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Metsfanmax wrote:What is stopping me from submitting it is the technical limitation that chap mentioned.
chapcrap wrote:
One small coding issue is that the bronze, silver, gold, and soon to come diamond medals are all issued automatically based on statistical information. So, as an example, if you strip a players team medals, currently they will all come back once he wins another game. So, it's actually not enough to strip a player of medals. You also have to strip him of victories or create a mechanism that causes the count to reset.
Metsfanmax wrote:This has been idling long enough, and I am ready to submit it under the following condition: anyone who is busted for cheating and banned/stripped of premium is also reset on medals. What is stopping me from submitting it is the technical limitation that chap mentioned. How do we get around this? I don't think stahr's solution is very clean.
Metsfanmax wrote:No, I will not submit it without a concrete suggestion because whatever method is used to solve this problem will have a substantial impact on the resulting player. There is no way to just "get around" this with no side effects. We need to decide what should happen to the player afterward. Can they re-earn those medals? If so, do they need to start from square one, and all previous victories do not count?
chapcrap wrote:bronze, silver, gold, and soon to come diamond medals are all issued automatically based on statistical information. So, as an example, if you strip a players team medals, currently they will all come back once he wins another game.
koontz1973 wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:No, I will not submit it without a concrete suggestion because whatever method is used to solve this problem will have a substantial impact on the resulting player. There is no way to just "get around" this with no side effects. We need to decide what should happen to the player afterward. Can they re-earn those medals? If so, do they need to start from square one, and all previous victories do not count?
I thought that was the point. Strip the medals and then let them earn them back. Sorry, that was my misunderstanding. When I said let the coders figure it out, I meant that they should be the ones to work out how to implement it from the concrete suggestion we already had. So from what I gathered up to now is this, cheaters lose medals, they would then have to earn them back via the normal way, not through winning one game like chap said would happen.chapcrap wrote:bronze, silver, gold, and soon to come diamond medals are all issued automatically based on statistical information. So, as an example, if you strip a players team medals, currently they will all come back once he wins another game.
This is what I meant by letting the coders figure out how to do it. Stripping wins or resetting the medal count for that player, I would not have a clue if either or both could be done. Can it be done for one medal or would it happen for all medals. Again, let the coders figure it out. I think the suggestion is solid.
patrickaa317 wrote:Symmetry wrote:chapcrap wrote:Symmetry wrote:stripping victories seems like a separate suggestion. If TPTb already have the power to strip medals, it should be employed.
Well, I'm not sure the admin agree.
In any case, it can't be employed separately. If you read what I wrote earlier, you would understand that if you wanted the bronze, silver, gold, and diamond medals stripped, something else must also be done in order for them to remain stripped. Otherwise, they will re-appear. Now, if you wanted other medals (GA, GC, TA, etc.) stripped, that is different. But those medals are (mostly) not really the medals achieved through cheating.
Fair enough. Would it be fair to say that this is tied to a point reset then?
Medals are derived from victories. You can't strip medals and not touch victory counts. Point reset is different subject.
friendly1 wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Symmetry wrote:chapcrap wrote:Symmetry wrote:stripping victories seems like a separate suggestion. If TPTb already have the power to strip medals, it should be employed.
Well, I'm not sure the admin agree.
In any case, it can't be employed separately. If you read what I wrote earlier, you would understand that if you wanted the bronze, silver, gold, and diamond medals stripped, something else must also be done in order for them to remain stripped. Otherwise, they will re-appear. Now, if you wanted other medals (GA, GC, TA, etc.) stripped, that is different. But those medals are (mostly) not really the medals achieved through cheating.
Fair enough. Would it be fair to say that this is tied to a point reset then?
Medals are derived from victories. You can't strip medals and not touch victory counts. Point reset is different subject.
Actually I don't believe it is a terribly big deal to strip or reduce medal counts while not touching victory count. A little bit of coding, but you simply create a subgroup to which named individuals are added. Rules for that subgroup change victories required for medals to a different count.
So if for example you wanted to "lightly" penalize, you could have all medal counts be 10 percent higher for "convicted multis".
Or maybe more extreme, 50% higher count.
friendly1 wrote:Really? So every single multi has 1100 in every war category and has diamonds across the board?
