 am

jefjef wrote:Now greenoaks - To NOT limit it to 1 would be akin to getting a medal for showing up in live chat now wouldn't it and it would make it less meaningful for those that get it. I will not be changing this sugg for more than 1 medal


no it wouldn't. under my proposed adjustment a medal could only be granted by a central authority. he/she/they would assess all proposals, regardless of clan, and award or deny. some clans would get 1 medal, some more, some none. there would be a bar that needs to be exceeded regardless of which clan you are a member of.

under your proposal all clans get 1 medal to award. someone will be awarded for being the best of a bad bunch. many others will fail to get the recognition you wish to award just because there is another in their clan of equal merit.

a Clan Contribution medal should be an across the board award. if no one in a Clan measures up, no one in that Clan should get one.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby jefjef on Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:35 am

tokle wrote:The New Crusade and myself totally support this suggestion.

It looks to me like mets' issues have been addressed, only that jef needs to state clearly in the opening post exactly how, and by whom, it is proposed that the medals should be awarded.


Inserted the following into the original suggestion:

CRITERIA:
For the clan to have been active for a year +.
For the clan to have had a minimum of 6 medal qualifying wars and to have won at least one in that year.
For the medal recipient to have been a member of that clan for a year +.
For that recipient to have participated in a minimum of 6 medal qualifying wars.

Clans then earn 1 medal to issue to whom they decide, by whatever method they decide to make that decision, deserves an award for their contributions.

a Clan Contribution medal should be an across the board award. if no one in a Clan measures up, no one in that Clan should get one.


If a clan does not measure up - IE min of 6 medal qualifying wars and winning at least one of them then they don't get one. That is now posted in the sugg.
This post was made by jefjef who should be on your ignore list.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:01 pm

jefjef wrote:Inserted the following into the original suggestion:

CRITERIA:
For the clan to have been active for a year +.
For the clan to have had a minimum of 6 medal qualifying wars and to have won at least one in that year.
For the medal recipient to have been a member of that clan for a year +.
For that recipient to have participated in a minimum of 6 medal qualifying wars.

Clans then earn 1 medal to issue to whom they decide, by whatever method they decide to make that decision, deserves an award for their contributions.

a Clan Contribution medal should be an across the board award. if no one in a Clan measures up, no one in that Clan should get one.


If a clan does not measure up - IE min of 6 medal qualifying wars and winning at least one of them then they don't get one. That is now posted in the sugg.


OK, this is a good start, but what about criteria for who is eligible for the award once these bare minimum qualifications are met? Should we leave it entirely up to a clan's discretion to choose who they want, or should there be guidelines similar to what greenoaks is saying (that there must be some evidence of the player going above and beyond the normal call of duty for their clan)? If you would hope that people don't abuse the choice to pick someone who doesn't deserve it, then surely there's no problem in codifying these standards. It can only save everyone hassle in the long run.

Also, a number of people have made it clear that a principal motivation for this is that it takes a lot of work to run clan wars. In my mind, that is simply part of the leadership role of the clan, and isn't really a "special contribution," in the sense that every successful clan has such dedicated leaders. Perhaps a different way to reward them is a medal similar to the tournament contribution medal.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby jefjef on Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:25 pm

what about criteria for who is eligible for the award once these bare minimum qualifications are met? Should we leave it entirely up to a clan's discretion to choose who they want


Yes. Leave it up to the discretion of the clan. I am sure that someone who contributes above and beyond and is overlooked and feels slighted that person might leave the clan if the award is unjustly dispersed. So the clan should award it carefully and with thought and consensus.

Also, a number of people have made it clear that a principal motivation for this is that it takes a lot of work to run clan wars. In my mind, that is simply part of the leadership role of the clan, and isn't really a "special contribution," in the sense that every successful clan has such dedicated leaders. Perhaps a different way to reward them is a medal similar to the tournament contribution medal.


Here you are contradicting yourself. You are saying a leadership role in a clan is not really a "special contribution".

Then you are calling for an award for their contributions that is similar to a tourney award.

look. My vision on this is not for a leader (unless that leader is doing everything). It is for the members. Be it Ministers or War or recruiters or trainers or team captains.

But yes. Leave it up to the discretion of the qualifying clans. If someone thinks they prefer a different/enlarged path with this I recommend creating their own sugg. I prefer simple and easy and basic.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby eddie2 on Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:23 pm

nice you got a full sug now on the first post. but can i add something to your sug.

jefjef wrote:If a clan does not measure up - IE min of 6 medal qualifying wars and winning at least one of them then they don't get one. That is now posted in the sugg.



i think 6 wars are a little bit 2 steep for the smaller clans an average war can last up to 2 months and with the clan league where clans dont take on challenges while the opening round happens(these do not count as medal awards) you will be taking some very active clans out of the running for this medal.. also take into account summer holidays where some clans dont do wars. i would prefer to see 4 wars as the total amount. this making it 1 war every 3 months. this would make it more fair on the smaller clans where they have less people to do all the clan stuff needing done.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby jefjef on Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:29 pm

eddie2 wrote:nice you got a full sug now on the first post. but can i add something to your sug.

jefjef wrote:If a clan does not measure up - IE min of 6 medal qualifying wars and winning at least one of them then they don't get one. That is now posted in the sugg.



i think 6 wars are a little bit 2 steep for the smaller clans an average war can last up to 2 months and with the clan league where clans dont take on challenges while the opening round happens(these do not count as medal awards) you will be taking some very active clans out of the running for this medal.. also take into account summer holidays where some clans dont do wars. i would prefer to see 4 wars as the total amount. this making it 1 war every 3 months. this would make it more fair on the smaller clans where they have less people to do all the clan stuff needing done.


