Missed Turns in Freestyle

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Fake Double Turns...

Postby Sir Gordalot on Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:05 pm

This occurance is rare but I think it would be a quick fix... it usually only happens in freestyle team games... If one person misses a turn, at the start of the next round any one is allowed to play... This leaves the possiblitity of someone taking a double turn... I think the team of the person who took the last turn should not be able to take a turn untill the other team takes a turn
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Postby zip_disk on Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:31 pm

Technically the person who missed their turn is the last player to "do" their turn (Their action was to do nothing at all). So its not really a double turn. If the player who had missed their turn had showed up and done it, then the previous player would have been able to do their turn anyway.
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Postby PaperPlunger on Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:57 pm

zip_disk wrote:Technically the person who missed their turn is the last player to "do" their turn (Their action was to do nothing at all). So its not really a double turn. If the player who had missed their turn had showed up and done it, then the previous player would have been able to do their turn anyway.


OR they could have just played out their turn, and not ended it so they could get a double, they wouldn't get a card but they'd be able to go again
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Re: Fake Double Turns...

Postby alstergren on Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:45 pm

Sir Gordalot wrote:This occurance is rare but I think it would be a quick fix... it usually only happens in freestyle team games... If one person misses a turn, at the start of the next round any one is allowed to play... This leaves the possiblitity of someone taking a double turn... I think the team of the person who took the last turn should not be able to take a turn untill the other team takes a turn


As was noted in the post below, the actual turn consists of taking no action whatsoever.

However, you use the term "fake double turns" somewhat wide here.

The problem or loophole (which wasn't fixed in the latest upgrade of the game engine) is that in a four player doubles or in any game where only two people or team remains - the player/team that is to start the round can simply wait 23 hours and 58 minutes before making their moves. By doing this, the other player/team merely have a minute or two to make their moves before the 24 hour period is up and the next round kicks in (registering that the other player/team took no action at all) allowing the player/team who last moved to move again.

This is can be a very effective strategy and used correctly you decide the game by doing this. (One can note that it also cannot be considered cheating since it doesn't violate rule 1 or 2 and the game engine allows for it.)

However, used like this the game turns into the old "double turns allowed" setting. This setting is gone on paper, but the double turn can be practiced in this way.

Of course, there are always people who will jump in and say, "hey if you don't want it, play sequential games." That is, of course, a correct observation. And everyone who joins a freestyle game is aware that this event/move can take place. Still, it does violate the spirit of the original game settings. Basically, if I wanted to play a game where double turns were allowed, I would have started or joined such a game when that option was available up until a few days ago.

A way to prevent this occurrence can be to for each new round - the 24 hour round period begins. Then, when the first player/team makes the first move in that round, the round period is reset to 0, i.e. from here you have another 24 hours to finish the round.

These "fake double rounds" may not always be the result of a deliberate move. With people scattered around the world, a player/team simply may not have gotten around to log in to CC until 18-22 hours have already passed for a round. Most people seem (including myself) to have certain times of the day when they check in. With a mismatch between the players, a round can easily slip away from one player/team due to this. Thus, the suggestion made in the paragraph above would also solve the issue/problem with people from different parts of the world playing in the same game since it would create a level playing field for all players.
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Missed Turns in Freestyle

Postby TotoroHat on Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:48 pm

Concise description:

* Make it so that if a player misses his/her turn in a freestyle game it counts as if they have made the final turn of the round.


Specifics:

* If you miss a turn in a freestyle game then you can not be the first to start the next round.
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Missed Turn Fix - Multiplayer Freestyle

Postby jsnr75 on Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:12 am

A constant frustration in multi-player freestyle games is the missed turn. As part of the game, I know it exists, and generally plan on it with noobs (?'s). I think a small change in the game would fix the disadvantage caused by these missed turns.

Ex. In a three player freestyle game, I finish my turn second, and the third player misses their turn. I get punished by being the last person to take a turn and not being able to play once their missed turn is finished.

I know anyone can miss a turn, not just ?'s, but it seems to be them more often than not. My suggestion is either:

A. Code the game to not punish the person who took the last turn prior to any missed turn. This is a simple change (ok, I don't know that it's a simple code change, but it's a small change) that doesn't punish a player who finishes their turn earlier than other players.

or

B. Limit new players from freestyle play (They are probably going to get their arses whooped anyway if they aren't up to speed on Tools and Enhancements and leave frustrated.) I know this one is unlikely to happen, but would help.
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Re: Missed Turn Fix - Multiplayer Freestyle

Postby TheForgivenOne on Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:44 pm

jsnr75 wrote:A constant frustration in multi-player freestyle games is the missed turn. As part of the game, I know it exists, and generally plan on it with noobs (?'s). I think a small change in the game would fix the disadvantage caused by these missed turns.

