Count highest teammate's score twice when computing points

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Count highest teammate's score twice when computing points

Postby FarangDemon on Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:11 am

Concise description:
  • Many of the highest ranked players are inflating their scores into the stratosphere by teaming with low ranked players known as "muppets". (I'm not saying this to blame or belittle anyone, just stating the facts)
  • By counting the score of each team's highest ranked player twice in computing team point totals, it reduces the extent to which high ranked players are able to inflate their scores or maintain inflated scores by playing with lower ranked players.

Specifics:

  • Say the conqueror teams with 3 cadets and takes on a team averaging 1000 points a player. Doubling the highest ranked team member's scores you would get:

    Conqueror team = 2*6000+800+800+800 = 14400
    Beginner's team = 2*1000+1000+1000+1000 = 5000

    Now the conqueror would win 6 / lose 57 points. This would require winning 90% of games for the conqueror to consistently increase his score instead of only 82% of games in the current system.

  • Against the average majors:

    Conqueror team = 2*6000+800+800+800 = 14400
    Major team = 2*2250+2250+2250+2250 = 11250

    Conqueror would win 15 / lose 25 points. This would require winning 63% of games for the conqueror to consistently increase his score instead of only 46% of games in the current system.

  • Against the average colonels:

    Conqueror team = 2*6000+800+800+800 = 14400
    Colonel team = 2*2750+2750+2750+2750= 13750

    Conqueror would win 19 / lose 20 points. This would require winning 51% of games for the conqueror to consistently increase his score instead of only 37% in the current system.

I think a more equitable awarding of points in teams games is acheived by:

  • Taking into account the effect of the superior leadership of the highest ranked member of each team
  • Reducing the effectiveness of being able to gain or maintain 6000 points purely by playing with very low ranked team members

    By lowering the effectiveness of this point harvesting technique:
    • Decreases gap between Conqueror and highest ranked players that engage in harvesting to a lesser extent
    • The effect of the formula is very slight in most games, only becoming noticeable in games that advance/maintain scores of the extremely high ranked
    • As the gap decreases, so does the effect of the formula (because it doubles the highest ranked player) so that after deflation of the highest ranked, the effect will be almost unnoticeable.
    • Yes, you lose an avenue of making it to the top quickly, but the apex of the pyramid gets shrunken so you actually end up closer
    • Conqueror rank will be more attainable by people that don't want to engage in harvesting techniques
Last edited by FarangDemon on Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Count highest teammate's score twice when computing points

Postby slowreactor on Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:52 am

FarangDemon wrote:Make it more possible to become conqueror without having to resort to harvesting techniques.



Are you calling Herpes a farmer? :o
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Re: Count highest teammate's score twice when computing points

Postby Woodruff on Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:32 pm

FarangDemon wrote:Concise description:
  • Many of the highest ranked players are inflating their scores into the stratosphere by teaming with low ranked players known as "muppets".
  • By counting the score of each team's highest ranked player twice in computing team point totals, it reduces the extent to which high ranked players are able to inflate their scores by playing with lower ranked players.


A good idea. I know that at times, that highest-ranked player may essentially "run" the entire team's movements, based on my own personal experience.
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Re: Count highest teammate's score twice when computing points

Postby redhawk92 on Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:11 am

i like this idea would stop farming in the way some do it
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Re: Count highest teammate's score twice when computing points

Postby Mr Changsha on Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:13 am

If I want to play fruitcake in a trips game (as we sometimes do) then my team is usually around 2400, 1400, 1400. (BTW there is no point inflation going on here...my friends just happen to be at that level). Fruitcake would naturally take two minus 800 players to even up the points a bit...as it is highly unlikely he would win 5 out of 5 against me, but would rather be aiming for 3 out of 5 (I would think).

Or take this game as an example...

Game 5093370

Team 1 and team 4 are pretty standard officer teams but teams 2 and 3 have some of the highest ranked players on the site. I suggested to both Herpes and Fc that they would be welcome to take as 'cookish' a player as they could find..to even up the points.

