Remove maximum point loss to deter farming

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Remove maximum point loss to deter farming

Postby GenuineEarlGrey on Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:08 pm

Concise description: Remove the maximum number of points a player can lose in a game.

Specifics:
  • Current scoring: The points to be awarded is calculated as (loser's score / winner's score) * 20, up to a maximum of 100 points from each opponent.
  • Proposed scoring: Remove the maximum so is The points to be awarded is calculated as (loser's score / winner's score) * 20.

Who will it effect:
  • Mainly higher ranked players (Brigadier and above) if they play a Cook or (for Field Marshals only) Cadet.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
  • A simple change to the scoring.
  • Changes risk/reward ratio for anyone farming at the top end of the scale.
  • Won't effect many but will provide a sharp-shock to those who it does.
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Re: Remove maximum point loss to deter farming

Postby sully800 on Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:54 pm

There is no way it should be removed but it could be increased to 150 perhaps. Unfortunately I don't think most high rankers run into the limit frequently so I don't think it would change anything. (4000/800)*20=1000 and there are not that many people over 4000 points. So you would have to be playing a cook to hit the max, all cadets would still be fair game as you already said.


The reason it can't be removed: As the winners points approach zero, the points gained approach infinity.

Example: A person dumps their points to reach the lower limit of 1 (yes its illegal but still possible). Then wins a game against 7 people each of whom have 2000 points (common enough)

(2000*7/1)*20 = 280,000 points for the winner

With no cap on point gains, the best way to get to the top is to first go to the bottom. In fact, that is the exact reason the point cap was first implemented, and luckily it was established before the system was ever abused.
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Re: Remove maximum point loss to deter farming

Postby Fipa on Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:08 pm

sully800 wrote:There is no way it should be removed but it could be increased to 150 perhaps. Unfortunately I don't think most high rankers run into the limit frequently so I don't think it would change anything. (4000/800)*20=1000 and there are not that many people over 4000 points. So you would have to be playing a cook to hit the max, all cadets would still be fair game as you already said.


The reason it can't be removed: As the winners points approach zero, the points gained approach infinity.

Example: A person dumps their points to reach the lower limit of 1 (yes its illegal but still possible). Then wins a game against 7 people each of whom have 2000 points (common enough)

(2000*7/1)*20 = 280,000 points for the winner

With no cap on point gains, the best way to get to the top is to first go to the bottom. In fact, that is the exact reason the point cap was first implemented, and luckily it was established before the system was ever abused.


I just don't get one thing. If a player point dumps in order to get to 1 point, and start, let's say, 10 games with captain + players, he/she will take more than 100 points only to the first person he/she beats. As far as I know, there's no way you could win more than one game at the same exact time. So it would be 2000/1*20=40,000 points, which is still absurd, but a lot less than 280 000.
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Re: Remove maximum point loss to deter farming

Postby saraith on Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:28 am

Fipa wrote:
sully800 wrote:There is no way it should be removed but it could be increased to 150 perhaps. Unfortunately I don't think most high rankers run into the limit frequently so I don't think it would change anything. (4000/800)*20=1000 and there are not that many people over 4000 points. So you would have to be playing a cook to hit the max, all cadets would still be fair game as you already said.


The reason it can't be removed: As the winners points approach zero, the points gained approach infinity.

Example: A person dumps their points to reach the lower limit of 1 (yes its illegal but still possible). Then wins a game against 7 people each of whom have 2000 points (common enough)

(2000*7/1)*20 = 280,000 points for the winner

With no cap on point gains, the best way to get to the top is to first go to the bottom. In fact, that is the exact reason the point cap was first implemented, and luckily it was established before the system was ever abused.


I just don't get one thing. If a player point dumps in order to get to 1 point, and start, let's say, 10 games with captain + players, he/she will take more than 100 points only to the first person he/she beats. As far as I know, there's no way you could win more than one game at the same exact time. So it would be 2000/1*20=40,000 points, which is still absurd, but a lot less than 280 000.

sully's example involved an 8 player game, so in that scenario, the 1 point cook would gain 40k points for each opponent, i.e.: 40,000 points times 7 opponents = 280,000 points

I think we'd need a new rank ;)
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Re: Remove maximum point loss to deter farming

Postby cicero on Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:12 pm

If nothing else a cap of "all the points (except 1) that a losing player has" would have to be retained.
That way, in Sully's example, the Winner would take 1999 of the 2000 points held by each Loser.

Hence "only" 1999 x 7 = 13993 points would be won. Leaving the Winner with 13994 points and the Losers with 1 point each. [With such a cap employed the Winner need not even have only 1 point to clean out his opponents - anything from 1 to 20 does the trick.]

Which is as good a way as any of confirming this suggestion should be stamped "NO! ... SILLY!". [No offence intended to the original poster.]

It's also worth noting of course that as well as deterring farmers this would seriously deter all legitimate play between players of significantly different ranks.
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Re: Remove maximum point loss to deter farming

Postby GenuineEarlGrey on Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:09 pm

cicero wrote:Which is as good a way as any of confirming this suggestion should be stamped "NO! ... SILLY!". [No offence intended to the original poster.]

No offence taken. I'd looked at the one end of the scale (the risk of a higher ranked player winning) but not at the other (the reward of a lower ranked player winning) as I'd only gone down as far a 500 points.

Rather than the above stamp, I'd suggest stamping it "HALF BAKED".

I'm giving the recipie a tweak but still sticking to the key message: K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple) and, since the tweaked suggestion is significantly different I've started a new thread - Change max points lost per game & limit total max points won.
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Re: Remove maximum point loss to deter farming

Postby sully800 on Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:46 pm

I think there is a valid argument to change the maximum to 150 or 200 points. But then you would have to heavily punish people for point dumping because taking a 200 point chunk out of someone is a heavy blow for simple tom foolery
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Re: Remove maximum point loss to deter farming

Postby GenuineEarlGrey on Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:10 pm

sully800 wrote:I think there is a valid argument to change the maximum to 150 or 200 points. But then you would have to heavily punish people for point dumping because taking a 200 point chunk out of someone is a heavy blow for simple tom foolery


have a look at
Change max points lost per game & limit total max points won.
and see what you think of that.
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