missed turn becoming not missed turn... [Pending]

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Postby wicked on Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:48 am

yeti_c wrote:Once the player takes there turn then the next players turn starts again (i.e. they get 24 hours)

C.


The game is already long enough. I don't like the idea of dragging it out further.

I also agree it'll be WAY too complicated when multiple consecutive players miss turns.
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Postby yeti_c on Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:06 pm

wicked wrote:
yeti_c wrote:Once the player takes there turn then the next players turn starts again (i.e. they get 24 hours)

C.


The game is already long enough. I don't like the idea of dragging it out further.

I also agree it'll be WAY too complicated when multiple consecutive players miss turns.


Yeah but no-one would really notice - cos if the player returned and played... the next player would still play at the same time they were going to play anyway - thus restoring equilibrium...

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Postby kingprawn on Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:17 pm

Hmmmm, It's not a bad idea I suppose. However, I am of the opinion that 24 hours is long enough. I miss the odd turn every now and then but just appologise and continue playing. If you are going on holiday it's simpe enough to organise a babysitter for your account.
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Postby insomniacdude on Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:35 pm

kingprawn wrote:Hmmmm, It's not a bad idea I suppose. However, I am of the opinion that 24 hours is long enough. I miss the odd turn every now and then but just appologise and continue playing. If you are going on holiday it's simpe enough to organise a babysitter for your account.


The idea in the OP wasn't an idea for vacations. It's for those occasional missed turns that you and I both miss by five hours because of randomly busy days. The idea of vacations didn't come up until someone threw another idea onto the OP.
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Postby Forza AZ on Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:45 pm

To prevent that games get much longer you can have a maximum to it. So let's say maximum 12 hours after your turn expired you can still take it. If you miss that period then you can't take your turn any more and you really have missed it. This will prevent games taking much longer then now, since at the time the 36 hours limit expires the time for the next players turn is also already halfway. Also there won't be a problem with 2 players in a row that miss their turn.
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Postby Stoney229 on Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:46 pm

yeti_c wrote:
insomniacdude wrote:
yeti_c wrote:Once the player takes there turn then the next players turn starts again (i.e. they get 24 hours)

C.


Hm. Another decent option. I don't know if I like the idea of a max 14 day wait in 8p games, but the safety net might be nice to offset that.

That would also be nice for team games. If a player wants the advise of his teammates no how toe react to a new move, they might not achieve that with only four hours left.


Here's another problem though...

Say player 1 skips... OK whilst player 2 can take his turn player 1 still can...

Then player 2 skips... can Player 1 still pick up his turn whilst player 3 *can* play?

(Thus resetting it to player 2's turn...)

If so - then this could be an elegant solution to a vacation flag... i.e. you just leave it rolling until the player that has gone away and plays their turn... it then rolls all the way back to his initial skipped turn and the game carries on...

In this instance though you would want to *not* have a 3 turn deadbeat... (i.e. if everyone is missing their turns then don't deadbeat people out)

C.

No, player one would be able to take his turn until the next scheduled player starts his/her turn. So when player 1 finishes his late turn... it still resets to player 3's turn... but player 2 will still be able to take his/her turn until player 3 starts their turn on schedule. Not too complicated. works perfectly as far as I can tell.

Granted, it has the potential to make rounds longer, but I think this would not happen often, and the benefit is worth the cost.... not to mention that this does not have to be a mandatory feature, but can be an option to be decided upon by the game creator.
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Postby Stoney229 on Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:50 pm

also, I see no reason why this cannot be applied to freestyle games. If you miss your turn by a couple minutes, then it is likely that no one else will have taken their turn yet... so you should be able to have the option of taking your turn from from previous round, and when you are done the round is reset as though you were the last person to take a turn in the previous round (i.e. you still cannot take a double-turn).
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Postby Mr_Adams on Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:25 pm

Response to "to confusing if I get on while it's HE/SHE is playing his should-be missed turn."


