[Site] Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

This forum is a storehouse for all Finalized Suggestions to be periodically reviewed during Feature Updates.

Moderators: Suggestions Team, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Should we change the rating system, or leave it as it is?

Yes, change it.
76
52%
No, leave it.
70
48%
 
Total votes : 146

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby ccatman on Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:59 pm

first of all temporos honestly you only have 34 games played i think you need to learn the site a little better before you can make any judgements on other people and how they view ratings
and waseemallm what we've been trying to argue is the rating system we have now might have its downsides but it does have a purpose and does get 1 point across and that is who the awful people are you dont want to play with and who the ok people are and what this new suggestion will do is prevent you from telling whos really bad or really good because the ratings will be all closer to 0
User avatar
Colonel ccatman
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:10 pm
Location: Rhode Island
Medals: 56
Conqueror Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2)
Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby MeDeFe on Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:49 am

ccatman wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:
jefjef wrote:LMAO!!!!!!! I sent a pm out Friday night to 1/2 my friends list and I see the no votes came rolling in. :D

All this crap sugg will accomplish is making most of us less distinguishable from those with really deservedly low crap ratings.

No thanks.

Not at all, you would still be at least 0.2 above the people who got crap ratings and every bit as distinguished as you are right now.

a .2 and 2.0 difference is actually very large difference

It's 0.2 now, it would still be 0.2 (or more) under the proposed system.
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
User avatar
Major MeDeFe
 
Posts: 8098
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:48 am
Location: Follow the trail of holes in other people's arguments.
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) General Achievement (3) General Contribution (7)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby ccatman on Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:29 am

MeDeFe wrote:
ccatman wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:
jefjef wrote:LMAO!!!!!!! I sent a pm out Friday night to 1/2 my friends list and I see the no votes came rolling in. :D

All this crap sugg will accomplish is making most of us less distinguishable from those with really deservedly low crap ratings.

No thanks.

Not at all, you would still be at least 0.2 above the people who got crap ratings and every bit as distinguished as you are right now.

a .2 and 2.0 difference is actually very large difference

It's 0.2 now, it would still be 0.2 (or more) under the proposed system.

maybe i missunderstood what you were saying
but the people who have crap ratings now i look at are people anywhere from 2.5-4.4
User avatar
Colonel ccatman
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:10 pm
Location: Rhode Island
Medals: 56
Conqueror Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2)
Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby MeDeFe on Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:06 am

ccatman wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:
ccatman wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:
jefjef wrote:LMAO!!!!!!! I sent a pm out Friday night to 1/2 my friends list and I see the no votes came rolling in. :D

All this crap sugg will accomplish is making most of us less distinguishable from those with really deservedly low crap ratings.

No thanks.

Not at all, you would still be at least 0.2 above the people who got crap ratings and every bit as distinguished as you are right now.

a .2 and 2.0 difference is actually very large difference

It's 0.2 now, it would still be 0.2 (or more) under the proposed system.

maybe i missunderstood what you were saying
but the people who have crap ratings now i look at are people anywhere from 2.5-4.4

And under the proposed system you would be looking at people anywhere from 1-2.9 (Or -2 to 0, but I don't much like that version myself).
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
User avatar
Major MeDeFe
 
Posts: 8098
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:48 am
Location: Follow the trail of holes in other people's arguments.
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) General Achievement (3) General Contribution (7)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby gimil on Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:11 am

I have not read this thread because I find all 15 pages a little overwealing to go through for the sake of what I want to say, so here it goes. if I have repeated something then jsut shoot me down!

The current rating system works fine for me but I think it could be improved upon rather than changed. My suggestion incorporates (sort of) the current rating system with aspects of temporos original suggestion in this thread.

If we maintain the current system (1-5 with 3 stars being the default average if you choose to leave feedback) and change how it is visually represented we may be able to change how people perceive it to work. rather than having 5 orange stars (as current) we have rating 1-2 (poor) as red, 3 (average) as orange and 4-5 (excellent) as green. With the visual cue of different colours then people may get behind the idea of making average ratings (3's) as standard rather than always giving excellent (5's) as ratings.

