[GP/UI] Delay Start of Freestyle Games

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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby qwertylpc on Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:25 pm

there is complete support no opposition in this thread except for a few pesemists who say bnothing will work so i say implement it
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby jpcloet on Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:34 pm

Didn't read most of this, but if the site does this, can we also get a large time delay on team fog games?
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby Chuuuuck on Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:41 pm

I like this. Would help out a lot.
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby Chuuuuck on Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:43 pm

Maybe change it to all speed games. Not just freestyle.

30 sec. really isn't that big of a deal to wait and it could help someone see the board if they play sequential in the fog.

For example, 1v1, sequential fog on classic. 2nd player joins the game and takes 2 territories of the first player. First player goes into the game and he can't see all of Australia now. He knows there are 5 territories of his opponents he can't see and 2 neutrals he can't see. It would be beneficial in that 30 sec. he could of seen Australia to know if there were neutrals in there.
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby White Moose on Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:55 pm

I like it!
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby Queen_Herpes on Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:27 pm

I'm opposed for the following reasons:
-First, the only way players without clickies can have an advantage in 1v1 freestyle speed is to jump in first and break any bonuses or receive bonuses before the player who starts the game makes a move. Thae only time I play 1v1 freestyle speed is when I know I can jump in and go first without being hit by clickmasters. This suggestion would kill my ability to play speed 1v1 freestyle because I cannot load clickies and other scripts and add-ons. This suggestion, therefore, makes it easier for people who already have an easier time with clickies.
-Second, A delay is already possible if players click on the "manual" setting.
-Third, if its done in speed, then won't the slippery slope require a delay in sequential games...making them longer?
-Fourth, again, just like the prvious comment, the slippery slope would urge the admins to push this to casual freestyle games as well. I'm guessing like a 10 minute delay, making those games even longer.

Please don't let this go through, I enjoy playing the occassional 1v1 freestyle speed game and the only advantage I have against clickies is going first.
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby jrh_cardinal on Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:07 am

Queen_Herpes wrote:Please don't let this go through, I enjoy playing the occassional 1v1 freestyle speed game and the only advantage I have against clickies is going first.

well that my friend is cheating the system and it is exactly what I'm trying to stop. If everyone were as point-obsessed as you seem to be, then no speed freestyle would be created beacuse everyone would only join games second :roll: :roll: Only half of the spots in a 1v1 game are the second spot. Here is what you are saying:
Queen Herpes wrote:I do not want to make it more fair because the only way I have a chance to win is if I cheat

Queen_Herpes wrote:First, the only way players without clickies can have an advantage in 1v1 freestyle speed is to jump in first and break any bonuses or receive bonuses before the player who starts the game makes a move. Thae only time I play 1v1 freestyle speed is when I know I can jump in and go first without being hit by clickmasters. This suggestion would kill my ability to play speed 1v1 freestyle because I cannot load clickies and other scripts and add-ons. This suggestion, therefore, makes it easier for people who already have an easier time with clickies.

then get clickies :P. Clickies are not illegal, and it really is not a problem to download Firefox or chrome.
Queen_Herpes wrote:Second, A delay is already possible if players click on the "manual" setting.

totally changes the game, plus unless you have clickies (and know how to hold down the b button ;) ), you still start your turn second
Queen_Herpes wrote:Third, if its done in speed, then won't the slippery slope require a delay in sequential games...making them longer?

perhaps that would make sense as well, but only for speed and only for a short time at the very beginning (this is not after every turn :P ).

jpcloet wrote:can we also get a large time delay on team fog games?

I could see this also, but soon (singles) people are gonna want all fog games, and really doesn't the 12 hour rule work?
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby Queen_Herpes on Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:50 am

jrh_cardinal wrote:
Queen_Herpes wrote:Please don't let this go through, I enjoy playing the occassional 1v1 freestyle speed game and the only advantage I have against clickies is going first.

well that my friend is cheating the system and it is exactly what I'm trying to stop.


I know clickies aren't illegal. However there are enough players out there, like me, who cannot load them. System issues, whatever the reason. Similarly, there are players who don't know how to load them or are so new to the site that they don't know scripts and addons exist. I'm not saying that justifies the situation, but there is a HUGE advantage to a player who has clickies in freestyle.

And all that I am saying is that there needs to be an equitable advantage given to those players who want to play freestyle but who lack the ability or option to obtain clickies.

Your suggestion leans more towards benefitting the player who has the better drop in 1v1 AND it still benefits the player with clickies and those scripts that start your turn for you. The rest of us have to keep hitting refresh until the next round starts.
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby jrh_cardinal on Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:22 am

see, I think that is naive. I don't know coding that well, so I'm not gonna get into the "system issues" you say you get when downloading clickies, but that does not make it right that you get an auto-advantage.

So you're saying this benefits the person with the better drop. Okay, I can live with that. That is MUCH better than benefiting the person that joins second. The drop is 50-50, so please answer this question: Are you saying the only time you would join speed freestyle is by getting the first turn automatically?
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby Queen_Herpes on Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:56 am

jrh_cardinal wrote:see, I think that is naive. I don't know coding that well, so I'm not gonna get into the "system issues" you say you get when downloading clickies, but that does not make it right that you get an auto-advantage.

