Simple farming fix

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Simple farming fix

Postby The Neon Peon on Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:53 pm

Concise description:
  • New Score Equation: (loser's score / winner's score)^2 * 20

Specifics:
  • We have outlined new recruit farming as "bad," yet it is quite clear that the general community also dislikes low rank farming. Let's face it, nothing good comes out of it, and therefore even if you believe that it is a perfectly normal thing, then the complaints about it alone make it have an overall negative effect.
  • The new fix will do the following: the farther away your opponents score is from yours, the more points you will win or lose from that person. If you play people about your rank (give or take 5% of score), you might see a measly 1 point difference in the transfer of points. If you choose to play people of half your rank, you will gain 5 points instead of 10 and lose 80 points instead of 40. Meaning, that playing people below your rank is now definitely not worth it.
  • The overall effect is that those who play against higher ranks will rise in points, those who play against lower ranks will fall in points, and then those who play about their own rank will experience no change in score.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
  • No more low rank farming (the people who do it will become low ranked themselves)
  • No more complaints about low rank farming.

Answering some things before they come up:
  • The farming will probably switch from high ranks farming on low ranks, to low ranks trying to join any game they possibly can with high ranks. We might make the cap different depending on score, the one that right now says no more than 100 points can be lost by any rank, we might adjust that to be influenced by your score somehow. Would not be too hard.
  • There will be point deflation. Many of the high ranks we have now will no longer be able to keep their scores (even if they continue to play against majors ad captains.) However, all the high-er ranks will drop, the drop increasing more and more the higher up you go, meaning that the scoreboard positions are unlikely to change much, although the people who play their own rank, will get higher.
  • No, this is not a jealousy attack on King H*****, I would think that his rank would fall, although I do think he will stay in the top few among the scoreboard. He is a good player at freestyle and 1v1s, win rate being high enough to maintain a high score even if he earns only a third of the points he does now.
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby DarthBlood on Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:59 pm

this is obviously not gonna pass...just the fact that you said playing people at your own level will only get you a point change of around 1-5 points...people don't like deflation.
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby Blinkadyblink on Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:09 pm

I like this idea a lot. My one concern is that the squared seems kind of arbitrary, maybe we could try this out and adjust the numbers a little to see how different ones work. Assuming it gets implemented, of course.
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby The Neon Peon on Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:15 pm

DarthBlood wrote:this is obviously not gonna pass...just the fact that you said playing people at your own level will only get you a point change of around 1-5 points...people don't like deflation.

Deflation happens, and seeing as CC has been going through a point inflation for the past 3 years, I think it is eventually necessary. At the rate we are going, we'll have about 50 generals and 15 field marshals by June it seems.
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby sailorseal on Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:57 pm

Low ranks cannot be stereotyped, I am at a low right now but I just beat a major and a captain (Well they were)
so my point is that there needs to be more to describe the low rank n00b then just their rank...
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby The Neon Peon on Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:57 am

sailorseal wrote:Low ranks cannot be stereotyped, I am at a low right now but I just beat a major and a captain (Well they were)
so my point is that there needs to be more to describe the low rank n00b then just their rank...

If you actually read my post, then you will find that I said nothing about anyone being a "n00b" or having bad strategy or anything about low ranks other than that they are the target of farming these days (if you want to debate that there are no high ranks that prey on low ranks, you might want to take a look at the first few spots on the scoreboard).

But seeing as I assumed you had based your accusation on something you might have found in my post about cooks being bad or something, I answered it anyways before I actually thought about reading my own post:

show
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby Boss_oss_ss on Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:28 am

this defo wont work- what happens if a low player joins a game witgh a high ranked player- that doesnt make him a farmer yet he would only get 1 point!
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby sailorseal on Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:43 pm

Also I have very low ranked friends and if I play them I might be killed in points (Exactly how I ended up as a corporal)
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby AceArtemis on Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:56 pm

The problem I can see with this is that no high-ranked player would join public games anymore for fear of low ranked players joining.
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby Jeff Hardy on Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:21 am

The Neon Peon wrote:If you choose to play people of half your rank, you will gain 5 points instead of 10 and lose 80 points instead of 40. Meaning, that playing people below your rank is now definitely not worth it.

whoa, how retarded is that!

if i played against a captain/major i have to win 16 out of 17 games just to break even

the current system already means i have to win 4 out of 5 which is very hard because a lot of low majors/high captains are very skilled and with a bit of luck they can win 1 out of 5 easily, making it 16 out of 17 would be complete bullshit and would make it impossible for high ranks to start games regularly
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby a.sub on Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:16 pm

i took the time to find data enjoy!


