[GL] Game Log 2.0

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Postby towhitehead on Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:25 pm

Ahhh - thanks! It seemed like such a good idea I should have known somebody would have already suggested it!
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More info on game log

Postby kozone4 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:09 pm

Not sure if there's already a post, but I think the log should have more info pertaining to how many troops were used in an attack, and how many were lost in the defense.

For example:

2008-02-20 02:02:05 - Player A attacked Irkutsk with 12 troops from Mongolia and conquered it from Player B who lost 6 troops during the defense.
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Postby spiesr on Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:46 pm

Game Log 2.0 is on the to-do list.

Please thoroughly read the following threads and perform a forum search before making suggestions:
Suggestions Box (Lack's 'To-Do' List)
Suggestion & Bug Report Forms
Map Bug? Plugin Bug?
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Advanced and Verbose Logging

Postby reconciledthief on Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:43 pm

Suggestion: increase log verbosity, create standard logging format, add "download log" link.
Uses: Replay/Reanimation plugins/apps that could digest and parse a given log.

There are only a few things that I can think of off hand that would be necessary, and I believe some of these features are included in other feature enhancements...

1) Record starting position of each player.
2) Record each attack/defense.
3) Record the rolls for attack/defense.
4) Develop standard log format that is easy to parse. XML might be useful, but you could come up with your own. For example:

<reconciledthief><From_Territory><3,2,6><defender_name><To_Territory><2,2>
Where the columns are:

Attacker Name | Attack From Territory Name | Dice rolls | Defender Name | To_Territory | Dice Rolls

You might have to add more tags to signify whether then following data would be for a fortification, or for an attack. Prefixing the log with an <a> or an <f> might solve that.

5) Place a link on finished games to download the log.


This would allow community members to write the replay/reanimation application, taking load off of the CC programmer(s). Obviously, once the app is written, you could integrate it into the CC website, or just leave it in the community's hands.

There's already a decent amount of info in the log, so the real request here is for more verbosity. A standard for how the logs are written isn't a necessity, but it would be somewhat beneficial, I believe.

Apologies if this has been asked before. I did a search and found a single thread, but there was no conclusion to it, really, so I wanted to bring this up again.
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Postby yeti_c on Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:48 pm

This is *technically* on the Todo as "Game Log 2.0"...

But your post goes into a fair bit more detail and is well thought out.

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Postby cicero on Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:26 pm

Game Replay is my own personal 'most wished for' feature. Hence "bring on Game Log 2.0" !!

It allows others to marvel at the beauty of your strategy.

And it makes cheats easier to confirm.


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Postby yeti_c on Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:44 am

One slight word of warning for "replays"...

Whoever codes it will have to make their own numbers to overlay on the maps... this is because the numbers are generated by the server - and the server only generates the *latest* state... this is why the BOB snapshots feature was hard to code - I had to save the current "armies.png" down in order to preserve the exact state...

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Postby reconciledthief on Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:09 am

Well, generating the images that represent numbers shouldn't be that difficult. Creating the numbers themselves--making them up accurately--is practically impossible, unless you have a good starting point. You'd have to know exactly where every person started, so that you can base subsequent rolls, fortifications, and advancements on something. That's why I think it should be logged, as it takes the guess work out of the logic inside the re-play/animation app.

Whenever I script or program, I tend to log way more than necessary so that I don't end up in a situation where I'm wondering why I didn't log something.

I'll have into check out this "Game Log" utility you guys speak of. Sounds interesting.
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Postby yeti_c on Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:12 am

Indeed - hence why replay add-ons aren't made yet (Well actually there is one but it doesn't show numbers)

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Postby TaCktiX on Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:59 am

I think recording the actual dice rolls in any way is complete overkill and unnecessary. Now here's an excerpt in what I think Game Log 2.0 should be:

TaCktiX started with [territory list].
TaCktiX deploys 3 armies on [territory].
TaCktiX attacks [territory] and weakens it from [#] to [#], but loses [#] against the Defender.
TaCktiX attacks [other territory] and conquers it from [player].
TaCktiX fortified [territory] with [#] from [other territory].


So under Game Log 2.0, I'm expecting...

...Each turn knowing what a person started with ("Territory (#)" form)
...Any note of armies lost in attack or defense
...Everything else we've got right now

That shouldn't be as vicious on Lack as specific dice roll records, and will have the same strategic value to us all as we need.
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Re:

Postby reconciledthief on Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:25 pm

TaCktiX wrote:I think recording the actual dice rolls in any way is complete overkill and unnecessary. Now here's an excerpt in what I think Game Log 2.0 should be:

TaCktiX started with [territory list].
TaCktiX deploys 3 armies on [territory].
TaCktiX attacks [territory] and weakens it from [#] to [#], but loses [#] against the Defender.
TaCktiX attacks [other territory] and conquers it from [player].
TaCktiX fortified [territory] with [#] from [other territory].


So under Game Log 2.0, I'm expecting...

...Each turn knowing what a person started with ("Territory (#)" form)
...Any note of armies lost in attack or defense
...Everything else we've got right now

That shouldn't be as vicious on Lack as specific dice roll records, and will have the same strategic value to us all as we need.