So you're saying this benefits the person with the better drop. Okay, I can live with that. That is MUCH better than benefiting the person that joins second. The drop is 50-50, so please answer this question: Are you saying the only time you would join speed freestyle is by getting the first turn automatically?


Since I don't have clickies, If I were to be the player to start/host (player1) a 1v1 freestyle game, I would lose. Plain and simple. If I join a 1v1 freestyle game hosted by someone else of a high rank, my only chance is to get that first move in before they start their turn. I've won some freestyle games against players with clickies and I have lost a lot more. The small benefit that I get in starting my turn before the clickie-enabled opponent is small but enough to help me win in about 25% of the games. The enormous benefit that this option gives to the clickie-enabled player playing against a non-clickie enabled player is enough to throw the odds of victory to 100% when clickies play non-clickies in speed freestyle.

It is an uphill battle to play 1v1 freestyle against players with clickies. I make the attempt. It is crazy fun, I have to constantly refresh the screen and the games are nutso on my end. My heart races. This suggestion would end my ability to have decent odds of competition in speed freestyle.

In an earlier post you called me a "point hog" or said something to the effect of me being "too concerned about my rank" or something like that, right? It isn't that way for me. It is about being competitive and offering a competitive challenge to my opponents. If by the time I start my turn in a speed freestyle game my opponent has already wiped my bonuses and enough of my armies, there isn't really any competition remaining in the game. If this sug goes through, I don't offer a challenge to the player with clickies and other add-ons, I'm just there to deploy and die. I don't care about the points, I just care about being a challenge and being competitive. And I am aware of the strategy that a freestyle player waits until the last second to deploy, attack, and fort. But on some maps, the benefit comes in the first strike. In some situations, it comes in the first strike.

Your suggestion still requires players to hit the refresh button umpteen times until the 20-30 second wait time is over. And, at that point, the clickie-enabled and other-script-enabled players win every time. I think I read something about the automatic-start-your-turn script being illegal, but that doesn't stop people from using it, I've seen players that start their turn in the second after my turn ends. Whatever, though, right? I'd just like to see a benefit remain for non-clickies like me so that I can still be competitive in those speed freestyle games.
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby jrh_cardinal on Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:09 am

Queen_Herpes wrote:my only chance is to get that first move in before they start their turn

so you're answer is yes, you have to automatically get the first turn to join
Queen_Herpes wrote:The enormous benefit that this option gives to the clickie-enabled player

is ZERO. It gives no benefit to people with clickies, it makes the start EVEN for the person that started the game.



YOU'RE PROVING MY POINT. You are saying that right now the second person to join gets a tremendous advantage because they get to go first. So even the one person that has posted and actually disagreed that this is a good idea, agrees with the idea :shock:




I understand that the person with clickies always has an advantage, because they have clickies. That does not mean the start of the game should be unfair so that you can cheat to have a chance to win. Also, join the scroll bar kings usergroup, they're trying to play games w/out clickies
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby ljex on Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:04 pm

First off any good freestyle player knows that it is an advantage to wait till the end of the round to play, the problem that this suggestion would fix is that when someone joins a speed freestyle game player 1 has dropped a bonus or player 2 dropped all but one region of a bonus on a small map, the second player has a chance to gain an advantage and will win more games because of this. To me this seems like a simple fix that would stop people from gaining an unfair advantage. I would also be fine if the system viewed it that the second player had played last last turn so they have to wait for the first player to begin in order to be allowed to play.

Second, i saw a mention of manual already provides this. This is only true on a few select maps as for all other maps it changes how the game is played. In fact for about 90% of maps it gives more of an advantage to the joining player than automatic does. This is because when joining you can deploy first and thus begin first the next turn. As a result of this if stacks happen to be next to each-other after the deploy, the player who begins will basically always get the attack in first and thus gain from attackers advantage.

Lastly we must remember that just because you dont have clickable maps is not a reason for you to gain from a different advantage you have that is not avaliable to all. Everyone has the opportunity to install clickable maps and as such everyone should have the opportunity to be there at the start of the game. There will be similar situations where people dont have the ability to install clickable maps or people wont be there at the start of the game because they are in another game, however the implementation of this would make it more fair for more people.
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby LFAW on Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:16 pm

Definetely agree :)
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby Queen_Herpes on Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:18 pm

jrh_cardinal wrote:
Queen_Herpes wrote:my only chance is to get that first move in before they start their turn

so you're answer is yes, you have to automatically get the first turn to join
Queen_Herpes wrote:The enormous benefit that this option gives to the clickie-enabled player

is ZERO. It gives no benefit to people with clickies, it makes the start EVEN for the person that started the game.



