[Site] Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

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Should we change the rating system, or leave it as it is?

Yes, change it.
78
52%
No, leave it.
71
48%
 
Total votes : 149

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby ccatman on Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:29 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
ccatman wrote:first of all i ask why you want this so dependent on people not rating? if you were to get 10% ratings and 5*'s from everyone you clearly are a good player and deserve more than a 3.2


Flat-out false. As you alluded to in your above post, saying "gl" and "gg" is often enough to get you five stars. That in no way indicates that you are a good player.

those 900 people who didnt rate you chose not to rate you because they are lazy and dont care about the rating system not because you were just an ordinary player and with so many people not rating you might get a lot of people around the average rating


Yes, that's the idea. Most of the player base should be close to the average. That's the definition of average.

but you will not get people who are above average at what is now 4.0 and what could be 1.0 later and you will not get anyone near 5.0 and i said before that with this new system noone will get a perfect rating and there are people who deserve them if you think so or not this system will not allow you to go that high.


Even if that's true, so what? There are roughly 80% out of the rating scores possible, that basically no one has now (i.e. any score from 1.0 up to 4.0). The system won't get worse.

and another thing why do you have a problem with 4.7 being the average rating now?what is so bad about that?


I find it incredibly annoying, because the average rating should be in the center of the distribution. That's actually my only real motivation here.


the average is only the mean of everyone it does not mean most of the people are average it just means when you add up all the players and divide it that number you get is the average
this in no way means that the majority of people are average players say if you have 10 numbers between 1-5 you get 1,2,2,3,4,4,4,4,4,5,5 the average there is 3.8 and 3.8 and 3.0 are not the same number clearly
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:33 pm

ccatman wrote:the average is only the mean of everyone it does not mean most of the people are average it just means when you add up all the players and divide it that number you get is the average
this in no way means that the majority of people are average players say if you have 10 numbers between 1-5 you get 1,2,2,3,4,4,4,4,4,5,5 the average there is 3.8 and 3.8 and 3.0 are not the same number clearly


Obviously you can find an example of a set of numbers where the average isn't what you want it to be. My whole point is that I believe that the average rating ought to be in the center of the rating distribution. That assumption is the basis of pretty much all of statistics, and besides, I just think it's silly to have a 5 point rating scale and have all the ratings stuck between 4.5 and 5.0.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby ccatman on Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:42 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
ccatman wrote:the average is only the mean of everyone it does not mean most of the people are average it just means when you add up all the players and divide it that number you get is the average
this in no way means that the majority of people are average players say if you have 10 numbers between 1-5 you get 1,2,2,3,4,4,4,4,4,5,5 the average there is 3.8 and 3.8 and 3.0 are not the same number clearly


Obviously you can find an example of a set of numbers where the average isn't what you want it to be. My whole point is that I believe that the average rating ought to be in the center of the rating distribution. That assumption is the basis of pretty much all of statistics, and besides, I just think it's silly to have a 5 point rating scale and have all the ratings stuck between 4.5 and 5.0.

i agree with you in the sense that having it between 4.5-5.0 is silly but like i said most people understand who is what kind of player 4.7-4.8 is a good sized difference so is 4.8-4.9 4.5 is actually considered somewhat low
but this new system honestly is only making it more dependent on who you play against and if they are lazy or not(did i say that before????) and really if you play a lot of speed games your rating will be hurt if you play a lot of private team games against clans or maybe in trourneys you will have a high rating still with this new system
if you are a low rank or someone who joins a lot off games with them most of them probaly wont rate you or care to rate you if your in 8 player games all the time noone is going to look at how each person plays and then rate them so there solution is dont rate at all
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby temporos on Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:42 am

ccatman wrote:people who actually deserve 5.0 ratings right now will not get it ever

Take a statistics course no one "deserves" a perfect score.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:28 pm

No, this is dumb. the ratings are silly anyway. blah blah blah
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby stahrgazer on Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:50 pm

temporos wrote:
TheForgivenOne wrote:A lack of ratings won't tell much either ;) So he has a 0.1 rating. Maybe he played 100 games, and only got rated by 20 players, and the rest didn't. That wouldn't accurately portray how skilled the opponent is.