Player 1…Player 2… ratio … ratio^2…New points…Old Points…% diff
100 … 1000 … 0.1 … 0.01 … 0.2 … 2 … 10%
200 … 1000 … 0.2 … 0.04 … 0.8 … 4 … 20%
300 … 1000 … 0.3 … 0.09 … 1.8 … 6 … 30%
400 … 1000 … 0.4 … 0.16 … 3.2 … 8 … 40%
500 … 1000 … 0.5 … 0.25 … 5 … 10 … 50%
600 … 1000 … 0.6 … 0.36 … 7.2 … 12 … 60%
700 … 1000 … 0.7 … 0.49 … 9.8 … 14 … 70%
800 … 1000 … 0.8 … 0.64 … 12.8 … 16 … 80%
900 … 1000 … 0.9 … 0.81 … 16.2 … 18 … 90%
1000 … 1000 … 1 … 1 … 20 … 20 … 100%
1100 … 1000 … 1.1 … 1.21 … 24.2 … 22 … 110%
1200 … 1000 … 1.2 … 1.44 … 28.8 … 24 … 120%
1300 … 1000 … 1.3 … 1.69 … 33.8 … 26 … 130%
1400 … 1000 … 1.4 … 1.96 … 39.2 … 28 … 140%
1500 … 1000 … 1.5 … 2.25 … 45 … 30 … 150%
1600 … 1000 … 1.6 … 2.56 … 51.2 … 32 … 160%
1700 … 1000 … 1.7 … 2.89 … 57.8 … 34 … 170%
1800 … 1000 … 1.8 … 3.24 … 64.8 … 36 … 180%
1900 … 1000 … 1.9 … 3.61 … 72.2 … 38 … 190%
2000 … 1000 … 2 … 4 … 80 … 40 … 200%
2100 … 1000 … 2.1 … 4.41 … 88.2 … 42 … 210%
2200 … 1000 … 2.2 … 4.84 … 96.8 … 44 … 220%
2300 … 1000 … 2.3 … 5.29 … 105.8 … 46 … 230%
2400 … 1000 … 2.4 … 5.76 … 115.2 … 48 … 240%
2500 … 1000 … 2.5 … 6.25 … 125 … 50 … 250%
2600 … 1000 … 2.6 … 6.76 … 135.2 … 52 … 260%
2700 … 1000 … 2.7 … 7.29 … 145.8 … 54 … 270%
2800 … 1000 … 2.8 … 7.84 … 156.8 … 56 … 280%
2900 … 1000 … 2.9 … 8.41 … 168.2 … 58 … 290%
3000 … 1000 … 3 … 9 … 180 … 60 … 300%
3100 … 1000 … 3.1 … 9.61 … 192.2 … 62 … 310%
3200 … 1000 … 3.2 … 10.24 … 204.8 … 64 … 320%
3300 … 1000 … 3.3 … 10.89 … 217.8 … 66 … 330%
3400 … 1000 … 3.4 … 11.56 … 231.2 … 68 … 340%
3500 … 1000 … 3.5 … 12.25 … 245 … 70 … 350%
3600 … 1000 … 3.6 … 12.96 … 259.2 … 72 … 360%
3700 … 1000 … 3.7 … 13.69 … 273.8 … 74 … 370%
3800 … 1000 … 3.8 … 14.44 … 288.8 … 76 … 380%
3900 … 1000 … 3.9 … 15.21 … 304.2 … 78 … 390%
4000 … 1000 … 4 … 16 … 320 … 80 … 400%
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby the.killing.44 on Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:02 am

a.sub wrote:i took the time to find data enjoy!


