[Rules] Allow permabanned members to appeal

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Should members be able to appeal perma/6 month bans?

Yes
90
73%
No
25
20%
Idunno lol
8
7%
 
Total votes : 123

Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby Evil Semp on Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:46 pm

Gillipig wrote:
Evil Semp wrote:
Symmetry wrote:How about something as simple as a petition? If enough members of the community sign up for a player to be reinstated, then their case should be reconsidered as perhaps not being as detrimental to the community as previously thought?

Pretty easy to implement, no?


Define community.
1] The CC community-all members of CC.
2] The active CC community-those that are active on the scoreboard.
3] The forum community-Only those that post in the forums.
4] The vocal community-the posters who have X number of posts.

Where do you draw the line on how many members have to sign the petition?

Maybe a poll would be better? Create a thread in general discussion and ask people if they think a certain person should be given a chance to come back. If a clear majority says yes then he/she gets a second chance. If not he/she stays permabanned for life and the discussion is over, the community has spoken. Sounds fair?


I don't think there is any system that would be considered fair. The wording of the polls can influence responses one way or the other. I might be wrong but I think you can change the wording of a poll after there have been votes. If the members who think a ban should be overturned are out voted they can claim "All the mods voted against him" or it is unfair because "Your in his clan and you whole clan just voted for him." That has happened in the "Passion for Owen Shooter" thread.
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby Symmetry on Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:33 pm

Evil Semp wrote:
Symmetry wrote:How about something as simple as a petition? If enough members of the community sign up for a player to be reinstated, then their case should be reconsidered as perhaps not being as detrimental to the community as previously thought?

Pretty easy to implement, no?


Define community.
1] The CC community-all members of CC.
2] The active CC community-those that are active on the scoreboard.
3] The forum community-Only those that post in the forums.
4] The vocal community-the posters who have X number of posts.

Where do you draw the line on how many members have to sign the petition?


Fair points, all. I would simply say that if a petition got a decent number of votes the decision should be up for reconsideration. That doesn't mean automatic reinstatement once a certain level is reached. And certain voices would obviously have greater weight than others.

I'm not advocating a hard and fast system here, just a possibility for an appeal process that might be a little more satisfactory. Of course, people will still be pissed off, no matter what, and there will always be people annoyed that their favoured player or poster can't come back.

So no- I can't define community, and I wouldn't want to. Too many people enjoy different aspects of the site. But, just as a tentative theory, say 20 names got put on a list asking to reconsider a ban, would it be unreasonable to look at that list, judge the merits of who was on the list by any of the criteria you mentioned, and see if the person is considered valuable enough?
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby Army of GOD on Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:59 am

Anyway this can get stickied mods?
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby notyou2 on Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:04 pm

Perhaps Semp will be kind enough to sticky it...........
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby TheForgivenOne on Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:35 pm

notyou2 wrote:Perhaps Semp will be kind enough to sticky it...........


To my knowledge, he doesn't have forum powers in Suggestions.
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby notyou2 on Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:01 pm

Please sticky this post TFO, or did you already?
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby Army of GOD on Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:13 am

He did in his heart and that's what matters.
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby shanksdigs on Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:04 pm

Canada. 'nuff said.
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby Symmetry on Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:18 am

It's really a topic that's going to come up over and over in different forms, so I'd also suggest a sticky. Maybe not this thread in particular, but certainly a sticky on the subject so that people can see which arguments have been dismissed and which are still being discussed. And the reasons behind them.
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby Army of GOD on Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:56 am

Army of GOD wrote:Anyway this can get stickied mods?
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby nietzsche on Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:54 am

This is not gonna bring Kid_A back AoG, stop it.

He'll probably get banned again within 1 week anyway tho.
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby notyou2 on Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:51 am

shanksdigs wrote:Canada. 'nuff said.



What do you mean by this?
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby TheForgivenOne on Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:26 pm

notyou2 wrote:
shanksdigs wrote:Canada. 'nuff said.



What do you mean by this?


Probably something derogatory towards Canadians. :roll:
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby safariguy5 on Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:26 pm

I'd personally like DM back. If the max penalty has been reduced from Perma to 6 months, I think reconsideration of certain cases would be in order. Possibly something tied to input from the community. Now that we don't have Flame Wars anymore, the lines are more clearly drawn in my opinion.

Kind of like a reverse ex post facto system.
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby Symmetry on Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:00 pm

Yup- I like the idea of a petition system bringing a case to the attention of the mods, or perhaps to a sub-forum where it can be discussed. I don't see any major issue in discussing or dismissing cases on their own merits. We're pretty good at that already. See the cheating and abuse forum- plenty of sharp people around, plenty of discussion over the various merits of an argument. It's not perfect, but we can talk about why it's not perfect fairly reasonably.

So here's my tentative suggestion:

If a player can gather (let's say for the moment) 20 other posters for a petition to reinstate someone, then that poster's case should be up for re-examination. I would suggest either by a mod panel, or perhaps better, in a sub forum where people could raise objections before a final decision need be made.
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby Army of GOD on Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:53 pm

Symmetry wrote:Yup- I like the idea of a petition system bringing a case to the attention of the mods, or perhaps to a sub-forum where it can be discussed. I don't see any major issue in discussing or dismissing cases on their own merits. We're pretty good at that already. See the cheating and abuse forum- plenty of sharp people around, plenty of discussion over the various merits of an argument. It's not perfect, but we can talk about why it's not perfect fairly reasonably.

