Conquer Club

jgordon1111 wrote:Thanks CI but I dont think we can do that. Not legal and all that. But the Idea is to make it harder to farm or ranch. And If it involves harsher punishment for doing it, then I would say yes it is an excellent Idea. Make it, you get one warning and if you do it again perma ban, no appeal. Easiest way to do this would be to send a community wide PM to all members stating a change in rules is in effect. Consider this your only warning, As of today (MM/DD/YY) if you get caught farming or intentional ranching you will be perma banned no appeal. Ie,. Intentionally setting up multiple games designed to draw in new recruits. Or the systematic inviting of less knowledgeable players into games that they are not familiar with.

there is no problem with farming.

point to the examples (and 1 case still under review is not evidence of a problem) or stfu about it.

I'm struggling to come to terms with whether greenoaks is being put-up to say these things or whether he intends to emulate the shameful example set by certain others? To join a thread whose purpose is to address a very real problem (and thus find possible solutions) with 'stfu' doesn't make much sense to me. If you're not aware of a problem as you've not followed all the history, or if you don't like the content of this thread and/or some of the proposals herein, why not just ignore it and devote your time to something you find worthwhile?

Chariot of Fire wrote:I'm struggling to come to terms with whether greenoaks is being put-up to say these things or whether he intends to emulate the shameful example set by certain others? To join a thread whose purpose is to address a very real problem (and thus find possible solutions) with 'stfu' doesn't make much sense to me. If you're not aware of a problem as you've not followed all the history, or if you don't like the content of this thread and/or some of the proposals herein, why not just ignore it and devote your time to something you find worthwhile?

the cases referred to are cases of ranching not farming yet the op keeps insisting there is a problem with farming without providing any evidence whatsoever.

the op should stick with the situation many here agree is a problem rather than muddying the discussion with non-existant ones.

jgordon1111 wrote:ok let everyone play thier own games then, but inviting them and consistently playing is the big no no then.

That's MY view (for whatever little that's worth).

Raston-morue and alstergen, Irish Ace do you have anything or anyone you want to Add to this?. There are plenty more being tracked Greeoaks, but really 2 are enough when one was told specifically told by King Achilles to change what he was doing and hasnt stopped yet.

That says one of 2 things to the rest of us
1. No one is really worried about the Mods and what they say

2. Or some players get different treatment than others.

This is not acceptable, either of those 2 choices.

jgordon1111 wrote:Raston-morue and alstergen, Irish Ace do you have anything or anyone you want to Add to this?. There are plenty more being tracked Greeoaks, but really 2 are enough when one was told specifically told by King Achilles to change what he was doing and hasnt stopped yet.

That says one of 2 things to the rest of us
1. No one is really worried about the Mods and what they say

2. Or some players get different treatment than others.

This is not acceptable, either of those 2 choices.

It seems painfully obvious that it's not JUST #1 (I wish it were just #1).

I think there are some good ideas here and I do have plenty to say about the whole framing/ranching that is rampant on this site and has been since its inception but I do not want to fill this post with an off topic rant and will instead be opening up a topic in the GD forum soon about this issue...

I will just quickly address a couple of things..

greenoaks wrote:there isn't a problem with farming NR's. people who do get reported and warned or banned. the system we currently have works fine.

unfortunately it does not work fine there is to much leeway in the rule..here is the rule and the reasons it does not work....

Lackattack's Ruling on Newbie farming - 1st January 2009

lackattack wrote:"Newbie Farming" is the technique of setting up as many games as possible (either by starting or joining them) with New Recruits

This is a gross abuse of the game. It gives the New Recruit "victims" a poor first experience and reduces the chances of them sticking around. As farmers move up the scoreboard it also harms the competitive nature of Conquer Club - the scoreboard is meant to measure skill in the game, not "harvesting" techniques.(3 years later and we still have a scoreboard that measures harvesting)

In accordance with the desires and feedback of the majority of the community, our rules and as a new leaf for 2009, it is our New Years resolution to make Newbie Farming forbidden. Members who continue this practice will receive point resets and then progressively longer website bans.(Im still looking into all cases but as yet have not found any point resets/website bans)

If you don't officially receive a warning, consider this it...we may have overlooked you once, but we won't do it again.(my understanding of this statement is that you have been warned....but it seems like you could still get noted, then warned and then maybe warned again)

greenoaks wrote:if you believe that the current rules against farming are not working then give some examples of where it did not.

will send you a link to the new thread when its up..

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ok back on topic.....