Player 1... Player 2...ratio … ratio^2...... New points…Old Points…% diff
100 ...... 1000 ......... 0.1....... 0.01........... 0.2 .......... 2.........10%
200 ...... 1000 ......... 0.2........ 0.04........... 0.8.......... 4.........20%
300 ...... 1000 ......... 0.3....... 0.09............ 1.8.......... 6.........30%
400 ...... 1000 ......... 0.4....... 0.16............ 3.2.......... 8.........40%
500 ...... 1000 ......... 0.5....... 0.25........... 5............ 10.........50%
600 ...... 1000 ......... 0.6....... 0.36........... 7.2.......... 12.........60%
700 ...... 1000 ......... 0.7....... 0.49........... 9.8.......... 14.........70%
800 ...... 1000 ......... 0.8....... 0.64........... 12.8......... 16.........80%
900 ...... 1000 ......... 0.9....... 0.81........... 16.2......... 18.........90%
1000 ...... 1000 ....... 1 ......... 1............... 20............ 20.........100%
1100 ...... 1000 ...... 1.1...... 1.21........... 24.2......... 22.........110%
1200 ...... 1000 ...... 1.2...... 1.44........... 28.8......... 24.........120%
1300 ...... 1000 ...... 1.3...... 1.69........... 33.8......... 26.........130%
1400 ...... 1000 ...... 1.4...... 1.96........... 39.2......... 28.........140%
1500 ...... 1000 ...... 1.5...... 2.25........... 45 ........... 30.........150%
1600 ...... 1000 ...... 1.6...... 2.56........... 51.2 ......... 32.........160%
1700 ...... 1000 ...... 1.7...... 2.89........... 57.8 ......... 34.........170%
1800 ...... 1000 ...... 1.8...... 3.24........... 64.8 ......... 36.........180%
1900 ...... 1000 ...... 1.9...... 3.61........... 72.2 ......... 38.........190%
2000 ...... 1000 ...... 2 ....... 4................ 80 ........... 40.........200%
2100 ...... 1000 ...... 2.1...... 4.41........... 88.2 ......... 42.........210%
2200 ...... 1000 ...... 2.2...... 4.84........... 96.8 ......... 44.........220%
2300 ...... 1000 ...... 2.3...... 5.29........... 105.8 ........ 46.........230%
2400 ...... 1000 ...... 2.4...... 5.76........... 115.2 ........ 48.........240%
2500 ...... 1000 ...... 2.5...... 6.25........... 125 .......... 50........, 250%
2600 ...... 1000 ...... 2.6...... 6.76........... 135.2 ........ 52.........260%
2700 ...... 1000 ...... 2.7...... 7.29........... 145.8 ........ 54.........270%
2800 ...... 1000 ...... 2.8...... 7.84........... 156.8 ........ 56.........280%
2900 ...... 1000 ...... 2.9...... 8.41........... 168.2 ........ 58.........290%
3000 ...... 1000 ...... 3............9 ............... 180 .......... 60........300%
3100 ...... 1000 ...... 3.1...... 9.61........... 192.2 ........ 62.........310%
3200 ...... 1000 ...... 3.2...... 10.24.......... 204.8 ........ 64.........320%
3300 ...... 1000 ...... 3.3...... 10.89.......... 217.8 ........ 66.........330%
3400 ...... 1000 ...... 3.4...... 11.56.......... 231.2 ........ 68.........340%
3500 ...... 1000 ...... 3.5...... 12.25.......... 245 .......... 70.........350%
3600 ...... 1000 ...... 3.6...... 12.96.......... 259.2 ........ 72.........360%
3700 ...... 1000 ...... 3.7...... 13.69.......... 273.8 ........ 74.........370%
3800 ...... 1000 ...... 3.8...... 14.44.......... 288.8 ........ 76.........380%
3900 ...... 1000 ...... 3.9...... 15.21.......... 304.2 ........ 78 .........390%
4000 ...... 1000 ...... 4 ........ 16 ............. 320.........80.........400%

fixed cuz i'm bored

.44
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby a.sub on Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:28 am

thx .44 i was a bit too lazy to do that, i just copied and pasted from excel lmao
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby Artimis on Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:18 am

Don't forget maximum points gained are capped at 100, so the points transferred would max out for a player with 1000 points when beating a player of approximately 2237 in score.