How would your change affect this games' scoring and would it be of benefit in this case?
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Re: Count highest teammate's score twice when computing points

Postby FarangDemon on Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:32 pm

Mr Changsha wrote:If I want to play fruitcake in a trips game (as we sometimes do) then my team is usually around 2400, 1400, 1400. (BTW there is no point inflation going on here...my friends just happen to be at that level). Fruitcake would naturally take two minus 800 players to even up the points a bit...as it is highly unlikely he would win 5 out of 5 against me, but would rather be aiming for 3 out of 5 (I would think).

Or take this game as an example...

Game 5093370

Team 1 and team 4 are pretty standard officer teams but teams 2 and 3 have some of the highest ranked players on the site. I suggested to both Herpes and Fc that they would be welcome to take as 'cookish' a player as they could find..to even up the points.

How would your change affect this games' scoring and would it be of benefit in this case?



Changsha's team was 3898 becomes 6343
Fruitcake's was 5161 becomes 8906
Herpes' was 6876 becomes 13084
Captains was 3924 become 5992

Below, the numbers in front of parens represent using the new method, in parens is the current method:

So if Captains win, they get 43(35) from Herpes, 30(26) from Fruitcake, 21(19) from Changsha.
If Fruitcake wins, he gets 14(15) from Changsha, 29(26) from Herpes, 13(15) from Captains.
If Herpes wins, he gets 10(11) from Changsha, 13(15) from Fruitcake, 9(11) from Captains.
If Changsha wins, he gets 28(26) from Fruitcake, 41(35) from Herpes, 18(20)from Captains.

If the remaining players have equal chance of winning given a Herpes loss, then Herpes loses (35+26+35)/3 = 32 if he loses. And he gains 37 when he wins. So he would have needed to win 32/(32+37)=46% of the time to break even.

Under new method, he loses (43+29+41)/3 = 37.7 when he loses and gains 32 when he wins. Now he needs to win 37.7/(32+37.7) = 54% of the time to break even.
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Re: Count highest teammate's score twice when computing points

Postby owenshooter on Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:44 pm

can we possibly get a poll so we can get a true measure of how the majority of CC feel about this idea?-0
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Re: Count highest teammate's score twice when computing points

Postby Fruitcake on Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:11 pm

At what point does a low ranked player qualify as a muppet?

I think you malign those of us who spend hours sweating over training sessions, exhorting our trainees to conduct the correct procedures when rolling the 'assualt cubes', sharing all but our squirrelest of secrets and generally being all round damned fine chaps and good eggs.

I can no longer count on two hands some quite senior players within cc that have come to me as lowly ranked players to be moulded and recreated as lean fighting machines that they are today. What you are suggesting edges towards reward for not being very good.

I say nay, nay and thrice nay to this, it just won't do you see. I may tell you I shall be informing the other Generals in the mess of your henious strategy and all being well we shall ensure the bar staff take heed and the serving chappies no longer deliver your freshly cooked exact temperature poached egg in the morning.

Meanwhile I'm off to give one of the punkawallahs a damned good thrashing for keeling over whilst fanning me at this afternoons tea.
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Re: Count highest teammate's score twice when computing points

Postby john9blue on Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:19 pm

Fruitcake wrote:At what point does a low ranked player qualify as a muppet?

I think you malign those of us who spend hours sweating over training sessions, exhorting our trainees to conduct the correct procedures when rolling the 'assualt cubes', sharing all but our squirrelest of secrets and generally being all round damned fine chaps and good eggs.

I can no longer count on two hands some quite senior players within cc that have come to me as lowly ranked players to be moulded and recreated as lean fighting machines that they are today. What you are suggesting edges towards reward for not being very good.

I say nay, nay and thrice nay to this, it just won't do you see. I may tell you I shall be informing the other Generals in the mess of your henious strategy and all being well we shall ensure the bar staff take heed and the serving chappies no longer deliver your freshly cooked exact temperature poached egg in the morning.

Meanwhile I'm off to give one of the punkawallahs a damned good thrashing for keeling over whilst fanning me at this afternoons tea.