I have thought about this and I think one of the big issues in all this is all the New Recruits that join up but then never play and just deadbeat out of whatever games they have joined and are never seen again....I would really like to get some numbers on this...

there is a simple solution to this...
every new member that signs up for a freemium account is limited to one 1v1 game against another New Recruit (Classic Map..standard settings)...once they have completed this game then they are free to join there 4 games at a time...this would filter out all the deadbeating New Recruits before they are introduced to the general CC community and would eliminate a lot of C&A farming reports....
another plus would be it might increase the numbers that purchase premium..two Scenario's for you...
(obviously if someone signs up with a Premium account they can just jump straight in and play)

Scenario (1)
I was introduced to the site about a year and half ago by a friend and after the first day/two of playing with my 4 game limit I had to buy Premium. there was at least a couple of deadbeating players in each game....Game 7613071 & Game 7613217 and it was taking forever for my turns to come around so I payed...

Scenario (2)
I introduced another friend to the site and he joined a few games but got pissed off at how long it was taking to get a turn and players just deadbeating...he did not enjoy the experience and just let his account deadbeat to...


also JOIN A GAME needs to filter better for New Recruits..
So I signed up for premium on day 2/3....and straight away clicked the JOIN A GAME tab and start just joining games at random from the first couple of pages and did not even look at the settings and the map. I think i just assumed its was all just variations on the classic map and settings where standard...so lo and behold I ended up in some real peachy games....
Game 7555464...(Nuke Spoils on Monsters)
Game 7579140...(Freestyle, Nukes on AOR2)
Game 7586962...(Stalingrad...nuff said)

if the JOIN A GAME tab filtered all these kinds of games to the bottom and had only games on standard type Maps with standard settings appearing at the top it would greatly increase the odds of a New recruit continuing to play and perhaps paying for premium

Now they could still use the Game finder tab to find whatever Map/settings they want to play but I imagine that most people who just joined the site do what I done and just hit the Join a game tab and start jumping into whatever games appear...

I think if both of these ideas where introduced it would be a step in the right direction....filter all the deadbeats out and giving all those freemium members a better first experience of the site...

Cheers Ace

IR1SH ACE wrote:every new member that signs up for a freemium account is limited to one 1v1 game against another New Recruit (Classic Map..standard settings)...once they have completed this game then they are free to join there 4 games at a time...this would filter out all the deadbeating New Recruits before they are introduced to the general CC community and would eliminate a lot of C&A farming reports....

This is an excellent addition!

Thanks IA I think you made yourself clear on the topic where the rest of us were apparently being to vague and not giving enough examples for greenoaks.

Is this clear enough or are you just here to argue greenoaks.

1. clearly there is a problem or Admin would not have seen a reason to update the rules just a couple of weeks ago.
2. And raston_morue has been warned but continues.
3. That means it is still happening.
4. I have already asked you to please keep your comments to helpful input on this topic. As this topic is being discussed by people who believe
there is still an ongoing problem.
5. As I stated before any more negative input from YOU on what is thought of as a problem by those who have posted will be treated as trolling and
baiting. We know your opinion and you are allowed to state it. But repeating (there is no problem) over and over is nothing less than trolling or
baiting.

jgordon1111 wrote:Thanks IA I think you made yourself clear on the topic where the rest of us were apparently being to vague and not giving enough examples for greenoaks.

Is this clear enough or are you just here to argue greenoaks.

1. clearly there is a problem or Admin would not have seen a reason to update the rules just a couple of weeks ago.
2. And raston_morue has been warned but continues.
3. That means it is still happening.
4. I have already asked you to please keep your comments to helpful input on this topic. As this topic is being discussed by people who believe
there is still an ongoing problem.
5. As I stated before any more negative input from YOU on what is thought of as a problem by those who have posted will be treated as trolling and
baiting. We know your opinion and you are allowed to state it. But repeating (there is no problem) over and over is nothing less than trolling or
baiting.

i have been provided with some examples but not one of them was involving ?'s.

please show me where the C&A mods have not dealt with someone abusing new recruits. if there really is a problem then you should have no problem providing half a dozen links.

right now all i see is someone trying to avoid my simple request for proof by resorting to name-calling.

greenoaks wrote:

jgordon1111 wrote:Thanks IA I think you made yourself clear on the topic where the rest of us were apparently being to vague and not giving enough examples for greenoaks.

Is this clear enough or are you just here to argue greenoaks.