I believe the point of half this thread is that the proposed system cannot be any worse than the current system, but has the potential to be better. So what's the harm in trying it?



It can be worse, and likely will. The way people do or do not rate will not change, but the numbers between bad and great will get closer together so that they are indistinguishable. It's a lot easier to see that "5" is probably better than "4" than it would be to see that "0.2" is better than "0.1"
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby ccatman on Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:43 pm

temporos wrote:
ccatman wrote:people who actually deserve 5.0 ratings right now will not get it ever

Take a statistics course no one "deserves" a perfect score.

OH SORRY a 1.9 noone will ever get that
is that good for you? or should i say a 1.999999?
stop telling me to take a statistics course i do not need one
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby temporos on Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:44 pm

Whatever. You people do whatever you want. I will continue to rate people as described in the Instructions. I refuse to subscribe to the "everybody wins" or "5 stars as default" mindset. If you don't impress me in a match, then you're average, and you deserve three stars.

I'm done with this flame war.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby ccatman on Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:19 pm

temporos wrote:Whatever. You people do whatever you want. I will continue to rate people as described in the Instructions. I refuse to subscribe to the "everybody wins" or "5 stars as default" mindset. If you don't impress me in a match, then you're average, and you deserve three stars.

I'm done with this flame war.

see the problem with rating like that and the reason people dont do it mainly is because you dont have enough evidence to tell if someone is a good average or bad player sometimes a move might stick out that effects your game and you will give a good or bad rating because of that move but you would have to study all their moves to give them an accurate rating and another thing is you have to be good yourself in order to tell if they are playing good or not(also a reason why the rating system will always be flawed). and i doubt anyone refreshes their page 24/7 and clicks on a game when they see someone taking a turn just to watch to see if they are playing good or not
me personally i mostly only rate people if i've played with them many times and even then i dont always rate them and again me personally i dont care how you rate but i just want to let you know why your rating style is bad (in my opinion) and why people are going to get mad at you for rating them the way you do
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby jefjef on Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:54 am

LMAO!!!!!!! I sent a pm out Friday night to 1/2 my friends list and I see the no votes came rolling in. :D

All this crap sugg will accomplish is making most of us less distinguishable from those with really deservedly low crap ratings.

No thanks.
This post was made by jefjef who should be on your ignore list.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby MeDeFe on Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:05 am

jefjef wrote:LMAO!!!!!!! I sent a pm out Friday night to 1/2 my friends list and I see the no votes came rolling in. :D

All this crap sugg will accomplish is making most of us less distinguishable from those with really deservedly low crap ratings.

No thanks.

Not at all, you would still be at least 0.2 above the people who got crap ratings and every bit as distinguished as you are right now.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby ccatman on Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:58 pm

MeDeFe wrote:
jefjef wrote:LMAO!!!!!!! I sent a pm out Friday night to 1/2 my friends list and I see the no votes came rolling in. :D

All this crap sugg will accomplish is making most of us less distinguishable from those with really deservedly low crap ratings.

No thanks.

Not at all, you would still be at least 0.2 above the people who got crap ratings and every bit as distinguished as you are right now.

a .2 and 2.0 difference is actually very large difference
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby temporos on Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:16 pm

You know what? Fine. Screw it. I'm rescinding all the ratings I've given, and I'm not rating anyone any more. This whole system is a farce. I give up; you status-quo-ers win. Frankly, your mass illogic has beaten me into not caring any more.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:50 pm

temporos wrote:You know what? Fine. Screw it. I'm rescinding all the ratings I've given, and I'm not rating anyone any more. This whole system is a farce. I give up; you status-quo-ers win. Frankly, your mass illogic has beaten me into not caring any more.


Wow, you really are taking this Online gaming site to heart.

I just don't see a real real god reason. A lot of players on here don't care about ratings. Lots of people just dish out ratings to get the rating medal. You can rate people how you want, unless you are abusing it. Some people like to rate people just for the heck of it, and if the person wasn't a nuisance, they just give out the 5. The fact now that it will be if they don't rate, it's a 0, I REALLY don't see it changing these kind of peoples minds on how to rate. They really aren't inclined to. They'd basically have to ask in game Chat asking people to please rate them, just so they don't get an "average" rating.