Does that make sense? When I get home I will throw something up in photoshop to try and better represent what I am saying. If people think I am talking nonsense let me know and I will shut up. (maybe O:) )
What do you know about map making, bitch?

natty_dread wrote:I was wrong


Top Score:2403
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class gimil
 
Posts: 8605
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:42 pm
Location: United Kingdom (Scotland)
Medals: 39
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (2) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (5)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:16 am

gimil wrote:If we maintain the current system (1-5 with 3 stars being the default average if you choose to leave feedback) and change how it is visually represented we may be able to change how people perceive it to work. rather than having 5 orange stars (as current) we have rating 1-2 (poor) as red, 3 (average) as orange and 4-5 (excellent) as green. With the visual cue of different colours then people may get behind the idea of making average ratings (3's) as standard rather than always giving excellent (5's) as ratings.

Does that make sense? When I get home I will throw something up in photoshop to try and better represent what I am saying. If people think I am talking nonsense let me know and I will shut up. (maybe O:) )


I believe this would be antithetical to the goal. temporos points out (and I agree) that the reason people don't give low ratings is because they're stuck in the "everyone's a winner" mentality. If you change the lower stars to red, which most people would agree indicates something worse, then you make it even less likely to get low ratings because people don't want to do something like that, which would stick out even more blatantly.
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3692
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby temporos on Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:46 am

TheForgivenOne wrote:Wow, you really are taking this Online gaming site to heart.

I do nothing half-assed. That includes on-line gaming sites and forums. I expect nothing less than pure logic from myself and everyone else. If one doesn't take Conquer Club "to heart," then perhaps he should find something that is more worthy of his time and attention.
--
The Great and Powerful T.

... What? This is a game of global conquest, isn't it? ;)
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class temporos
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:37 pm
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, United States
Medals: 5
Standard Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby Victor Sullivan on Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:33 pm

temporos wrote:
TheForgivenOne wrote:Wow, you really are taking this Online gaming site to heart.

I do nothing half-assed. That includes on-line gaming sites and forums. I expect nothing less than pure logic from myself and everyone else. If one doesn't take Conquer Club "to heart," then perhaps he should find something that is more worthy of his time and attention.

I can't explain how shweet of a statement this is, so I will sig it. :D
User avatar
Corporal Victor Sullivan
 
Posts: 7197
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:17 pm
Location: Columbus, OH
Medals: 45
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)
General Achievement (9) Map Contribution (4) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (6)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby ccatman on Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:25 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
gimil wrote:If we maintain the current system (1-5 with 3 stars being the default average if you choose to leave feedback) and change how it is visually represented we may be able to change how people perceive it to work. rather than having 5 orange stars (as current) we have rating 1-2 (poor) as red, 3 (average) as orange and 4-5 (excellent) as green. With the visual cue of different colours then people may get behind the idea of making average ratings (3's) as standard rather than always giving excellent (5's) as ratings.

Does that make sense? When I get home I will throw something up in photoshop to try and better represent what I am saying. If people think I am talking nonsense let me know and I will shut up. (maybe O:) )


I believe this would be antithetical to the goal. temporos points out (and I agree) that the reason people don't give low ratings is because they're stuck in the "everyone's a winner" mentality. If you change the lower stars to red, which most people would agree indicates something worse, then you make it even less likely to get low ratings because people don't want to do something like that, which would stick out even more blatantly.

actually thats false i think
all you guys are running on now is hope thats all that you have and as temporos said "i expect nothing less than pure logic" hope is not logic
and to add to this i've already told you i will not change the way i rate judgeing by the poll other people are NOT going to change the way they rate and even if some people do change the way they rate we cant have half the people voting differently then the other half on the site because that just messes up the rating system even more
we already have a system that is accurate to the point where it has a purpose and it does get the point across of whos who. the mods dont need to waste there time here they need to fix or add other things to the game that people want to see in the game that MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK
User avatar
Colonel ccatman
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:10 pm
Location: Rhode Island
Medals: 56
Conqueror Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2)
Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby gimil on Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:44 pm

ccatman wrote:actually thats false i think
all you guys are running on now is hope thats all that you have and as temporos said "i expect nothing less than pure logic" hope is not logic
and to add to this i've already told you i will not change the way i rate judgeing by the poll other people are NOT going to change the way they rate and even if some people do change the way they rate we cant have half the people voting differently then the other half on the site because that just messes up the rating system even more
we already have a system that is accurate to the point where it has a purpose and it does get the point across of whos who. the mods dont need to waste there time here they need to fix or add other things to the game that people want to see in the game that MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK


point taken ccatman, I personally feel that my idea is the way the rating system should work and (i think) this was the way it was intended to work. However like you said it is not a priority, but rather something I would like to see done due to my own biased opinion on the rating system.
What do you know about map making, bitch?

natty_dread wrote:I was wrong


Top Score:2403
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class gimil
 
Posts: 8605
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:42 pm
Location: United Kingdom (Scotland)
Medals: 39
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (2) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (5)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby stahrgazer on Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:49 pm

jefjef wrote:LMAO!!!!!!! I sent a pm out Friday night to 1/2 my friends list and I see the no votes came rolling in. :D

All this crap sugg will accomplish is making most of us less distinguishable from those with really deservedly low crap ratings.