So here's my tentative suggestion:

If a player can gather (let's say for the moment) 20 other posters for a petition to reinstate someone, then that poster's case should be up for re-examination. I would suggest either by a mod panel, or perhaps better, in a sub forum where people could raise objections before a final decision need be made.


The problem with the petition is that the banned user might not even know the petition is in existence. That's why I thought it would be better if the banned user would send an e-ticket to show that he's interested in coming back, and then maybe we could have a petition to see if the users actually want him/her back.
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby safariguy5 on Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:58 pm

Army of GOD wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Yup- I like the idea of a petition system bringing a case to the attention of the mods, or perhaps to a sub-forum where it can be discussed. I don't see any major issue in discussing or dismissing cases on their own merits. We're pretty good at that already. See the cheating and abuse forum- plenty of sharp people around, plenty of discussion over the various merits of an argument. It's not perfect, but we can talk about why it's not perfect fairly reasonably.

So here's my tentative suggestion:

If a player can gather (let's say for the moment) 20 other posters for a petition to reinstate someone, then that poster's case should be up for re-examination. I would suggest either by a mod panel, or perhaps better, in a sub forum where people could raise objections before a final decision need be made.


The problem with the petition is that the banned user might not even know the petition is in existence. That's why I thought it would be better if the banned user would send an e-ticket to show that he's interested in coming back, and then maybe we could have a petition to see if the users actually want him/her back.

I'm fine with that idea. If the banned user files an e-ticket, have a referendum and have people argue it out.
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby Army of GOD on Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:21 am

A sub-forum in the C&A forum might be a good place for the petition/debates.
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:09 am

Just saw this thread, not reading the whole thing today.
The max punishment is now 3 months? I am not sure that is always appropriate, but if so, then I would say all prior punishments should simply be reduced retroactively.

That said, I think we DO need permabans for people who really and truly do nasty stuff. Someone intetionally posting links with viruses, the most severe multis cases (this will have to be defined, but I mean people who have a lot of multis).

Also, I think we need some way to categorize or quarantine people who show over and over they are just plain nasty individuals to play with. (a lot of them wind up being multis, but that is irrelevant). I know those are seperate topics.. sort of overlapping the farming issue in some ways.
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby Army of GOD on Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:52 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:Just saw this thread, not reading the whole thing today.
The max punishment is now 3 months? I am not sure that is always appropriate, but if so, then I would say all prior punishments should simply be reduced retroactively.

That said, I think we DO need permabans for people who really and truly do nasty stuff. Someone intetionally posting links with viruses, the most severe multis cases (this will have to be defined, but I mean people who have a lot of multis).

Also, I think we need some way to categorize or quarantine people who show over and over they are just plain nasty individuals to play with. (a lot of them wind up being multis, but that is irrelevant). I know those are seperate topics.. sort of overlapping the farming issue in some ways.


Multis technically are permabanned I think but that's only until they buy premium with their first account
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:12 pm

Army of GOD wrote:
Multis technically are permabanned I think but that's only until they buy premium with their first account

Unless its changed, they only get to rebuy one account. Then they keep getting banned.

However, I am not so concerned with the multis. The folks I want to see lasting permabanned are truly harmful folks. Multis are a pain, need to be curtailed, but not the same as putting viruses that can hurt people's computers or posting serious threats to people.
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby safariguy5 on Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:20 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:
Multis technically are permabanned I think but that's only until they buy premium with their first account

Unless its changed, they only get to rebuy one account. Then they keep getting banned.

However, I am not so concerned with the multis. The folks I want to see lasting permabanned are truly harmful folks. Multis are a pain, need to be curtailed, but not the same as putting viruses that can hurt people's computers or posting serious threats to people.

I don't think it's necessarily carte blanche to allow everyone back. Appeals process would definitely require a good deal of community support to even be considered, and ultimate say still goes to the admins. I think having that option open is nice, and I think the standards of the community have changed as the site has evolved.
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby Symmetry on Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:26 pm

safariguy5 wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:
Multis technically are permabanned I think but that's only until they buy premium with their first account

Unless its changed, they only get to rebuy one account. Then they keep getting banned.

However, I am not so concerned with the multis. The folks I want to see lasting permabanned are truly harmful folks. Multis are a pain, need to be curtailed, but not the same as putting viruses that can hurt people's computers or posting serious threats to people.

I don't think it's necessarily carte blanche to allow everyone back. Appeals process would definitely require a good deal of community support to even be considered, and ultimate say still goes to the admins. I think having that option open is nice, and I think the standards of the community have changed as the site has evolved.


If it was added as a sub forum of cheating and abuse I think a lot of the people who check that thread and investigate claims would be around to check on the validity of the petitions once they reached quorum and were up for debate.
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby PLAYER57832 on Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:15 pm

An appeal seems reasonable.
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Re: Allow permabanned/6 month ban members to appeal

Postby Army of GOD on Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:56 pm

Mods, have any admins taken notice of this thread/idea yet?
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