TL;DR: Fruitcake would no longer be a general if this was implemented. ;)
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Re: Count highest teammate's score twice when computing points

Postby Timminz on Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:31 pm

As someone who is generally the lower score of my dubs team, I detest this suggestion. It's already bad enough that I lose extra points when my team mate has been having a good week. I can't think of any reason that would make me want to increase that disadvantage.

This suggestion would penalize the lower-ranked teammates more than it would the higher-ranked.

Also, having a cook on your team is a huge risk to take anyway. There's no need to make it even more so.

I could go on, but I have faith that this suggestion will not ever be implemented.
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Re: Count highest teammate's score twice when computing points

Postby King_Herpes on Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:19 pm

Timminz wrote:Also, having a cook on your team is a huge risk to take anyway. There's no need to make it even more so.


Nail on the head. They miss turns and often make crucial mistakes costing the game. They just simply aren't the super soldiers that you believe we have the ability to turn them into. One of my favorite go to cooks(simply because he rarely missis turns) for example has a deterring case of dyslexia, no joke, making him a willing teammate at best. There's nothing wrong with going head to head with the even team. Unfortunately this is the only way I can currently raise my relative rank on any given map so this is what I've been resorting too lately. It's a tough game against stiff compition, and they're not easy wins. I aim to win around 50%.
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Re: Count highest teammate's score twice when computing points

Postby btown80 on Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:19 pm

How about CC just puts a ban on Generals+, they can't play anyone who has less than 100 games played. That would also fix the farming issue we have... (yes this means you herpes)
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Re: Count highest teammate's score twice when computing points

Postby btown80 on Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:21 pm

King_Herpes wrote:
Timminz wrote:Also, having a cook on your team is a huge risk to take anyway. There's no need to make it even more so.


Nail on the head. They miss turns and often make crucial mistakes costing the game. They just simply aren't the super soldiers that you believe we have the ability to turn them into. One of my favorite go to cooks(simply because he rarely missis turns) for example has a deterring case of dyslexia, no joke, making him a willing teammate at best. There's nothing wrong with going head to head with the even team. Unfortunately this is the only way I can currently raise my relative rank on any given map so this is what I've been resorting too lately. It's a tough game against stiff compition, and they're not easy wins. I aim to win around 50%.


This is kinda funny to read, because you know as well as I do, herpes, that you are telling the muppet what to do every single step of the way. he is only there to assist in getting you more points in case of a victory, and so you lose less in case your farming technique fails.
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Re: Count highest teammate's score twice when computing points

Postby King_Herpes on Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:27 pm

Balderdash. Every player I call upon shares their input and is respected as my teammate. Many of you players just can't concieve that someone who doens't keep their own rank above the given 1000 is a complete tosspot. This is not the case. If you look deeper into the men/women under the chef's hat you'll find compitent players who often would make the exact move I would or something similiar. Not every round no, not every game of course not. They just need guidance is all and someone to have faith in them. They also are fun people who don't care so much about losing but are willing to take advice on how to win. I enjoy my games with these players for this reason alone and just because some of you can't wrap your head around the concept doesn't make it wrong. It's perfectly legit so kiss my pasty white ass.
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Re: Count highest teammate's score twice when computing points

Postby hwhrhett on Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:45 pm

King_Herpes wrote:Balderdash. Every player I call upon shares their input and is respected as my teammate. Many of you players just can't concieve that someone who doens't keep their own rank above the given 1000 is a complete tosspot. This is not the case. If you look deeper into the men/women under the chef's hat you'll find compitent players who often would make the exact move I would or something similiar. Not every round no, not every game of course not. They just need guidance is all and someone to have faith in them. They also are fun people who don't care so much about losing but are willing to take advice on how to win. I enjoy my games with these players for this reason alone and just because some of you can't wrap your head around the concept doesn't make it wrong. It's perfectly legit so kiss my pasty white ass.




ugh, i hate to have to agree with the king here..... ugh, i feel so dirty.... but.... hes right, he is taking part in the teaching process, it may be for selfish reasons, but..... the lower ranked folks that he may align with on teams are taking away some great training from a great specialized player... this is only good for cc.. not bad...
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