1. clearly there is a problem or Admin would not have seen a reason to update the rules just a couple of weeks ago.
2. And raston_morue has been warned but continues.
3. That means it is still happening.
4. I have already asked you to please keep your comments to helpful input on this topic. As this topic is being discussed by people who believe
there is still an ongoing problem.
5. As I stated before any more negative input from YOU on what is thought of as a problem by those who have posted will be treated as trolling and
baiting. We know your opinion and you are allowed to state it. But repeating (there is no problem) over and over is nothing less than trolling or
baiting.

i have been provided with some examples but not one of them was involving ?'s.

please show me where the C&A mods have not dealt with someone abusing new recruits. if there really is a problem then you should have no problem providing half a dozen links.

right now all i see is someone trying to avoid my simple request for proof by resorting to name-calling.

Is it possible to take this down a notch or two and stick to suggestions?

Greenoaks- kind of the point of the suggestions forum is to suggest changes to the established way of doing things.

Gordie- no need to threaten people.

Neither of your last few posts really had suggestions, or criticisms of suggestions.

Also, "ranching" isn't really a thing is it?

greenoaks you obviously have a different opinion than most of the rest of us in this topic so with that, mine and your discussion is over. I have alot of respect for your clan and many of its members,that is the only reason you have not been foed,so I wouldnt have to look at your negative posts.

Back on topic IA good points, a filtering system that would filter the maps according to difficulty, both map and settings thank you for your input.

Another good idea, anyone with anything else on this.

I like the idea but think, that it should just be advertised better. I myself never took any SoC training, but as a player I think I turned out pretty decent. But it sure wouldn't have hurt me. I think it should be advertised more, with medals involved so there is incentive to being in it

Thanks for the suggestion swimmer,advertise the SoC more and the medals would make an incentive beyond the graduation (trophy)

Tomorrow I will go through and put the most active suggestions in one post and then everyone let me know which ones you think are probable=possible to push forward.

Would like to thank everyone for their suggestions and input and looking forward to which suggestions you think are best go thru and number them from top to bottom. please if you have thought of anything else post it.

Symmetry wrote:Also, "ranching" isn't really a thing is it?

It's nothing that's formally recognized by the site, no. It is something that a fair number of individuals believe is a very real problem on the site that needs a fix.

I've just been checking out opposition in the next round of a clan challenge i'm in.

One of the players is viperoverlord

Looking at his games, he plays a varied selection of maps and games, but he does seem to play a lot of private 1v1 games on lunar wars against cooks, cadets and other low ranked players.

Is it deemed farming if you play some of these games amongst other games?

Yeah. Seems he's cottoned-on to someone else's dodgy tactic of setting-up a lot of private 1v1 games and inviting unsuspecting/inexperienced players.

Just what this site needs!

Pedronicus wrote:I've just been checking out opposition in the next round of a clan challenge i'm in.

One of the players is viperoverlord

Looking at his games, he plays a varied selection of maps and games, but he does seem to play a lot of private 1v1 games on lunar wars against cooks, cadets and other low ranked players.

Is it deemed farming if you play some of these games amongst other games?

seems like viper is looking at the GLG play book....and looks like he has been doing this for last couple of months....Viper Private 1v1's

and I think he feels like he will be ok to invite New Recruits as well...
Game 10081907
Game 10137191
Game 10146903
Game 10147072
Game 10063187...Kat the Great... NR when this game started
like some of the chat here

show: Game Chat

at least he is honest about what he is doing
and it was nice of him to play Kat the Great twice while she was still a New Recruit.....Game 10137194

Game 10074891...Dave Chappelle...NR when this game started
Game 10245259...Con88...NR when this game started
Game 10245260...TacticalPanda...NR when this game started

Game 10366457...and I think its obvious he is inviting these players..

show: Game Chat

Game 10501974....and he is even talking like GLG

show: Game Chat

25 private 1v1 games in the last 2 months and 10 of them against NR's that he has invited and he has about another 9/10 set-up ready to go....this is a worrying trend but something that is not a surprise

Ok what we have so far that seems acceptable to all is

1. send all new recruits an email that lets them know about The SoC mentors,and Farmers and Ranchers, with examples of what that is.

2. Game filter that put standard maps and settings at the top of the game finder.

3.filter the deadbeat ? with the first game a 1vs1 with another ?

4. Send a CC wide email alerting all players that intentional farming or ranching will result in a non appeal perma ban. and that the email was the warning

Anything I missed or that anyone thinks needs to be added before I revise again?

jgordon1111 wrote:Ok what we have so far that seems acceptable to all is

1. send all new recruits an email that lets them know about The SoC mentors,and Farmers and Ranchers, with examples of what that is.

2. Game filter that put standard maps and settings at the top of the game finder.

3.filter the deadbeat ? with the first game a 1vs1 with another ?