That's all I see what will happen, and the ratings curve will just drop from 4.5-4.9, to lower, all based on what kind of players they play.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby waseemalim on Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:13 pm

TheForgivenOne wrote:
temporos wrote:You know what? Fine. Screw it. I'm rescinding all the ratings I've given, and I'm not rating anyone any more. This whole system is a farce. I give up; you status-quo-ers win. Frankly, your mass illogic has beaten me into not caring any more.


Wow, you really are taking this Online gaming site to heart.

I just don't see a real real god reason. A lot of players on here don't care about ratings. Lots of people just dish out ratings to get the rating medal. You can rate people how you want, unless you are abusing it. Some people like to rate people just for the heck of it, and if the person wasn't a nuisance, they just give out the 5. The fact now that it will be if they don't rate, it's a 0, I REALLY don't see it changing these kind of peoples minds on how to rate. They really aren't inclined to. They'd basically have to ask in game Chat asking people to please rate them, just so they don't get an "average" rating.

That's all I see what will happen, and the ratings curve will just drop from 4.5-4.9, to lower, all based on what kind of players they play.


So what's your point? Your arguments would suggest that there is no point in having a rating system at all.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby ccatman on Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:59 pm

first of all temporos honestly you only have 34 games played i think you need to learn the site a little better before you can make any judgements on other people and how they view ratings
and waseemallm what we've been trying to argue is the rating system we have now might have its downsides but it does have a purpose and does get 1 point across and that is who the awful people are you dont want to play with and who the ok people are and what this new suggestion will do is prevent you from telling whos really bad or really good because the ratings will be all closer to 0
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby MeDeFe on Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:49 am

ccatman wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:
jefjef wrote:LMAO!!!!!!! I sent a pm out Friday night to 1/2 my friends list and I see the no votes came rolling in. :D

All this crap sugg will accomplish is making most of us less distinguishable from those with really deservedly low crap ratings.

No thanks.

Not at all, you would still be at least 0.2 above the people who got crap ratings and every bit as distinguished as you are right now.

a .2 and 2.0 difference is actually very large difference

It's 0.2 now, it would still be 0.2 (or more) under the proposed system.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby ccatman on Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:29 am

MeDeFe wrote:
ccatman wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:
jefjef wrote:LMAO!!!!!!! I sent a pm out Friday night to 1/2 my friends list and I see the no votes came rolling in. :D

All this crap sugg will accomplish is making most of us less distinguishable from those with really deservedly low crap ratings.

No thanks.

Not at all, you would still be at least 0.2 above the people who got crap ratings and every bit as distinguished as you are right now.

a .2 and 2.0 difference is actually very large difference

It's 0.2 now, it would still be 0.2 (or more) under the proposed system.

maybe i missunderstood what you were saying
but the people who have crap ratings now i look at are people anywhere from 2.5-4.4
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby MeDeFe on Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:06 am

ccatman wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:
ccatman wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:
jefjef wrote:LMAO!!!!!!! I sent a pm out Friday night to 1/2 my friends list and I see the no votes came rolling in. :D

All this crap sugg will accomplish is making most of us less distinguishable from those with really deservedly low crap ratings.

No thanks.

Not at all, you would still be at least 0.2 above the people who got crap ratings and every bit as distinguished as you are right now.

a .2 and 2.0 difference is actually very large difference

It's 0.2 now, it would still be 0.2 (or more) under the proposed system.

maybe i missunderstood what you were saying
but the people who have crap ratings now i look at are people anywhere from 2.5-4.4

And under the proposed system you would be looking at people anywhere from 1-2.9 (Or -2 to 0, but I don't much like that version myself).
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby gimil on Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:11 am

I have not read this thread because I find all 15 pages a little overwealing to go through for the sake of what I want to say, so here it goes. if I have repeated something then jsut shoot me down!

The current rating system works fine for me but I think it could be improved upon rather than changed. My suggestion incorporates (sort of) the current rating system with aspects of temporos original suggestion in this thread.

If we maintain the current system (1-5 with 3 stars being the default average if you choose to leave feedback) and change how it is visually represented we may be able to change how people perceive it to work. rather than having 5 orange stars (as current) we have rating 1-2 (poor) as red, 3 (average) as orange and 4-5 (excellent) as green. With the visual cue of different colours then people may get behind the idea of making average ratings (3's) as standard rather than always giving excellent (5's) as ratings.