How 1500? That's 50%?
Or if you really want teeth how about 2500 at 150%?
As they are already being punished by being named, having premium removed, etc just where exactly do you see a level that would not be unfair when applied to all multis? I'm not sure that level exists anywhere... which is why admins would have to choose (if they did want something like this enabled) how big an impact or how much bite this has.
Foxglove wrote:Isn't this entire 20 page suggestion and discussion basically a policy choice that needs to be made by the admin? This seems crazy to me. Why would development effort be expended to implement harsh, punitive measures against the tiny handful of people for whom this would be applicable?
There are 10s or 100s of useful, interesting, and inventive game play suggestions that could be developed instead.
Symmetry wrote:If anything, although you are right to say it would be punitive on those accounts that cheated other people, it would restore value to the medals earned legitimately by other players.
patrickaa317 wrote:Symmetry wrote:If anything, although you are right to say it would be punitive on those accounts that cheated other people, it would restore value to the medals earned legitimately by other players.
Outside of most tourney wins or the conqueror medal, I don't think stripping someone of a medal such as standard would do much in the eyes of others. there have been almost 50,000 people who have received a standard medal. If you took away 500 of them, mine still means the same to everyone. It would be more apparent if you slapped a giant asterisk over every medal they have so that people know they may have earned them in a shady way.
Symmetry wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Symmetry wrote:If anything, although you are right to say it would be punitive on those accounts that cheated other people, it would restore value to the medals earned legitimately by other players.
Outside of most tourney wins or the conqueror medal, I don't think stripping someone of a medal such as standard would do much in the eyes of others. there have been almost 50,000 people who have received a standard medal. If you took away 500 of them, mine still means the same to everyone. It would be more apparent if you slapped a giant asterisk over every medal they have so that people know they may have earned them in a shady way.
Then what is the point of a medal in your opinion? If 500 people have it through cheating, doesn't that lessen the worth of yours? Or are you saying that it was worth nothing at all to begin with?
patrickaa317 wrote:Symmetry wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Symmetry wrote:If anything, although you are right to say it would be punitive on those accounts that cheated other people, it would restore value to the medals earned legitimately by other players.
Outside of most tourney wins or the conqueror medal, I don't think stripping someone of a medal such as standard would do much in the eyes of others. there have been almost 50,000 people who have received a standard medal. If you took away 500 of them, mine still means the same to everyone. It would be more apparent if you slapped a giant asterisk over every medal they have so that people know they may have earned them in a shady way.
Then what is the point of a medal in your opinion? If 500 people have it through cheating, doesn't that lessen the worth of yours? Or are you saying that it was worth nothing at all to begin with?
I'm saying when there are 49500 or 50000 others with the medal i have, mine is worth really the same and I enjoy having it. Sure removing medals hurts the people who cheated but to say it restores the value of something handed out that many times is a stretch on things. Do you look at both your medals and get mad about how people maybe cheated in a few games and get frustrated about how your 66 games were devalued because of this?
Symmetry wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Symmetry wrote:patrickaa317 wrote:Symmetry wrote:If anything, although you are right to say it would be punitive on those accounts that cheated other people, it would restore value to the medals earned legitimately by other players.
Outside of most tourney wins or the conqueror medal, I don't think stripping someone of a medal such as standard would do much in the eyes of others. there have been almost 50,000 people who have received a standard medal. If you took away 500 of them, mine still means the same to everyone. It would be more apparent if you slapped a giant asterisk over every medal they have so that people know they may have earned them in a shady way.
Then what is the point of a medal in your opinion? If 500 people have it through cheating, doesn't that lessen the worth of yours? Or are you saying that it was worth nothing at all to begin with?
I'm saying when there are 49500 or 50000 others with the medal i have, mine is worth really the same and I enjoy having it. Sure removing medals hurts the people who cheated but to say it restores the value of something handed out that many times is a stretch on things. Do you look at both your medals and get mad about how people maybe cheated in a few games and get frustrated about how your 66 games were devalued because of this?
Of course, I started a thread about it. I hope that your opposition to this suggestion isn't because of the source of it though.
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