I believe 4 wars a year are the minimum to maintain clan status. I think the criteria should be above the minimum. Maybe a clause for clans with 12 total members or less 4 wars would suffice or maybe just place the magic number at 5 for all clans but this should only be awarded for above minimum participation/activity.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:56 pm

jefjef wrote:Here you are contradicting yourself. You are saying a leadership role in a clan is not really a "special contribution".

Then you are calling for an award for their contributions that is similar to a tourney award.


When I said it's not a special contribution, I didn't mean it shouldn't be rewarded! I just meant that it should be rewarded for a different reason. All I am saying is that if this is mostly going to be used to reward the people who organize logistics for clan wars, then we should create a separate medal for those people and then re-evaluate whether a "special" contribution medal is warranted, for people who go above and beyond what is normally expected out of a clan member. If people recognize that this really is a clan member (as opposed to leader) recognition, then no problem.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby Qwert on Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:04 pm

thanks for notice me for these sugestion. Now i support that clan players can have contribution award, but i dont like some things in sugestion.

CRITERIA:
For the clan to have been active for a year +.
For the clan to have had a minimum of 6 medal qualifying wars* and to have won at least one in that year.
For the medal recipient to have been a member of that clan for a year +.
For that recipient to have participated in a minimum of 6 medal qualifying wars*.
*Participation in a Medal qualifying clan tournament counts towards a medal war.

Clans then earn 1 medal to issue to whom they feel deserves recognition, by whatever method the clan uses to arise at that decision, an award for their contributions.


Its to much restriction you have here-and its for some clans hard to achive these 6 clan wars, also what abouth Clan league, they have part of season,who going belove medal qualification.
Next,what its bad,its 1 medal per clan, and these mean that some clan who have 30 members, and have great player need to give 1 medal per yer per member.

Well i think that best parameter for get special Clan contribution award, its number of win total.
Bronze eagle -30 team wins in clan chalenges(clan wars-Conquer club-Clan league- and other team games)
Silver eagle-60 team wins in clan chalenges(clan wars-Conquer club-Clan league- and other team games)
Gold eagle-100 team wins in clan chalenges(clan wars-Conquer club-Clan league- and other team games)
( here i will exclude 1 vs 1 games, because these is not team games, and its not calculate in requirement for CLan War medal)
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Why its these good:
First-everybody can be eligible for these awards,and everybody will want to much more participiate in clan wars
Second- what its best of measurement of contribution players in clan chalenges then number of wins in clan chalenges
Third- these could be much easier for CD to decide who will get medals.
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Your parameters exclude a very large number of players, and few will be able to get them, and that the disadvantage to this idea.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby chapcrap on Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:06 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
jefjef wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:This sets an interesting precedent -- normal users are generally not allowed to determine who is eligible to earn a site medal. Accepting this suggestion would mean Team CC no longer has full control over who receives these recognitions. I think this part of it needs to be addressed before this can be submitted.


What is there specifically to address mets? Many of us have thus far showed support to be able to recognize and acknowledge the contributions of those that make our clan experience a very enjoyable and successful part of our CC experience.

I can't imagine why CC would have an issue with that.


The issue is not with the content of the suggestion but the framework in which it must occur. Submitting this suggestion is tantamount to saying that it is OK for people who have no real ties to leadership or volunteering on the site to control how the site apportions its official recognitions. This is problematic because the medal system was never intended to be controlled by (or be used for) a specific group of people. In a general sense, it has only ever been used to award medals that all players in the CC community were eligible for, if they chose to get involved at the time (special achievement medals notwithstanding, but these are still given out by Team CC only).

So I'm not currently convinced that players should receive site recognition for helping out a specific, exclusive community on the site, and I'm currently opposed to giving normal users (not on Team CC) discretion over who gets official site recognition. These definitely need to be addressed.

Haven't read everything yet, so I'm not sure if it has been addressed, but clans aren't exclusive. Anyone can join and if they can't find one, they can make their own. So, it's not exclusive. (It's the same as having a tournament for Non-English speakers. Anyone can learn another language, so it's not exclusive. Anyone can join a clan.) Secondly, there are already medals that are clan specific, so even it clans were exclusive, which they aren't, then the precedent is to give medals for that anyway.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby jefjef on Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:32 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
jefjef wrote:Here you are contradicting yourself. You are saying a leadership role in a clan is not really a "special contribution".

Then you are calling for an award for their contributions that is similar to a tourney award.


