[GL] Game Log 2.0

[WOTE]

I would really love to see this, and it would solve many of the obstacles that are in the game log: make the game log click-able so that when you click on an action in it, the map will show what it looked like at the point in the game.

This would help both players in the game to better understand what happened (seeing as you can click on the previous action for the before and after kind of thing) and help players viewing the game to look at how it progressed if they only start looking at the end.

Just like Chess Games...
1. e4 e6
2. d4 d5
3. Nc3 dxe4
4. Nxe4 Nf6
5. Bg5 Be7
6. Bxf6 Bxf6
7. Nf3 O-O
8. Qd2 Nc6
9. O-O-O Be7
10. Bd3 f5
11. Nfg5 fxe4
12. Bxe4 Bxg5
13. f4 Bxf4

[flyingwalrus69]

Can we have a more detailed game log showing all of an opponents actions from previous turns? It would be really useful to know if an opponent tried to attack you on a previous turn, for obvious reasons. Sometimes it is not very obvious if you have been attacked. I would even like to see all the dice rolls from their turns as well. You have access to all of this information in "real" Risk, so why not in CC?

[cicero]

hi flyingwalrus69

Thanks for posting your suggestion.

This has actually already been suggested. Take a look at the Game Log 2.0 thread and join in the discussion there.

Cicero

[ztodd]

Example log entry for unsuccessful/stopped attack: Kamchatka attacks Alaska: 6G -> 4R Result: 3G -> 2R.
Example log entry for successful attack (takeover): Kamchatka attacks Alaska: 6G -> 4R Result: 1G -> 3G.

G and R are the color codes for green and red.

That's what I'd want to see. Anyone agree?

I think the server should keep track of all changes from beginning of attack phase to end of attack phase and spit out just the final results in the format above. Something similar can be put in the xml file. Too complicated a programming change? Send me the code or give me access - I'll do it.

This has been in the works for at least a year, right? What's the hold up? Are you all waiting on the players to agree on something?

Just provide the XML and leave it to the greasemonkeys to make the game replayer.

[blakebowling]

I think the server should keep track of all changes from beginning of attack phase to end of attack phase and spit out just the final results in the format above. Something similar can be put in the xml file. Too complicated a programming change? Send me the code or give me access - I'll do it.

This has been in the works for at least a year, right? What's the hold up? Are you all waiting on the players to agree on something?

Just provide the XML and leave it to the greasemonkeys to make the game replayer.

First, XML is how the territories and bonuses are coded, not the game engine.
Second, this is being worked on, they would rather do one large update (with all new Game Log features) rather than many small updates.
Third, I like the idea of a game replayer, I think that this would require two sets of logs though, simple logs that are loaded regularly, and extended logs that are loaded by the replayer.

[cspare]

I was thinking about something like this: (based on Chipv's example)

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<gamelog>
<gameinfo>
   <label></label>
   <status>Active</status>
   <joinability>Tournament Game: The Long Walk - Round Twelve</joinability>
   <type>Standard</type>
   <order>Sequential</order>
   <bonus>Flat Rate</bonus>
   <fortifications>Unlimited</fortifications>
   <fog>No</fog>
   <maptype>Africa</maptype>
   <timeleft>12hrs 16min 20sec</timeleft>
   <round>3</round>
   <players>
      <player id="78109" team="1" status="eliminated">cSpare1</player>
      <player id="78110" team="1" status="playing">cSpare2</player>
      <player id="78111" team="2" status="waiting">chipv1</player>
      <player id="78112" team="2" status="eliminated">chipv2</player>
   </players>
</gameinfo>
<log>
   (...)
   <round number="2" date="2008-10-17 17:12:11">
      (...)
      <turn player="78109" date="2008-10-21 11:44:02">
         <DeployEvent date="2008-10-21 11:45:14" territory="Irkutsk" troops="3"/>
         <AssaultEvent targetplayer="78112" date="2008-10-21 11:45:15" from="Siberia" to="Yakutsk" attackers="3" defenders="3" win="2" loss="3" advance="0"/>
         <AssaultEvent targetplayer="78112" date="2008-10-21 11:45:54" from="Irkutsk" to="Yakutsk" attackers="23" defenders="1" win="1" loss="1" advance="21"/>
         <EliminateEvent targetplayer="78112" date="2008-10-21 11:45:54" spoilsAmount="2"/>
         <FortifyEvent date="2008-10-21 11:46:02" from="Yakutsk" to="Kamchatka" troops="3"/>
         <SpoilsEvent date="2008-10-21 11:46:02" amount="1"/>         
      </turn>
   </round>
   <round number="3" date="2008-10-21 11:46:02">
      <turn player="78111" date="2008-10-21 11:46:02">
         <CashGroupEvent troops="10">
            <Group color="Green">Algeria</Group>
            <Group color="Red">East Australia</Group>
            <Group color="Blue">Norwegian Claim</Group>      
         </CashGroupEvent>
         <BonusEvent troops="2" territory="Algeria"/>      
      </turn>
   </round>
</log>
</gamelog>


What do you guys think?