Does that make sense? When I get home I will throw something up in photoshop to try and better represent what I am saying. If people think I am talking nonsense let me know and I will shut up. (maybe O:) )
What do you know about map making, bitch?

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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:16 am

gimil wrote:If we maintain the current system (1-5 with 3 stars being the default average if you choose to leave feedback) and change how it is visually represented we may be able to change how people perceive it to work. rather than having 5 orange stars (as current) we have rating 1-2 (poor) as red, 3 (average) as orange and 4-5 (excellent) as green. With the visual cue of different colours then people may get behind the idea of making average ratings (3's) as standard rather than always giving excellent (5's) as ratings.

Does that make sense? When I get home I will throw something up in photoshop to try and better represent what I am saying. If people think I am talking nonsense let me know and I will shut up. (maybe O:) )


I believe this would be antithetical to the goal. temporos points out (and I agree) that the reason people don't give low ratings is because they're stuck in the "everyone's a winner" mentality. If you change the lower stars to red, which most people would agree indicates something worse, then you make it even less likely to get low ratings because people don't want to do something like that, which would stick out even more blatantly.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby temporos on Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:46 am

TheForgivenOne wrote:Wow, you really are taking this Online gaming site to heart.

I do nothing half-assed. That includes on-line gaming sites and forums. I expect nothing less than pure logic from myself and everyone else. If one doesn't take Conquer Club "to heart," then perhaps he should find something that is more worthy of his time and attention.
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... What? This is a game of global conquest, isn't it? ;)
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby Victor Sullivan on Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:33 pm

temporos wrote:
TheForgivenOne wrote:Wow, you really are taking this Online gaming site to heart.

I do nothing half-assed. That includes on-line gaming sites and forums. I expect nothing less than pure logic from myself and everyone else. If one doesn't take Conquer Club "to heart," then perhaps he should find something that is more worthy of his time and attention.

I can't explain how shweet of a statement this is, so I will sig it. :D
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby ccatman on Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:25 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
gimil wrote:If we maintain the current system (1-5 with 3 stars being the default average if you choose to leave feedback) and change how it is visually represented we may be able to change how people perceive it to work. rather than having 5 orange stars (as current) we have rating 1-2 (poor) as red, 3 (average) as orange and 4-5 (excellent) as green. With the visual cue of different colours then people may get behind the idea of making average ratings (3's) as standard rather than always giving excellent (5's) as ratings.

Does that make sense? When I get home I will throw something up in photoshop to try and better represent what I am saying. If people think I am talking nonsense let me know and I will shut up. (maybe O:) )


I believe this would be antithetical to the goal. temporos points out (and I agree) that the reason people don't give low ratings is because they're stuck in the "everyone's a winner" mentality. If you change the lower stars to red, which most people would agree indicates something worse, then you make it even less likely to get low ratings because people don't want to do something like that, which would stick out even more blatantly.

actually thats false i think
all you guys are running on now is hope thats all that you have and as temporos said "i expect nothing less than pure logic" hope is not logic
and to add to this i've already told you i will not change the way i rate judgeing by the poll other people are NOT going to change the way they rate and even if some people do change the way they rate we cant have half the people voting differently then the other half on the site because that just messes up the rating system even more
we already have a system that is accurate to the point where it has a purpose and it does get the point across of whos who. the mods dont need to waste there time here they need to fix or add other things to the game that people want to see in the game that MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby gimil on Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:44 pm

ccatman wrote:actually thats false i think
all you guys are running on now is hope thats all that you have and as temporos said "i expect nothing less than pure logic" hope is not logic
and to add to this i've already told you i will not change the way i rate judgeing by the poll other people are NOT going to change the way they rate and even if some people do change the way they rate we cant have half the people voting differently then the other half on the site because that just messes up the rating system even more
we already have a system that is accurate to the point where it has a purpose and it does get the point across of whos who. the mods dont need to waste there time here they need to fix or add other things to the game that people want to see in the game that MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK


point taken ccatman, I personally feel that my idea is the way the rating system should work and (i think) this was the way it was intended to work. However like you said it is not a priority, but rather something I would like to see done due to my own biased opinion on the rating system.
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