wow that's a long title...


well, this would then show up like a freestyle game, with a little green dot next to player one AND player two's names, until player 2 starts his/her turn. also, you would not have a possibility of 48 hours to take your turn. if player one's time runs out, player two's timer starts, if player two's time runs out, player 3 then begins his timer, and NOW player 1 has a missed turn for sure. or if player 2 begins his/her turn before player one, player one now has a missed turn. The idea is just that if player one gets on before player 2's turn starts but after player 1's own turn ends, player 1 now has the opprotunity to take that turn, despite being late...
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Postby laci_mae on Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:06 pm

I agree with all the benefits that have been put forth. I also see the conflict of interest with the person who's time is being utilized.

The other part of this discussion must be the effect on the other players in the game. Would everyone's turns be pushed back? I see potential for abuse if you know the next player is a deadbeat, and even more so if the last 2 or 3 players (say in an 8 person game) are new recruit deadbeats.

Were this option enacted, I don't believe it would affect my play very often. I just thought I might chime in as devil's advocate.

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Postby Fruitcake on Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:28 am

Call me a party pooper, but I think this is not a good idea.

It panders to those who cannot be bothered to do anything on time. Yes some miss their turn because they have not been able to get to the site, but many are just bone bloody idle.

It also introduces more thought for strategy, and ensures the poor turn taker following, if he wants to take advantage of the bone idle twat who misssed his turn, then has to make sure he is standing by as soon as the 24 hours is up, thus making it a negative reward for those who take their turns, and a positive reward for those who miss.
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Postby _big_easy_ on Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:28 am

How about a middle-of-the-road solution?

If you miss your turn, having had 24-hours to take it,
and the next player hasn't yet started, you can take your turn.

If at any point during you late-turn-taking the player whose turn it should be starts his turn,
your turn is automatically ended, similar to running out of time.

That way the person whose turn it actually IS can play exactly like normal,
and while yes, it sucks that you (the misser) didn't get to finish your turn,
you still had more opportunities than you'd have had if you just missed it, period.

Some potential for abuse, (waiting for the misser to start his turn before yours) but it's not really feasible,
and anywyas, he missed his turn in the first place, so cry me a river, right?
And you could jigger it so that if the misser hadn't yet deployed his armies,
they would revert back to "Deferred" status like the current setup.
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Postby insomniacdude on Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:50 pm

Fruitcake wrote:Call me a party pooper, but I think this is not a good idea.

It panders to those who cannot be bothered to do anything on time. Yes some miss their turn because they have not been able to get to the site, but many are just bone bloody idle.

It also introduces more thought for strategy, and ensures the poor turn taker following, if he wants to take advantage of the bone idle twat who misssed his turn, then has to make sure he is standing by as soon as the 24 hours is up, thus making it a negative reward for those who take their turns, and a positive reward for those who miss.


Party-pooper. :P :wink:

I disagree with your point profusely. There was a huge tiff about deferred armies and how people who miss turns should not use it strategically to better the game. The same should apply for everybody else: You shouldn't be able to manipulate somebody else's missed turn to your strategic benefit., Or it becomes a double standard.

It will happen regardless, just like missing turns happens regardless, so we can't get rid of rewards entirely, but we should still limit them as much as possible.
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Postby Fruitcake on Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:22 pm

insomniacdude wrote:Party-pooper. :P :wink:

I disagree with your point profusely. There was a huge tiff about deferred armies and how people who miss turns should not use it strategically to better the game. The same should apply for everybody else: You shouldn't be able to manipulate somebody else's missed turn to your strategic benefit., Or it becomes a double standard.

It will happen regardless, just like missing turns happens regardless, so we can't get rid of rewards entirely, but we should still limit them as much as possible.


Pooh pooh to your calling me a party pooper :-^

I should say that I think there should be some kind of stronger punishment anyway, but in the famous words of someone...
But we've done this do-si-do before, so I'll say nothing more beyond that :wink:

OK, let's get serious.