[yeti_c]

Just provide the XML and leave it to the greasemonkeys to make the game replayer.

First, XML is how the territories and bonuses are coded, not the game engine.

Actually in this instance - Lack said that he would be willing to provide the log in XML - so that script writers can parse the log easier.

I was thinking about something like this: (based on Chipv's example)

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<gamelog>
<gameinfo>
   <label></label>
   <status>Active</status>
   <joinability>Tournament Game: The Long Walk - Round Twelve</joinability>
   <type>Standard</type>
   <order>Sequential</order>
   <bonus>Flat Rate</bonus>
   <fortifications>Unlimited</fortifications>
   <fog>No</fog>
   <maptype>Africa</maptype>
   <timeleft>12hrs 16min 20sec</timeleft>
   <round>3</round>
   <players>
      <player id="78109" team="1" status="eliminated">cSpare1</player>
      <player id="78110" team="1" status="playing">cSpare2</player>
      <player id="78111" team="2" status="waiting">chipv1</player>
      <player id="78112" team="2" status="eliminated">chipv2</player>
   </players>
</gameinfo>
<log>
(...)
   <round number="2" date="2008-10-17 17:12:11">
      <turn player="78109" date="2008-10-21 11:44:02">
         <DeployEvent date="2008-10-21 11:45:14" territory="Irkutsk" troops="3"/>
         <AssaultEvent targetplayer="78112" date="2008-10-21 11:45:15" from="Siberia" to="Yakutsk" attackers="3" defenders="3" win="2" loss="3" advance="0"/>
         <AssaultEvent targetplayer="78112" date="2008-10-21 11:45:54" from="Irkutsk" to="Yakutsk" attackers="23" defenders="1" win="1" loss="1" advance="21"/>
         <EliminateEvent targetplayer="78112" date="2008-10-21 11:45:54" spoilsAmount="2"/>
         <FortifyEvent date="2008-10-21 11:46:02" from="Yakutsk" to="Kamchatka" troops="3"/>
         <SpoilsEvent date="2008-10-21 11:46:02" amount="1"/>         
      </turn>
   </round>
   <round number="3" date="2008-10-21 11:46:02">
      <turn player="78111" date="2008-10-21 11:46:02">
         <CashGroupEvent troops="10">
            <Group color="Green">Algeria</Group>
            <Group color="Red">East Australia</Group>
            <Group color="Blue">Norwegian Claim</Group>      
         </CashGroupEvent>
         <BonusEvent troops="2" territory="Algeria"/>      
      </turn>
   </round>
</log>
</gamelog>


What do you guys think?

I like it - Could even extend to have a chat log in the system?

Code: Select all

<chatlog>
  <round number="1">
    <chat datetime="200810212200">Good luck everyone</chat>
  </round>
</chatlog>


C.

[cspare]

I like it - Could even extend to have a chat log in the system?

Code: Select all

<chatlog>
  <round number="1">
    <chat datetime="200810212200">Good luck everyone</chat>
  </round>
</chatlog>


C.

That's a good idea, would be nice to include aswell yea.
Though I myself wouldn't really need the data for ConqerStats, so I'd prefer the chatlog to be in a seperate XML file. Now that I think of it I think the GameInfo element should be in a separate file also, as that information can be used for a much more purposes.

[yeti_c]

That's a good idea, would be nice to include aswell yea.
Though I myself wouldn't really need the data for ConqerStats, so I'd prefer the chatlog to be in a seperate XML file. Now that I think of it I think the GameInfo element should be in a separate file also, as that information can be used for a much more purposes.

Yeah - that could work... 3 separate XML files that would be easily callable/parsable.

(I don't need the chat either - but it'd be good to upgrade everything at the same time!)

Although with times stamps that are easily parsable - I could use that info for useful stuff.

C.

[cspare]

Code: Select all

   <round number="2" date="2008-10-17 17:12:11">
      (...)
      <turn player="78109" date="2008-10-21 11:44:02">
         <DeployEvent date="2008-10-21 11:45:14" territory="Irkutsk" troops="3"/>
      </turn>
   </round>



Hmm, I was thinking a bit more, I figure the <turn> element won't work for freestyle games. (Because multiple turns can occur at the same time). I guess something like a TurnStartEvent and TurnEndEvent element would be needed to replace the turn element, also a playerid would be a required attribute for all *event elements.

[yeti_c]

Dang Freestyle - always ruins it - but good solution for sure.

C.

[Jagganath]

Are any beta versions of these xml files accessible at this time?

[cspare]

Are any beta versions of these xml files accessible at this time?

I don't think so, but it would sure be a good idea to provide some beta versions. I'd also like to see some kind of schedule on when this feature is expected to be implemented.

[Viffer]

Hi experienced Conquerors!

There doesn't seem to be a way of showing your opponents unsuccessful attacks on the log.
If there is, please accept my apologies and I'll delete this thread.