Ex. In a three player freestyle game, I finish my turn second, and the third player misses their turn. I get punished by being the last person to take a turn and not being able to play once their missed turn is finished.

I know anyone can miss a turn, not just ?'s, but it seems to be them more often than not. My suggestion is either:

A. Code the game to not punish the person who took the last turn prior to any missed turn. This is a simple change (ok, I don't know that it's a simple code change, but it's a small change) that doesn't punish a player who finishes their turn earlier than other players.

or

B. Limit new players from freestyle play (They are probably going to get their arses whooped anyway if they aren't up to speed on Tools and Enhancements and leave frustrated.) I know this one is unlikely to happen, but would help.


About your first thought, the reason this happens, is to remove double turns. Think about it, if this were to be used, where if Player A was the last person to go, but player B missed a turn, then Player A could very well wait until there were about 2 minutes left in a turn, take it, wait for the next turn to come up, and basically get a double turn.
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Re: Missed Turn Fix - Multiplayer Freestyle

Postby jsnr75 on Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:51 pm

I agree with what you are saying, I'm talking about freestyle with 3 or more players. It's not a tactic for the person who finishes second to abuse...he just gets hosed because of the player that misses a turn.
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Re: Missed Turn Fix - Multiplayer Freestyle

Postby TheForgivenOne on Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:57 pm

jsnr75 wrote:I agree with what you are saying, I'm talking about freestyle with 3 or more players. It's not a tactic for the person who finishes second to abuse...he just gets hosed because of the player that misses a turn.


Actually, it was abused badly before. That's why the system is like this today.
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Re: Missed Turn Fix - Multiplayer Freestyle

Postby jsnr75 on Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:05 pm

I think you are missing the point of the post.

I understand the abuse on 2 player games. Was a victim of it. Agree with what is in place.

In this case the "fix" created another problem because of deadbeats...mostly ?'s playing freestyle games. All I'm suggesting is keeping ?'s from freestyle games or setting the game up so that if someone misses a turn...it doesn't punish someone other than that player. How is it fair to punish the guy who finished his turn second because of the missed turn by the third player???
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Re: Missed Turn Fix - Multiplayer Freestyle

Postby jsnr75 on Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:09 pm

OK, I have to be explaining the problem incorrectly, because this seems so ridiculously unfair. Let me take another stab at it.

Round 1 Freestyle 3 players.
Player 1 Starts turn...ends turn.
Player 2 Starts turn...ends turn.
Player 3 Misses Turn

Advance to Round 2
Player 2 Cannot take turn after the missed turn even though he finished his turn before the missed
turn because the system reads him as having "Played last"...he is therefore, punished for
player 3 deadbeating.
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Re: Missed Turn Fix - Multiplayer Freestyle

Postby TheForgivenOne on Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:09 pm

jsnr75 wrote:I think you are missing the point of the post.

I understand the abuse on 2 player games. Was a victim of it. Agree with what is in place.

In this case the "fix" created another problem because of deadbeats...mostly ?'s playing freestyle games. All I'm suggesting is keeping ?'s from freestyle games or setting the game up so that if someone misses a turn...it doesn't punish someone other than that player. How is it fair to punish the guy who finished his turn second because of the missed turn by the third player???


You are not grasping the point I made. This was abused at ALL level of games, 2-8. Players were constantly using this tactic to maintain a bonus or to ensure a kill or on maps such as Oasis, or any other Objective map, to gain the victory.

The removing of Freestyle from the New Recruits options is a good Suggestion. I support it 100% since i Suggested it a month or two ago.
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Re: Missed Turn Fix - Multiplayer Freestyle

Postby jsnr75 on Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:11 pm

I have seen you and now Queen Herpes make similar suggestions with Freestyle.

But I'm not talking about taking away the punishment for the player that missed the turn, I'm talking about taking away the punishment for the player that played his turn appropriately.
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Re: Missed Turn Fix - Multiplayer Freestyle

Postby TheForgivenOne on Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:33 pm

jsnr75 wrote:I have seen you and now Queen Herpes make similar suggestions with Freestyle.

But I'm not talking about taking away the punishment for the player that missed the turn, I'm talking about taking away the punishment for the player that played his turn appropriately.


AND as i said, they can easily abuse this. They notice a New Recruit, or someone is missing turns, they wait for the last possible moment, take their turn, End, Player misses their turn, the player that JUST took his turn gets a Double turn.
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Re: Missed Turn Fix - Multiplayer Freestyle

Postby jsnr75 on Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:37 am

Guess the only solution is to limit the missed turns then, and the only way I see that happening is to stop ?'s from playing freestyle.

It sucks to be at the receiving end of a punishment for an exploit that you aren't using.
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