My argument is that we are rewarding those who are just too bloody lazy to think about other players. Yes this, in a way, punishes those who have a genuine reason for missing their turn, but isn't this why players are still able to pick up their just desserts when their turn next comes round?

I think those who are more diligent, should be rewarded, and yes perhaps they can use it to their advantage, I have done so on numerous occasions.

In short, those who miss turns are rewarded by having the facility to add, post attack, so there is already, in my humble opinion, enough for them.

EDIT: I do, however, think the idea by _big_easy_ has legs, if refined.
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Postby Fruitcake on Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:32 pm

lackattack wrote:Very interesting. I'll put it as "Pending".


With respect, wouldn't your attention be better put to sorting the site problems out.
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new turn status

Postby Arbotross on Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:56 pm

maybe only give the person taking there (reclaimed) turn 5 minutes (which is nearly always enough time) to take there turn so that the players whose turn it really is doesn't have to wait up to an hour because some player who couldn't make there turn was being a dick

Also you can't plan on doing this to take your turns and it won't benifit the lazy people anymore than it would anyone else who has other commitments you can take your turn (say within 12 hours or something but that may be a bit too long) only if the next person hasn't and if you manage to take your turn, great but no one should get a time bonus because the person who is taking there turn shouldn't be given regular time to do it, that would be a penalization(granted not a large one) in itself
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Postby cicero on Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:12 am

Fruitcake wrote:
lackattack wrote:Very interesting. I'll put it as "Pending".


With respect, wouldn't your attention be better put to sorting the site problems out.

"Without respect" appears to be what you meant.

Notwithstanding that Lack gets to prioritise his time as he wishes.
The time to mark this suggestion as 'Pending' is not going to greatly distract him from whatever his current priorities are.
Or if, as perhaps you meant, the time to actually code this would be a distraction that still doesn't mean that he isn't going to 'sort the site problems out' first anwyay.

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Postby Mr_Adams on Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:33 pm

_big_easy_ wrote:How about a middle-of-the-road solution?

If you miss your turn, having had 24-hours to take it,
and the next player hasn't yet started, you can take your turn.

If at any point during you late-turn-taking the player whose turn it should be starts his turn,
your turn is automatically ended, similar to running out of time.

That way the person whose turn it actually IS can play exactly like normal,
and while yes, it sucks that you (the misser) didn't get to finish your turn,
you still had more opportunities than you'd have had if you just missed it, period.

Some potential for abuse, (waiting for the misser to start his turn before yours) but it's not really feasible,
and anywyas, he missed his turn in the first place, so cry me a river, right?
And you could jigger it so that if the misser hadn't yet deployed his armies,
they would revert back to "Deferred" status like the current setup.


That was the original idea buddy, so how is this a "middle of the road" solution?
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Postby Stoney229 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:25 pm

Mr_Adams wrote:
_big_easy_ wrote:How about a middle-of-the-road solution?

If you miss your turn, having had 24-hours to take it,
and the next player hasn't yet started, you can take your turn.

If at any point during you late-turn-taking the player whose turn it should be starts his turn,
your turn is automatically ended, similar to running out of time.

That way the person whose turn it actually IS can play exactly like normal,
and while yes, it sucks that you (the misser) didn't get to finish your turn,
you still had more opportunities than you'd have had if you just missed it, period.

Some potential for abuse, (waiting for the misser to start his turn before yours) but it's not really feasible,
and anywyas, he missed his turn in the first place, so cry me a river, right?
And you could jigger it so that if the misser hadn't yet deployed his armies,
they would revert back to "Deferred" status like the current setup.