No thanks.


Bingo.
Image
User avatar
Captain stahrgazer
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:59 am
Location: Figment of the Imagination...
Medals: 52
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (6) Tournament Contribution (1)
General Contribution (7)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:23 am

Just out of curiosity, jefjef and company, do you think that's something we're ignoring when we support this suggestion?
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3692
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby stahrgazer on Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:44 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:Just out of curiosity, jefjef and company, do you think that's something we're ignoring when we support this suggestion?


Yes, I think you're ignoring it or think that's of benefit. I disagree that making really bad ratings look indistinguishable from really good ratings constitutes "a good thing."

If the premise is, "no one is using the ratings system the way we interpret that it should be used," this change doesn't change what's wrong with that system.

You're suggesting that "no rating" be made equivalent to "average rating" and you're suggesting that the rating numbers be moved closer together. This assumes that the reasons people are not using the rating system the way you think it should be used is because whenever they're not rating, they're not rating "an average player."

Perhaps the premise is, if every game got fed into the rating system, that would force people to actually punch the thing to put in the stars they think are appropriate.

1) I don't care to be forced, thank you
2) You still cannot force people to use the rating system the way you interpret is appropriate, even if this change goes through to "force" people to use the system at all
3) You're simply changing the way things are skewed, not changing the fact that things are generally skewed
4) I don't see the purpose of making a change that won't fix things; that's "change for change's sake" rather than change based on rational thinking.
5) At least with the current system, a player can see whether another player is really popular or really unpopular, which means it's not all that broken after all.
Image
User avatar
Captain stahrgazer
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:59 am
Location: Figment of the Imagination...
Medals: 52
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (6) Tournament Contribution (1)
General Contribution (7)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:56 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:Just out of curiosity, jefjef and company, do you think that's something we're ignoring when we support this suggestion?


Yes, I think you're ignoring it or think that's of benefit. I disagree that making really bad ratings look indistinguishable from really good ratings constitutes "a good thing."


No, I just disagree with the premise in the first place. It's true that there probably won't be anyone ranked -1.8 in the new system. Still, even if the bad players are ranked -0.6, which is likely, you'll still be able to tell them apart. It is not the case that everyone will be ranked within -0.3 to 0.3. It's just true that the people that aren't exceptionally bad (or good) will probably be near there.

If the premise is, "no one is using the ratings system the way we interpret that it should be used," this change doesn't change what's wrong with that system.


No, but it's pretty hard to fix that issue. This is the next best solution.

You're suggesting that "no rating" be made equivalent to "average rating" and you're suggesting that the rating numbers be moved closer together. This assumes that the reasons people are not using the rating system the way you think it should be used is because whenever they're not rating, they're not rating "an average player."


Incorrect inference. I addressed this a couple of pages ago.

Perhaps the premise is, if every game got fed into the rating system, that would force people to actually punch the thing to put in the stars they think are appropriate.

1) I don't care to be forced, thank you


You're not forced to do anything. You can continue to rate the same way you want to after the change, if you so desire. I only hope that people will be motivated to rate differently because of this. I have no illusions that anyone will feel forced.

2) You still cannot force people to use the rating system the way you interpret is appropriate, even if this change goes through to "force" people to use the system at all


Not trying to. Only hoping that people will use all of the rating scale, if possible.

3) You're simply changing the way things are skewed, not changing the fact that things are generally skewed


Irrelevant. Not a reason to not do this.
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3692
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0) [Stickied ~ TFO]

Postby ccatman on Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:08 pm

good job again you have managed to respond to another users post without giving any facts why this is a good idea
User avatar
Colonel ccatman
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:10 pm
Location: Rhode Island
Medals: 56
Conqueror Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2)
Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10)

PreviousNext

Return to Submitted Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Login