Depending on how the DB is laid out, it wouldn't be much more resource intensive to add the dice roll data. I'll concede that it's more data than what your example proposes, but it's far from vicious. It wouldn't necessarily require an insert statement per roll, as the rolls could be cached and then batch inserted at the end of the turn with all of the other detail that already gets inserted at the end of each turn.

Regardless, it's not a necessity at all. Just provides a way to further analyze completed games.
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Re: Game Log 2.0 [To-Do]

Postby yeti_c on Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:17 am

So - specifics...

I think we need the following added to the "full logs"...

a) Initial deployment.
i.e.
Red starts the game with afghanistan, kamchatka, china, India.
Blue starts the game with siam, ukraine, great britain, irkutsk.
etc
b) Every attack.
i.e.
Red attacks Great Britain from Iceland with 3 armies against 2 armies, Result 1-1.
Red attacks Great Britain from Iceland with 3 armies against 1 armies, Result 0-1.
Red attacks Great Britain from Iceland with 3 armies against 1 armies and conquers it, Result 1-0.
c) Every Bombardment.
i.e.
Red bombards Great Britain from Iceland with 3 armies against 2 armies, Result 1-1.
Red bombards Great Britain from Iceland with 3 armies against 1 armies, Result 0-1.
Red bombadrs Great Britain from Iceland with 3 armies against 1 armies and annihilates it, Result 1-0.
d) Every "Killer Neutral"
i.e.
Neutral has respawned at Great Britain killing 20 Red armies.

Anymore suggestions?

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Re: Game Log 2.0 [To-Do]

Postby Herakilla on Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:28 am

it would be great to add the dice in there but that would really fill it up in some games, if you do that for sure make it into one line for auto attacks (e.g. Red attacks Great Britain from Iceland with 3 armies against 2 armies, Result 12-5.) that way you dont get several lines of 2-0. 1-1, 0-2, 1-0, and 0-1
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Re: Game Log 2.0 [To-Do]

Postby yeti_c on Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:24 am

Although not stricly to do with Log 2.0...

However - to make Replays Much better...

It would be good - if the map.php call can be supplied with an array of army counts for it to display.

My only concern - is that this might cause a lot of work for the server.

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Re: Game Log 2.0 [To-Do]

Postby BaldAdonis on Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:19 am

yeti_c wrote:I think we need the following added to the "full logs"...

a) Initial deployment.
i.e.
Red starts the game with afghanistan, kamchatka, china, India.
Blue starts the game with siam, ukraine, great britain, irkutsk.
etc

I don't think this is necessary: initial deployment can already be put together based on the state of the board and actions that the current game log gives, except in the case of deadbeats. Maybe then once someone is kicked out of the game, a list of what they left? You'd want that anyways to do proper replays, otherwise the assumption that neutrals start with 3 won't give the right army counts to attacks on neutral territories that were abandoned.
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Re: Game Log 2.0 [To-Do]

Postby yeti_c on Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:05 am

BaldAdonis wrote:
yeti_c wrote:I think we need the following added to the "full logs"...

a) Initial deployment.
i.e.
Red starts the game with afghanistan, kamchatka, china, India.
Blue starts the game with siam, ukraine, great britain, irkutsk.
etc

I don't think this is necessary: initial deployment can already be put together based on the state of the board and actions that the current game log gives, except in the case of deadbeats. Maybe then once someone is kicked out of the game, a list of what they left? You'd want that anyways to do proper replays, otherwise the assumption that neutrals start with 3 won't give the right army counts to attacks on neutral territories that were abandoned.


For the sake of a couple of logs at the beginning of each game - I don't see the harm in including it... it would make my job a lot easier to create a replay function.

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Re: Game Log 2.0 [To-Do]

Postby Sameroh on Sun May 11, 2008 12:35 pm

HAve read the thread and didn't find anyone mentioning this yet. I would really appreciate it if we could see deployments, attacks (as long as your own country is attacked), and fortifications to countries adjacent to yours in a game with fog on. This is because the countries next to you are anyway already 'sunny' thus making it illogical that we shouldn't be able to read about them in the log.

E.g: "X fortified ? with 2 armies from Brazil"
"X attacked Venezuela from ? and conquered it from Y"

In case this has been discussed, rejected or otherwise thought about already, plz forgive me :)
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Re: Game Log 2.0 [To-Do]

Postby Timminz on Sun May 11, 2008 12:55 pm

Sameroh wrote:HAve read the thread and didn't find anyone mentioning this yet. I would really appreciate it if we could see deployments, attacks (as long as your own country is attacked), and fortifications to countries adjacent to yours in a game with fog on. This is because the countries next to you are anyway already 'sunny' thus making it illogical that we shouldn't be able to read about them in the log.