4. Send a CC wide email alerting all players that intentional farming or ranching will result in a non appeal perma ban. and that the email was the warning

Anything I missed or that anyone thinks needs to be added before I revise again?

I dont agree that all of these are "acceptable to all". No offense but thats reaching a bit brother. I think so far the majority in this forum can agree to number 1. Number 4 will never happen because there is no rule against "ranching". I agree it is bad sportsmanship but so is being a sore loser. I dont think that one has ore than minority support. In my experience if you approach someone with a list of suggestions and/or demands you will get none of them. If you approach with A suggestion you may have a chance. IMHO, lets try this in small steps and see what works. To be totally honest number four just sounds like you are looking to institute a rule to target a select few individuals. I am NOT saying you are. just that it comes across that way.

This is by no means an attempt to undermine what I think you are trying to accomplish. But just as an attempt at meeting in the middle lets pose this question.

@ Evil Semp, would you support the first item on this list if a fairly worded poll came out with a fair amount of positive answers?This would be preferably set up by someone with authority within the site to avoid another argument,

jcrymal wrote:

jgordon1111 wrote:Ok what we have so far that seems acceptable to all is

1. send all new recruits an email that lets them know about The SoC mentors,and Farmers and Ranchers, with examples of what that is.

2. Game filter that put standard maps and settings at the top of the game finder.

3.filter the deadbeat ? with the first game a 1vs1 with another ?

4. Send a CC wide email alerting all players that intentional farming or ranching will result in a non appeal perma ban. and that the email was the warning

Anything I missed or that anyone thinks needs to be added before I revise again?

I dont agree that all of these are "acceptable to all". No offense but thats reaching a bit brother. I think so far the majority in this forum can agree to number 1. Number 4 will never happen because there is no rule against "ranching". I agree it is bad sportsmanship but so is being a sore loser. I dont think that one has ore than minority support. In my experience if you approach someone with a list of suggestions and/or demands you will get none of them. If you approach with A suggestion you may have a chance. IMHO, lets try this in small steps and see what works. To be totally honest number four just sounds like you are looking to institute a rule to target a select few individuals. I am NOT saying you are. just that it comes across that way.

This is by no means an attempt to undermine what I think you are trying to accomplish. But just as an attempt at meeting in the middle lets pose this question.

@ Evil Semp, would you support the first item on this list if a fairly worded poll came out with a fair amount of positive answers?This would be preferably set up by someone with authority within the site to avoid another argument,

The only problem I have with number 1 is the mention of "ranching" because "ranching" is not against the rules.

About Ranching in #1. I think that if they were told about farming, they could figure out that people would still do it after the person is no longer a NR as well. So, the ranching part doesn't really need to be there anyway.

Thanks jcrymal, just trying to get a consensus on everyones opinion on the few things that seem to be agreeable to the majority.

Number four is directed at a few players, The majority of players on CC follow the rules. For those that dont that is the consequence. Believe that if one or two got hammered for real it would greatly curb anyone else's desire to follow in their footsteps.

The Idea here is to protect ? and players who dont understand all the maps and get invited into games over their heads by unscrupulous players.

This would be an alternative form of protection for them. A harsher permanent punishment, would be the best protection of all.

This way we are not forcing the ? to do something they dont want to do. In case they dont want to join the SoC or any type of tutorial.

The easiest and best protection is to make it a heinous crime that is punished by a more horrific sentence.

The win on this is just a few changes, 1 rule change and 2 emails very simple and easier to do.

This has alot more pluses for the site, the ? might stay and become paying members and tell their friends, and the scoreboard might balance back out,
the mods would be chasing down less number of complaints etc.

Thanks ES and chap for your posts

Then if we switched to the above mentioned items, Ranching would have to be included in the farming rules. Because it is happening.

Evil Semp wrote:The only problem I have with number 1 is the mention of "ranching" because "ranching" is not against the rules.

So? Just because certain activities are not explicitly against the rules does not mean that new players shouldn't be warned about those activities, particularly when those activities are designed to take advantage of them.

Woodruff wrote:

Evil Semp wrote:The only problem I have with number 1 is the mention of "ranching" because "ranching" is not against the rules.

So? Just because certain activities are not explicitly against the rules does not mean that new players shouldn't be warned about those activities, particularly when those activities are designed to take advantage of them.

Than we should also include the abuse in the forums that some members dish out. Tell them that if the way they play doesn't conform with your way of playing is frowned upon. Hey just want to let you know some people will miss turns to try to gain and advantage. Look out in FOW games some will give away your positions and troop counts.

People don't read the rules or the community guidelines so how big do you want this e-mail to be?