Section of interest wrote:Player 1... Player 2...ratio … ratio^2...... New points…Old Points…% diff
2200 ...... 1000 ...... 2.2...... 4.84........... 96.8 ......... 44.........220%
2300 ...... 1000 ...... 2.3...... 5.29........... 105.8 ........ 46.........230%
.44



The side effects will be:

    1) Makes high ranked players a massive target, points snobbery will increase ten fold(Bad).
    2) Points dumping becomes even more viable as an option for catapulting up the score board(Very Bad).
    3) Deflation is guaranteed(Don't know).

The real question is can we accept the side effects of this suggestion as the price for permanently crippling the farmers ability to accrue points?
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby Blinkadyblink on Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:37 pm

Right now the scoring formula is ((loser's score/winner's score)^1)*20, and it is easy for high ranking players to amass points by playing very low ranking players. It seems that most people's concern is that by changing the formula to ((loser's score/winner's score)^2)*20, we would reverse that, making it easy to get points by targeting high ranks. As I said in my first post, squared seems kind of arbitrary, so perhaps there is a middle ground. If using 1 as the exponent benefits high ranks and using 2 benefits low ranks, perhaps there is some middle ground that would be fair to everyone? Just because the details might not be perfect yet does not mean that we should discount this suggestion.
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby a.sub on Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:03 pm

First off lets get one thing strait, high ranks abusing all the low ranks for easy points is not the only form of farming there are people who farm higher ranks. the way this is done in in high rank partner games. here say a general and a cook may face off against two generals. what happens is because one team has a cook they get more point when in reality the general is making all the calls and the cook is just there to make the point difference higher.

this idea makes one better and the other more problematic
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby john9blue on Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:40 am

Occasionally I'll be beaten by a low-ranked player (say, 1000 points or so) in a large game. Usually it's due to plain bad luck, which happens. Do you think I deserve to lose 100 points for that? :shock:
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby a.sub on Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:14 am

i think it should eb two way
((difference of score)^2)*20/(winners score)

something like that
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby Jeff Hardy on Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:32 pm

a.sub wrote:i think it should eb two way
((difference of score)^2)*20/(winners score)

something like that

:lol:

so if a player with 3000 beats a player with 1000 they get (2000^2)*20/3000

stop to think how much that is the player of 3000 gets for beating the 1000 player
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby sailorseal on Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:40 pm

Jeff Hardy wrote:
a.sub wrote:i think it should eb two way
((difference of score)^2)*20/(winners score)

something like that

:lol:

so if a player with 3000 beats a player with 1000 they get (2000^2)*20/3000

stop to think how much that is the player of 3000 gets for beating the 1000 player

I concur...
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby Timminz on Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:00 pm

a.sub wrote:i think it should eb two way
((difference of score)^2)*20/(winners score)

something like that

So, when people with the same score play against each other, they win/lose nothing?
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby Jeff Hardy on Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:08 pm

Timminz wrote:
a.sub wrote:i think it should eb two way
((difference of score)^2)*20/(winners score)

something like that

So, when people with the same score play against each other, they win/lose nothing?

that is nowhere near the biggest error in his system, did you read my post?
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby Timminz on Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:02 pm

Jeff Hardy wrote:
Timminz wrote:
a.sub wrote:i think it should eb two way
((difference of score)^2)*20/(winners score)

something like that

So, when people with the same score play against each other, they win/lose nothing?

that is nowhere near the biggest error in his system, did you read my post?

It's hard to define a "biggest error" when there are so many great ones.
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby john9blue on Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:14 pm

a.sub wrote:i think it should eb two way
((difference of score)^2)*20/(winners score)

something like that


I am all for this new system. I can't wait to gain tens of thousands of points per game.

However, if you change "difference" to "quotient" and remove the "^2" and "(winners score)", then we have a real problem. :lol:
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Re: Simple farming fix

Postby Fruitcake on Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:22 pm

I might be confused, but this system seems to reward poor players.

A high rank has nothing to gain from playing anyone, but low ranks can gain points at a far faster rate than anything seen to date. Now I am fully aware of the farming problem, but I fail to see this as logical. have you even considered the effect this would have on clan challenges? They would disappear overnight along with most of the tournaments. Not what lack wants to see at all.

You don't make a society richer by punishing the successful, you do it by a more egalitarian approach to wealth (in this case points). From what i can see you just want to introduce an effectively higher taxation on high ranks without giving them anything in return....
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