E.g: "X fortified ? with 2 armies from Brazil"
"X attacked Venezuela from ? and conquered it from Y"

In case this has been discussed, rejected or otherwise thought about already, plz forgive me :)


There are other threads dealing with that suggestion.
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Re: Game Log 2.0 [To-Do]

Postby Sameroh on Mon May 12, 2008 3:20 am

Ok - sorry then. It seems I overlooked them... :S Sorry!
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Re: Game Log 2.0 [To-Do]

Postby chipv on Tue May 20, 2008 5:33 pm

Game Log XML awaited eagerly...
Specifically referring to the XML:

Agree with:

All attacks displayed (successful AND unsuccessful esp. with armies lost)
Number of armies at turn start/end

Disagree:

Dice rolls - unsuccessful attack display is sufficient and storing this huge amount
of info at the expense of old logs is not a fair swap. Statistical applications objection noted.

Is there a thread appropriate to post the exact XML I expect from the Game log XML?
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Re: Advanced and Verbose Logging

Postby chipv on Tue May 20, 2008 6:11 pm

EDIT: Added defender tag (based on yeti_c's suggestion)

For the Game Logs XML here is a proposed outline with example data:
(assuming you need to specify game # in the URL for the XML, it is omitted from the data)

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<game>
<label></label>
<status>Active</status>
<joinability>Tournament Game: The Long Walk - Round Twelve</joinability>
<type>Standard</type>
<order>Sequential</order>
<bonus>Flat Rate</bonus>
<fortifications>Unlimited</fortifications>
<fog>No</fog>
<maptype>Africa</maptype>
<timeleft>12hrs 16min 20sec</timeleft>
<round>3</round>
<players>
<starting>8</starting>
<surviving>4</surviving>
<teams>4</teams>
<player>
<name>chipv</name>
<rank>New Recruit</rank>
<team>3</team>
<cards>4</cards>
<armies>20</armies>
<status>waiting/playing/eliminated</status>
<territories>4</territories>
</player>
...
<player>
</player>
</players>
<log> (ordered)
<event>
<type>deploy</type>
<from>NA</from>
<to>Irkutsk</to>
<armies>3</armies>
<defender>NA</defender>
</event>
<event>
<type>attack</type>
<from>Irkutsk</from>
<to>Yakutsk</to>
<armies>-3</armies>
<defender>-2</defender>
</event>
<event>
<type>attack</type>
<from>Siberia</from>
<to>Yakutsk</to>
<armies>8</armies>
<defender>-1</defender>
</event>
<event>
<type>fortification</type>
<from>Yakutsk</from>
<to>Kamchatka</to>
<armies>3</armies>
<defender>NA</defender>
</event>
/log>
</game>

This event log shows an assault on Yakutsk with an unsuccessful attack and a successful attack.
I hope this is the best thread to start this off, although I guess its outline is almost done anyway...
Last edited by chipv on Wed May 21, 2008 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game Log 2.0 [To-Do]

Postby yeti_c on Wed May 21, 2008 2:54 am

chipv wrote:Is there a thread appropriate to post the exact XML I expect from the Game log XML?


This one.

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Re: Advanced and Verbose Logging

Postby yeti_c on Wed May 21, 2008 3:03 am

Looks good - however...

Your <armies> tag is somewhat flawed...

As you need to know both sides of the argument - i.e. how many were lost on both sides.

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Re: Advanced and Verbose Logging

Postby chipv on Wed May 21, 2008 5:18 am

Add a tag!

<defender>-3</defender>
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Re: Game Log 2.0 [To-Do]

Postby chipv on Wed May 21, 2008 5:22 am

Amended xml format with yeti_c's suggestion:

For the Game Logs XML here is a proposed outline with example data:
(assuming you need to specify game # in the URL for the XML, it is omitted from the data)

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<game>
<label></label>
<status>Active</status>
<joinability>Tournament Game: The Long Walk - Round Twelve</joinability>
<type>Standard</type>
<order>Sequential</order>
<bonus>Flat Rate</bonus>
<fortifications>Unlimited</fortifications>
<fog>No</fog>
<maptype>Africa</maptype>
<timeleft>12hrs 16min 20sec</timeleft>
<round>3</round>
<players>
<starting>8</starting>
<surviving>4</surviving>
<teams>4</teams>
<player>
<name>chipv</name>
<rank>New Recruit</rank>
<team>3</team>
<cards>4</cards>
<armies>20</armies>
<status>waiting/playing/eliminated</status>
<territories>4</territories>
</player>
...
<player>
</player>
</players>
<log> (ordered)
<event>
<type>deploy</type>
<from>NA</from>
<to>Irkutsk</to>
<armies>3</armies>
<defender>NA</defender>
</event>
<event>
<type>attack</type>
<from>Irkutsk</from>
<to>Yakutsk</to>
<armies>-3</armies>
<defender>-2</defender>
</event>
<event>
<type>attack</type>
<from>Siberia</from>
<to>Yakutsk</to>
<armies>8</armies>
<defender>-1</defender>
</event>
<event>
<type>fortification</type>
<from>Yakutsk</from>
<to>Kamchatka</to>
<armies>3</armies>
<defender>NA</defender>
</event>
</log>
</game>

This event log shows an assault on Yakutsk with an unsuccessful attack and a successful attack.
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