If not, can I suggest this as an improvement to the site?
If people think that it would clutter the log too much, perhaps there could be a "detailed" button that is clickable, otherwise it doesn't show unsuccessful attacks.

What does everyone think?

[lancehoch]

Currently, there is no way to show unsuccessful attacks, however Game Log 2.0 is on the To-Do list (albeit, it has been there for a while) and will include a similar feature to this.

[Kotaro]

I dislike this idea. It's just not "ConquerClub" to me, being able to see what your opponents are doing all the time. This would also suck badly for fog, showing unsuccessful attacks. Just because you can't see what they failed to attack, doesn't mean they wouldn't know that you're weak somewhere, and use that as incentive to attack.

On top of that, how would this work? Would it go up everytime they fail a dice roll? What constitutes the failing of a dice roll? Would it be "Kotaro succesfully attacked lancehoch with 1 dice, but lost with another"?

It sounds like a lot of work for a, in my opinion, bad idea.

[lancehoch]

I am not 100% on this, but I think it would be:

TIMESTAMP lancehoch assaulted A12 from N1, N1 lost 5 men and A12 lost 8 men, lancehoch did not conquer it
TIMESTAMP lancehoch assaulted A12 from A11, A11 lost 0 men and A12 lost 1 men, lancehoch conquered it from Kotaro

TIMESTAMP lancehoch assaulted XXX from XXX, XXX lost XXX men and XXX lost XXX men, lancehoch did not conquer it
TIMESTAMP lancehoch assaulted XXX from XXX, XXX lost XXX men and XXX lost XXX men, lancehoch conquered it from Kotaro

And the lines are combined at the end of the turn if they are attacks from and to the same regions against the same player. Again, this is what I think, not 100%.

[barterer2002]

So Lance, as I understand what you're proposal is here, if I have a 50 vs. 30 battle and it takes 35 rolls for me to get the battle won and take the tert there will be 35 new lines in the log? (or if we're assuming that I stop when I get to 30 and he's at 8 it'll have 30 new lines?).

I kind of think there are game log issues already (which is why they seem to be deleted when they're archived) and this would just compound the issue.

[hecter]

So Lance, as I understand what you're proposal is here, if I have a 50 vs. 30 battle and it takes 35 rolls for me to get the battle won and take the tert there will be 35 new lines in the log? (or if we're assuming that I stop when I get to 30 and he's at 8 it'll have 30 new lines?).

No... He just explained what he thinks it'll look like...

[lancehoch]

No, I think it would/should combine any lines which have the same attack country, defend country, attacker, and defender. So either at the end of the turn or when the territory is conquered, it would merge all the attacks into one line and would not show the battle by battle results. At least that is how I would try to do it, but it seems like a ton of coding.

[hecter]

No, I think it would/should combine any lines which have the same attack country, defend country, attacker, and defender. So either at the end of the turn or when the territory is conquered, it would merge all the attacks into one line and would not show the battle by battle results. At least that is how I would try to do it, but it seems like a ton of coding.

Not really...

Code: Select all

for (;;)
{
     if (player ends attacks)
     {
           //print to log that attacks were made (if any)
           //reset variables
           break;
     }
     //player attacks territ 1 from territ 2
     if (new territ 2==old territ2)
     {
           //roll dice
           //add and subtract to variables based on dice
     }
     else
     {
           //print to log that attacks were made
           //reset variables
     }
}

[Night Strike]

I kind of think there are game log issues already (which is why they seem to be deleted when they're archived) and this would just compound the issue.

Which is exactly why this has taken so long to do. Lack doesn't have enough space yet to hold all those extended game logs.

[cspare]

I kind of think there are game log issues already (which is why they seem to be deleted when they're archived) and this would just compound the issue.

Which is exactly why this has taken so long to do. Lack doesn't have enough space yet to hold all those extended game logs.

I don't think space is an issue here, including unsuccessful attacks should hardly add any extra disk space. Most attacks will succeed anyways, and those that don't only has to store little data (i'd say: player1, player2, territory from, territory to, armies lost, armies won, date).
I think the problem here is that currently the log items are stored as text (if I remember correctly). So in fact I think Logs 2.0, which includes proper disk storage, would _reduce_ the disk space.

[Viffer]

okay, i'll wait with baited breath on this one then



to the person who wasn't in favour for fog games, perhaps they shouldn't be shown in fog games? that would work for me

[gundiesalvo]

Well, in fog games it's just a matter of fogging the ammount of armies lost on each side, and the identities of each side.
I hope this gets implemented. It would stop a lot of "oh, the dice are badly programmed" and "oh, the dice are against me" complaints, since people will start realizing they're not the only ones being screwed by the dice, and sometimes you'll be the one to defend extremely well from an overwhelming attack. Plus, it adds another similarity with the real life game, where you CAN see what everyone is doing because you're all sitting around a table (although more often than not you're standing and leaning over the board) watching everyone's turn and joking about their bad luck.