Conquer Club

And yes, seeing as we were targeted in 2 games, I want my 72 points back please.

i am in a 3 person assassin game. i thought they were cheating or maybe multis. i checked the cheating forums and saw that they busted for being multis. however, i am still going to lose this game to the one person playing under two IDs.

the reason being that anyone busted for being a multi is allowed to finish their current games.

i would like to propose that if a person is caught cheating, all IDs should immediately be booted from all games. boot them like they would be for missing too many turns.

I agree. It's a simple case of creating a script that piggybacks on the busting tool the hunters have, that finds all their games and runs the "deadbeat" script on each of them. The code is already there, just needs to be stitched together.

awesome! let's run it before i lose this game!

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=68025 Already has been a long-running issue.

if you ran a process on busted multis like you do deadbeats, then problem solved.

yeti_c wrote:

lancehoch wrote:

owenshooter wrote:question, when a person is busted for multiple accounts, why are they allowed to play out their games, possibly taking points off of members that are not cheats?

This is because the busted player still has the right to appeal. If they are cleared after a second look and they have done nothing wrong, then why should they have been forced to lose all of their active games?

As stated before - the people who successfully appeal are far outweighed by the people in the games that are ruined by having multi's that are still alive...

In fact the number of multi's will be outweighed heavily by the number of people in the games that they are ruining.

So - My point is - take the punishment away from the many and give it to the few - especially as 90% of those few are cheaters.
C.

As someone who is in 90+ games at a time routinely, I would be incredibly angry if I were found to be a multi (in error) only to be reinstated but having lost all of my games! Angry enough that I wouldn't return, quite honestly.

As much as I despite multi's, I agree with lancehoch on this one.

yeti_c wrote:

lancehoch wrote:

owenshooter wrote:exactly lance! so why not just turn them neutral instead of discussing deleting them? i love when people argue my points for me in round about ways! i knew you would see the light lance!!!-0

I guess I was slightly off topic there, but turning them neutral would have a similar effect as not letting the person take their turns (well, the same effect, just 72 hours sooner). The reason I do not like the idea is that there are people who are incorrectly busted (see the incident a few weeks ago where 50 people were wrongly busted by accident) and this does not allow them any leeway for clearing their names.

Agreed - but that is due to an error in the Bust system - and not the norm...

Without that specific issue involved (which should be fixed but hasn't been) the percentages far outweigh any potential "oh noes I got busted but I wasn't a multi" in comparison to "fucking multis stole my points again even though they got busted 2 weeks ago".

C.

Rules should be created to protect the minority, even if it means that some of the "criminals" may go free. This is basic to our system of law. To create a rule where the innocent are damaged is not a healthy rule.

Woodruff wrote: To create a rule where the innocent are damaged is not a healthy rule.

that is exactly what's happening, though. i'm going to lose a game to a "busted" multi.

at my job, i make decisions on a daily basis. i am not allowed the luxury of making decisions anticipating being wrong. if i made a decision, my team trusts i am right. if someone is busted as being a multi, then i trust the multi hunter is right.

even as a player of 90 plus games at a time, could you not trust the mutli hunters to know that you are legit?

broncojd78 wrote:

Woodruff wrote: To create a rule where the innocent are damaged is not a healthy rule.

that is exactly what's happening, though. i'm going to lose a game to a "busted" multi.

Damage in one or possibly two games versus damage over ALL of your games? That's a tremendous difference in scope, and I think that is the key.

broncojd78 wrote:at my job, i make decisions on a daily basis. i am not allowed the luxury of making decisions anticipating being wrong. if i made a decision, my team trusts i am right. if someone is busted as being a multi, then i trust the multi hunter is right.

Humans make mistakes. Laws should be developed so that our human-ness does not CAUSE any more problems than necessary.

broncojd78 wrote:even as a player of 90 plus games at a time, could you not trust the mutli hunters to know that you are legit?

I DO trust that I'll never be found to be a multi, simply because I know that I am not one and nobody else in my household plays on ConquerClub (my wife is an infidel non-game-player!). However, mistakes DO happen. It's entirely within the realm of possibility that I could be found to be a multi incorrectly.

I didn't read all the posts, so I don't know if it's been mentioned. However it would really be a simple process:

When the admins ban a multi, the code (not the admin) goes through and finds all the multi's games and automatically kills him off in the game, turning his troops into neutral. If he was the second to last person in the game, then the other person will automatically win (yay).

If the multi is part of a team game that's where it would be confusing. You don't want to punish the teammate too hard, because he didn't know he was teamed up with a multi. So perhaps passing off cards could help, or maybe give the multi's troop bonuses to the teammate, but not calculated together, so if the multi owns the top half of africa and the teammate owns the bottom, he doesn't all of a sudden get all of africa, but rather he gets the bonuses of the multi as a separate bonus.

Well I don't know, team games would be tough. I think if a multi just got banned from a team game it would pretty much kill the chances of the teammate winning.

4myGod wrote: Well I don't know, team games would be tough. I think if a multi just got banned from a team game it would pretty much kill the chances of the teammate winning.

as the rules are now, when someone deadbeats in a team game, their partner receives their territories. so, i don't think that would cause a problem. however, i would love to state that i hate that rule change, and it is the one rule that can change the dynamic of a game instantly, if you aren't smart enough to try and start killing off the player in danger of deadbeatiing...-0

Woodruff wrote:

broncojd78 wrote:

Woodruff wrote: To create a rule where the innocent are damaged is not a healthy rule.

that is exactly what's happening, though. i'm going to lose a game to a "busted" multi.

Damage in one or possibly two games versus damage over ALL of your games? That's a tremendous difference in scope, and I think that is the key.

How about the difference between the amount of people who are wrongfully busted, and those who are negatively affected by actual multis?

Timminz wrote:

Woodruff wrote:Damage in one or possibly two games versus damage over ALL of your games? That's a tremendous difference in scope, and I think that is the key.

How about the difference between the amount of people who are wrongfully busted, and those who are negatively affected by actual multis?

Exactly. The number of games played v multies far outweighs the number of games played by wrongly busted people.

so what is going on? its been a few weeks now and still no word. should i start cheating to? I'll pay to cheat and start a 100 games with 8 players in each of them and screw everyone. conquer club will make some money and i will feel better. come on conquer club time to get hard on multi's or maybe u should change the site back to Cutesy Club

Lack is working away. Stay tuned.


--Andy

I think I see a fair compromise. Instead of deleting the games, why not freeze the games that the suspected multis are in, and if they are proven innocent, the games can be unfreezed.

slowreactor wrote:I think I see a fair compromise. Instead of deleting the games, why not freeze the games that the suspected multis are in, and if they are proven innocent, the games can be unfreezed.

At least a temporary freeze (maybe a week, to see what the "I'm not cheating" response is from the alleged multi) seems like a reasonable solution. That way, the game doesn't get ruined by an incorrect multi-cheating-ruling and if they are determined at that point to still be a mutli-cheater, then their account can just be locked and they'll 3-turn-bust out of the game as it continues to be played.

Done.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=89355&start=0


--Andy

Lack Attack wrote:From now on, inactivated multies will be immediately auto-kicked from their games and will also be auto-dropped from any waiting games. Same goes for members who are given website bans for whatever reason and for whatever length of time. Just like when players are auto-kicked for missing too many turns...

COOL BEANS! and well done.

Result!

Thanks lack!