New Fog Option: "Heavy"

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New Fog Option: "Heavy"

Postby Kotaro on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:02 am

Concise description:
  • In None team games:
    -Only see adjacent territories
    -See's nothing in game log: Not what the opponent(s) play, what they hold, what they attack,anything.
    -Only know about self cards.
    -Restrict Game Chat to self only.
  • In Team Games:
    -Can only see territories adjacent to your own held; cannot see allies.
    -Can only deploy on self (why would you even know where to deploy?); Can fort to adjacent allies though.
    -See's nothing in game log: Not what the opponent(s) play, what they hold, what they attack,anything.
    -Only know about self cards.
    -Chat restricted to team only.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
  • Actually have real fog. A new option for some competitive gameplay.
Last edited by Kotaro on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby phantomzero on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:18 am

Interesting idea. In like the part about team games. This would be like a real battle where each squad would need to communicate with the others about enemy position.
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby lord voldemort on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:21 am

i think having chat restricted is a bad idea...
i enjoy banter with people
as for heavy fog... i think an adjustment to fog would be better. ie not showing cards cashed for starters. perhaps not showing game log at all...ie troops dropped territories taken etc. means people with bob cant cheat (though i am one of them)
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby Kotaro on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:27 am

Forgot about the no cards part <_<

Anyways, it's another option. No one would force you to play it - and on top of that, there's still Classic Fog for you to play with. Again, it's another Option - not a change. Changing fog would be kind of dumb, but a new fog would be nice.
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby Kotaro on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:28 am

phantomzero wrote:Interesting idea. In like the part about team games. This would be like a real battle where each squad would need to communicate with the others about enemy position.


Didn't even see this at first <_<

I agree completely. In normal fog, you can get away with very little chat. This would make you HAVE to communicate, or you lose (and subsequently get foe'd for being a dumbass).

And, it'd be kind of cool to have 3 card options, 3 fort options, and 3 fog options.
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby InsomniaRed on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:35 am

This is a pretty interesting idea, I agree that having 3 choices each would be cool, and the added pressure on team games might be fun. Hmm...I'll keep an eye out for this and see if anything comes of it. Seems interesting though!
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby Tupence on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:38 am

I like the idea of having 3 fog options too. Maybe it could be implemented into the "no difficult maps for n00bs" structure - with Heavy Fog only becoming available after new players have played "x" number of games, kind of like a Beginner (Sunny), Advanced (Fog), Expert (Heavy Fog) idea
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby Rocketry on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:59 am

I think you should be able to deploy ANYWHERE in team games. If you deploy on the enemy then then you should have chatted better. Although your team wouldn't realise you made the mistake unless you admited. Wait... you wouldn't even know yourself.

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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby phantomzero on Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:08 am

Rocketry wrote:I think you should be able to deploy ANYWHERE in team games. If you deploy on the enemy then then you should have chatted better. Although your team wouldn't realise you made the mistake unless you admited. Wait... you wouldn't even know yourself.

Rocket.


Very interesting idea. If you can't see your own team members, then you really have to communicate or you might deploy on the other team!!! This would definatly bring a whole new dimension to team games.

"WTF??? Tell me you didn't just deploy on the enemy Phantom. Come on! This is a TEAM game."
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby Kotaro on Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:09 am

While that idea might be funny, that opens to a lot of abuse. MSN convo's turn into a 3 on 1 "team" game. I won't be adding that to the idea.

Otherwise, updated my idea with the cards part.
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby phantomzero on Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:12 pm

Kotaro wrote:While that idea might be funny, that opens to a lot of abuse. MSN convo's turn into a 3 on 1 "team" game. I won't be adding that to the idea.


Never considered that part. I guess that's why we're discussing it ;)
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby ubersky on Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:27 pm

I like this idea. Adds more options for games.

One thing, I'd allow chat, but make it delayed. like you can only send chat updates on your turn, and only receive them after your turn is up, or even several turns down. This emulates having to send a courier or such since there is no sight comms.

I don't know if I'd like to play the game in complete silence, but that as an option may not be totally bad.

as for the abuse of MSN or other off-game chats. I don't know how this option would change or increase the chance that would happen. If you have a 4 player game, and 3 ppl know each other and are on MSN, wouldn't it develop into a 3 on 1 anyway?
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby Kotaro on Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:49 pm

ubersky wrote:I like this idea. Adds more options for games.

One thing, I'd allow chat, but make it delayed. like you can only send chat updates on your turn, and only receive them after your turn is up, or even several turns down. This emulates having to send a courier or such since there is no sight comms.

I don't know if I'd like to play the game in complete silence, but that as an option may not be totally bad.

as for the abuse of MSN or other off-game chats. I don't know how this option would change or increase the chance that would happen. If you have a 4 player game, and 3 ppl know each other and are on MSN, wouldn't it develop into a 3 on 1 anyway?


I don't see how delaying would be any different then making them. The point of heavy fog is to entirely make it that; heavy. Being unable to communicate enemy positions in chat, and doing so outside of it will get you reported.

The game in complete silence won't be much different then people saying "gl", "gl", "gg", "gg". However, it will make the Fog much thicker, which is the point of "Heavy Fog".

The point I brought up for the MSN, was in conflict with the idea of being able to drop anywhere on the map, no matter the player. In that case, it would be easy for one person to drop on another, and the other players would have no idea, because they couldn't see game chat. Someone could be betrayed and they'd never notice.