That was the original idea buddy, so how is this a "middle of the road" solution?
As far as I can tell, the OP didn't suggest that the late player's turn would be cut short without warning if the scheduled player began his/her turn. I, for one, am opposed to this "middle-of-the-road" idea, as there it can easily be abused, and the OP cannot (as far as i can tell)
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Postby yeti_c on Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:26 am

I have thought of another issue...

Say - 24 hours pass - P1 misses turn...

23 hours pass - P1 starts turn... thus blocking P2 for an hour... thus missing P2's turn...

P3 then starts a turn... P2 skips because P1 has blocked his last hour...

This is why I advocate the resetting of the clock after P1 has played their turn...

(Also I still like the rolling miss idea which would solve vacation games (See previous post by me))

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Postby wicked on Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:33 am

The only way I'd back this idea is if the person who missed their turn only got 5 minutes to take their turn when they came on (alternatively make it like a speed game clock where time would be extended if someone was taken out). That way both players could see the game clock at 5 minutes or less, and it wouldn't put anybody out or extend the game, which is what all the options presented so far would do. Also, this way there's little potential for abuse by the player who missed taking much time out of the next player's alloted time.

The player who missed would have the option of taking their turn then and there very quickly, or waiting another round to go.
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Postby Stoney229 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:51 pm

yeti_c wrote:I have thought of another issue...

Say - 24 hours pass - P1 misses turn...

23 hours pass - P1 starts turn... thus blocking P2 for an hour... thus missing P2's turn...

P3 then starts a turn... P2 skips because P1 has blocked his last hour...

This is why I advocate the resetting of the clock after P1 has played their turn...

(Also I still like the rolling miss idea which would solve vacation games (See previous post by me))

C.
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Postby Stoney229 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:52 pm

wicked wrote:The only way I'd back this idea is if the person who missed their turn only got 5 minutes to take their turn when they came on (alternatively make it like a speed game clock where time would be extended if someone was taken out). That way both players could see the game clock at 5 minutes or less, and it wouldn't put anybody out or extend the game, which is what all the options presented so far would do. Also, this way there's little potential for abuse by the player who missed taking much time out of the next player's alloted time.

The player who missed would have the option of taking their turn then and there very quickly, or waiting another round to go.
This works, I think.
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Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:34 am

Love it!

Wicked, you have a decent point, but there already is a turn limit -- one hour. Usually, folks don't take nearly that long unless the server is having issues or something happens in their real life to take them away.

Perhaps this could be implemented on a trial basis and, if this time issue is a problem, the late turn could be reduced -- say, to 1/2 hour or so.
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Postby wicked on Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:45 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:Love it!

Wicked, you have a decent point, but there already is a turn limit -- one hour. Usually, folks don't take nearly that long unless the server is having issues or something happens in their real life to take them away.

Perhaps this could be implemented on a trial basis and, if this time issue is a problem, the late turn could be reduced -- say, to 1/2 hour or so.


Yes I know that. ;-) My point being if you're using borrowed time, you better be quick about it. Because the next player may only have so much time to take their turns, and if they have to wait on you, you better be quick about it. I can see the potential for abuse if say I notice player 2 is online and I run to that game to open my turn, then wait an hour to take the turn at my leisure. Since you're working on borrowed time, you shouldn't inconvenience player 2 AT ALL.

There should be a message when you enter the game that reads something like, "you've missed the 24 hours allotted for your turn. However, you have the option of playing your turn now in 5 minutes, or waiting for the next round."
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Postby trk1994 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:51 pm

If anything to this effect is implemented then I feel the "defered armies" b/c of missed turns rule should be done away with. A total of 36 or what ever hours should be more than enough to take a turn. If you still miss after that there is no reason to allow someone to recover missed armies. The grace period to take the turn is not really a bad idea but making too many concessions to slackers will get old real fast. I understand that real life gets in the way sometimes and that comment does not refer to those times. But as with anything in life there are rules and consequenes for not following them. I don't intend to sound mean just stating fact. If I miss then i should face the same punishment, whether it's my fault I missed or not.
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