YOU'RE PROVING MY POINT. You are saying that right now the second person to join gets a tremendous advantage because they get to go first. So even the one person that has posted and actually disagreed that this is a good idea, agrees with the idea :shock:




I understand that the person with clickies always has an advantage, because they have clickies. That does not mean the start of the game should be unfair so that you can cheat to have a chance to win. Also, join the scroll bar kings usergroup, they're trying to play games w/out clickies


whatever. Ultimately it means I won't play freestyle speed 1v1 and I won't play freestyle speed anything else (probably) because it gives added advantage to the players with clickable maps. Its there, its real. I'll play as many speed freestyle 1v1s as I can until this is implemented. Then, I'll stop. Why? because any advantage I could have gained against players with clickable maps will be taken away once this is implemented.
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby White Moose on Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:00 pm

The ways of playing that Q_H refers to is rather frowned upon anyway.

The only negative thing with this is that you have to wait a few seconds more. But if/when we see 1/2.5 min speed games, it'd be all good in my book.
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby HighlanderAttack on Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:34 pm

I think for 24 hour freestyle games no one should be able to start until 12 hours has passed--just my feelings on this --I voted yes of course
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby jrh_cardinal on Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:08 pm

I see this is starting a long line of suggestions. So far I've got:

12 hour wait period on all freestyle
12 hour wait period on all Clan War games (not sure how you would determine if it was Clan War or not)
12 hour wait period on all fog games

I think all of these are not good ideas overall. I see the benefit, but 12 hours is a long time. Think of freemies who just want to play a rt game, or a relatively quick game over a couple hours, these make that near impossible except on very specific settings. Also, for Clan Wars it would basically require a new game type (Clan rather than Public/Private/Tournament).

My suggestion does not greatly effect the time it takes to play a game. Even if it was just 10 or 15 seconds, that would give people plenty of time to be able to start their turn at the same time as their opponents, which is only fair.


How much more support does this need to be submitted for admin review? The poll is 29 to 4 right now
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby TheForgivenOne on Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:37 pm

Okay, to get the ball rolling again. For this thread, people have been suggesting that:

A) 30~ Second wait before a Speed Game will start.
B) 12 Hour wait for all FOW Games.
C) 12 Wait on all Clan Games.

Okay, i can already see the problems with option B. It would hurt more freemium members then it would help. So I think that can be stricken from the record. A Obviously helps a lot of Freestyle players, who may be roaming in the Forums waiting for their game to start, then get the disadvantage when it does. C i am a little sketchy on, as it can help with strategy purposes.
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby jrh_cardinal on Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:57 pm

TheForgivenOne wrote:Okay, to get the ball rolling again. For this thread, people have been suggesting that:

A) 30~ Second wait before a Speed Game will start.
B) 12 Hour wait for all FOW Games.
C) 12 Wait on all Clan Games.

Okay, i can already see the problems with option B. It would hurt more freemium members then it would help. So I think that can be stricken from the record. A Obviously helps a lot of Freestyle players, who may be roaming in the Forums waiting for their game to start, then get the disadvantage when it does. C i am a little sketchy on, as it can help with strategy purposes.

the problem for C is that there isn't a Clan game type (yet O:) ). Until that happens C can't happen because you can't make it for all private games. And I agree that you can't wait 12 hours for a public game, it's just too long for freemies and the like
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby ParadiceCity9 on Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:11 am

Well you say that you refresh the My Games page. What I do for speed freestyles is I go to a completed game and just keep refreshing the map and and click "jump to your next playable game" once the PM comes that the game has started. I've gotten I think a 6 second game by doing that, and I almost always start first. So what I'm getting at is that this would actually detriment he who makes the game.
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby JoshyBoy on Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:11 am

This original suggestion for a 20-30 second wait period for speed freestyle has now been submitted, as it has been around for a while and seems to have plenty of support. For the poll, a 41 - 6 is an overwhelming majority. Admin, as always, will decide it's fate.
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Re: 20-30 Second wait period for speed freestyle

Postby pamoa on Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:04 am

Now with the 1 minute games the 30 seconds waiting period is almost compulsory
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5 minutes waiting time to freestyle.

Postby skychaser on Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:08 pm

Just to say it plainly, there's abosolutely NO strategy at freestyle. No when there's game objectives.
5 minutes waiting time woud mean the player who did the last turn will have to wait 5 minutes to play the next round no matter what.
The one who finished the turn would have to wait 5 minutes after someone started the next turn or still his half the round.


This would greatly, greatly, ennormously improve the meaning of scores as it would take some of the farms who specializes at waiting till last second to get the objective and them use tools to start the round at insane network speed.

It would dimnish the value of internet speed.

It would give some basic strategic feature to freestyle when there's objectives. By now it have NONE.

It would give some time and give more balance in 2players freestyle.

Better gameplay and more strategic so everyone wins.
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Re: 5 minutes waiting time to freestyle.

Postby patrickaa317 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:37 pm

Hate to be that guy but if you don't like it, then don't play it.
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Re: 5 minutes waiting time to freestyle.

Postby nicestash on Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:43 pm

Freestyle is an awesome setting for speed games and that would just ruin those.

It's also fun for multiplayer games, and I think it would hurt those as well.
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