When I said it's not a special contribution, I didn't mean it shouldn't be rewarded! I just meant that it should be rewarded for a different reason. All I am saying is that if this is mostly going to be used to reward the people who organize logistics for clan wars, then we should create a separate medal for those people and then re-evaluate whether a "special" contribution medal is warranted, for people who go above and beyond what is normally expected out of a clan member. If people recognize that this really is a clan member (as opposed to leader) recognition, then no problem.


Look. This sugg contains a proposal for a new award/medal. I have been informed behind the scenes that this almost like having teeth pulled. This idea will also function fine with the current clan achievement award and actually fits in well with it because it's cognitive of clan contribution.

Now as far as who each clan decides that they would award this too, be it a member or a leader, that should be their choice. Basically what you are saying is any awards going to a member is cool and fine. If the clan decides one of it's leaders deserve it than it is wrong.

But anyway mets. Look this thread over, see how many support this. Look at who dismisses it (you) and the 2 others that seem to want more than 1 medal and ask yourself if you are properly serving the community and CC and fulfilling your role as a suggs mod or are abusing and misusing your position in this process. You may not agree with the sugg and you may not like the sugg but is it really your role to stone wall it and hinder it? You are basically all alone in your objection to it.

EDIT: Now to alleviate a couple of fair concerns that there may be to much restriction I dropped the minimums to 5. That should guarantee an achievable number and also not just be a medal giveaway.
Last edited by jefjef on Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This post was made by jefjef who should be on your ignore list.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:43 pm

jefjef wrote:Now as far as who each clan decides that they would award this too, be it a member or a leader, that should be their choice. Basically what you are saying is any awards going to a member is cool and fine. If the clan decides one of it's leaders deserve it than it is wrong.


jefjef wrote:look. My vision on this is not for a leader (unless that leader is doing everything). It is for the members. Be it Ministers or War or recruiters or trainers or team captains.


Forget it. You are terrible at reading comprehension. I'll let one of the other Suggs mods deal with this one.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby jefjef on Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:45 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
jefjef wrote:Now as far as who each clan decides that they would award this too, be it a member or a leader, that should be their choice. Basically what you are saying is any awards going to a member is cool and fine. If the clan decides one of it's leaders deserve it than it is wrong.


jefjef wrote:look. My vision on this is not for a leader (unless that leader is doing everything). It is for the members. Be it Ministers or War or recruiters or trainers or team captains.


Forget it. You are terrible at reading comprehension. I'll let one of the other Suggs mods deal with this one.


Speaking of reading comprehension...

and thank you for stepping aside.
This post was made by jefjef who should be on your ignore list.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby eddie2 on Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:36 pm

jefjef wrote:
EDIT: Now to alleviate a couple of fair concerns that there may be to much restriction I dropped the minimums to 5. That should guarantee an achievable number and also not just be a medal giveaway.


i still think this is 2 high due to the fact of the cup leagues maybe if you include them as counting as one war it might work better. think of it if we drew thota or kort these would not count as medal worthy challenges. look at tffs they are a 10/11 player clan last time i looked. but are low on ladder. they face a top clan and win it would not be a medal challenge due to the ladder system but they would carry on in the cup. this clan only hae the resorces to compete in 1 challenge at a time.

ps still 100 percent behind this. just think it needs a tweaking to make it fair on smaller clans
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby QoH on Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:49 pm

I'm a little confused here. Are there 2 types of medal awards? Clan achievement and clan contribution?

If so, I think it should be that clan achievement is based on wins and contribution should be just that.

Again, im in full support, just a little confused.





Also qwert, your suggestion completely changes Jef's idea. Like, its 180 degrees different.
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby tkr4lf on Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:03 pm

I'd just like to throw my support out for this. Great idea that would add another element to clan life. Reward those who do the most for the clan. Great idea jefjef. I knew their was a reason I liked you so much...
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Re: Special Clan contribution award.

Postby chapcrap on Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:39 pm

eddie2 wrote:
jefjef wrote:
EDIT: Now to alleviate a couple of fair concerns that there may be to much restriction I dropped the minimums to 5. That should guarantee an achievable number and also not just be a medal giveaway.


i still think this is 2 high due to the fact of the cup leagues maybe if you include them as counting as one war it might work better. think of it if we drew thota or kort these would not count as medal worthy challenges. look at tffs they are a 10/11 player clan last time i looked. but are low on ladder. they face a top clan and win it would not be a medal challenge due to the ladder system but they would carry on in the cup. this clan only hae the resorces to compete in 1 challenge at a time.

ps still 100 percent behind this. just think it needs a tweaking to make it fair on smaller clans

I completely disagree. I think that 6 would be even better. With 4 being the minimum, I would think that 5 should be easily attainable and this should be for clans and individuals who do more than expected.

Although, I do like greenoaks suggestion of letting the CD mods decide whether or not players deserve it and have it be something that is given out based on merit alone. It would not matter what clan you are in or if others in the clan have or haven't gotten a medal. It will be determined by merit alone and based on what you do. Players could submit clan members for the award at any time and the CDs can decide whether or not the clan member merits the award/medal.
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