However, if your 3's started disappearing, and your partners borders were getting closer to yours, you'd notice that you were dying and your ally was thriving in your spot. And then he'd be reported.
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby ubersky on Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:55 pm

I totally agree. The delayed comms was just a possible deference to those that like to chat.

the MSN abuse is no issue.

I just thought of one additional piece that might make it even foggier. Hide the names of the opponents. I think this was suggested a long time ago on another thread, but it sort of makes sense here. It would help reduce the ability of the cooperation (not impossible). It would also enhance the Foggy feel of the game.

I think in honor of this suggestion, if this option is implemented, anyone that makes an Assassin game with heavy fog w/ hidden opponents, it should be renamed to "Landmine Mode" :)
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby Kotaro on Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:03 pm

Hidden opponents, while interesting, would probably be another separate setting, methinks. Unable to see whom they're playing until after the game is done, even while "Awaiting", name is changed to Red, Blue, etc.
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby Tupence on Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:06 pm

ubersky wrote:I think in honor of this suggestion, if this option is implemented, anyone that makes an Assassin game with heavy fog w/ hidden opponents, it should be renamed to "Landmine Mode" :)

I love the idea, but I think the higher ranks just wouldn't play for fear of randomly losing up to 700 points. I can imagine it would gradually become cook-only territory
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby ubersky on Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:15 pm

Tupence wrote:
ubersky wrote:I think in honor of this suggestion, if this option is implemented, anyone that makes an Assassin game with heavy fog w/ hidden opponents, it should be renamed to "Landmine Mode" :)

I love the idea, but I think the higher ranks just wouldn't play for fear of randomly losing up to 700 points. I can imagine it would gradually become cook-only territory


Well yeah, but Evil Tournament Organizers could use it to punish Tournament players.. Don't know of anyone who would fit that category though.. noooo..none at all.. :twisted:
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby Kotaro on Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:47 pm

Yes, the idea of not knowing your opponents is nice. And I believe some high rankers would participate in it, because it'd just be fun.

What do others think of Heavy Fog?
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby wolfpack0530 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:24 pm

I agree with it kotaro. The more options the better. also, to chime in about the chat delay, I believe the chat to be delayed enough as it is. If I am red in dire need of troups in a team game, I can put in the log "Hey green, deploy on N4 for me. I am down to 2 terts." But, if by the time green takes his turn, yellow happens to conquer N4, then green will be stuck wondering, "why the hell cant I deploy there?" Then he will realize that that tert has been conquered, but will be left guessing as to where red is. Now green could PM red, or red could list all his terts in the log every turn, but the info will be old news by the time green takes his turn. That is the delay in which I speak. :geek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek:
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby pmchugh on Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:33 pm

Kotaro wrote:Yes, the idea of not knowing your opponents is nice. And I believe some high rankers would participate in it, because it'd just be fun.

What do others think of Heavy Fog?


I think it would be a good edition even though i am not the biggest fog player I think it would add an extra level of strategy.

wolfpack0530 wrote:I agree with it kotaro. The more options the better. also, to chime in about the chat delay, I believe the chat to be delayed enough as it is. If I am red in dire need of troups in a team game, I can put in the log "Hey green, deploy on N4 for me. I am down to 2 terts." But, if by the time green takes his turn, yellow happens to conquer N4, then green will be stuck wondering, "why the hell cant I deploy there?" Then he will realize that that tert has been conquered, but will be left guessing as to where red is. Now green could PM red, or red could list all his terts in the log every turn, but the info will be old news by the time green takes his turn. That is the delay in which I speak. :geek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek:


That just sounds like a lack of communication to me.
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Re: Another Option: "Heavy Fog"

Postby Captain_Scarlet on Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:48 pm

phantomzero wrote:Very interesting idea. If you can't see your own team members, then you really have to communicate or you might deploy on the other team!!! This would definatly bring a whole new dimension to team games.

"WTF??? Tell me you didn't just deploy on the enemy Phantom. Come on! This is a TEAM game."



I think its a great idea for strategy and I can see potential as a teaching aid too

"wtf zero you just attacked your own team ;) "
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Re: New Fog Option: "Heavy"

Postby Kotaro on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:07 pm

Changed the idea only a tweet with the title.

Fog of War: No _ Yes _ Heavy _
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Re: New Fog Option: "Heavy"

Postby Kotaro on Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:17 pm

More talking = it'll actually happen <_< any other discussions?
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Re: New Fog Option: "Heavy"

Postby The Neon Peon on Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:30 pm

I love the idea, although the restricted chat will lead to a lot of secret diplomacy. I'd say leave chat in there. It is better to have everyone discussing who they see and who they don't rather than only letting a few cheats have that advantage.
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Re: New Fog Option: "Heavy"

Postby Kotaro on Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:11 am

I'm going to say no to adding that (while actually, taking it out), of my proposal. Just having a game log not showing doesn't seem really that much of a huge update thing to have it's own game type. I like the idea of total non-contact.

Despite what some believe, in War, I don't believe that the two leaders meet to call each other "lucky fucks" and tell each other "you dice h4x". This is more like real war - communication with your allies, but since the end all objective is to be the last man/team standing, and no amount of talk changes that, it's how it should be.
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