[Site] Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to Whatever

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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby jricart on Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:10 pm

They look good to me.
Its amazing how long this took to get implemented!

Good job guys!

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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:35 pm

HighlanderAttack wrote:The only thing is some people think it skews the medal table too much, but they are virtual medals so what is the big deal. Unfortunately because I stand to gain the most from a change like that-some will say I am biased toward a change like that. Reality is I have always wanted it like this-even when I was just starting off in the tourney world.

That's exactly the problem. If you can continue getting more medals just for doing more of the same, it basically becomes a type of farming. A medal system is supposed to reward you for stretching yourself in new directions and looking for new challenges. Running your first tournament is a big milestone, running your 291st is not.

Ideally a medal system should be logarithmic. If you get a medal for running your first tournament, it should take ten tournaments to get your second, and a hundred to get your third. and a thousand to get your fourth. (The multiplier doesn't have to be 10; if an activity is inherently more difficult it can have a smaller multiplier.) That's approximately the way the gameplay medals go: it's easy to get bronze, a little harder to get silver, and much harder to get gold.
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby chapcrap on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:46 am

Dukasaur wrote:
HighlanderAttack wrote:The only thing is some people think it skews the medal table too much, but they are virtual medals so what is the big deal. Unfortunately because I stand to gain the most from a change like that-some will say I am biased toward a change like that. Reality is I have always wanted it like this-even when I was just starting off in the tourney world.

That's exactly the problem. If you can continue getting more medals just for doing more of the same, it basically becomes a type of farming. A medal system is supposed to reward you for stretching yourself in new directions and looking for new challenges. Running your first tournament is a big milestone, running your 291st is not.

Ideally a medal system should be logarithmic. If you get a medal for running your first tournament, it should take ten tournaments to get your second, and a hundred to get your third. and a thousand to get your fourth. (The multiplier doesn't have to be 10; if an activity is inherently more difficult it can have a smaller multiplier.) That's approximately the way the gameplay medals go: it's easy to get bronze, a little harder to get silver, and much harder to get gold.

Just so we're clear, he's won 291. He hasn't quite ran 291 yet.

I do agree with Duka. I love medals a lot, but a cap is good because it makes more types of medals mean more, IMO.
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby Gillipig on Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:31 am

cairnswk wrote:
Gillipig wrote:...
Bronze, silver, gold, platinum for all types of medals is probably the best solution. As it deals with the inevitable inflation of some types of medals. Different standards could be set for different types of medals.

I'd be quite happy to have this, as long as it provides functionality, but it still doesn't solve the numeric issue on the medals.

It would actually. Just like there's no numerals on the terminator medal or the fog of war medal, there would be no numerals on the special achievement/contribution medals. After having won a certain number of tournaments, you would be awarded with bronze, silver, gold and platinum, same for clans and every other medal currently displayed with roman numerals. That's the suggestion I was thinking of.
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby Qwert on Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:59 am

so these its new system of solve problems? with less effort to create something? Anyone who ahve over 30 medals will need to create hes own medals in signature(like cairnswk and highlanderattack).

like i say in page 4

Few question are arise
1.Are these usefull
2.Are these possible to implement?
3.What lvl of difficulty in implementation of these suggestion ?
4.How long these need to be implemented?
-------------------------------------------------------
Im here 6 years and i can not count how many times i heard from people who understand coding say " its easy to implement", and after that suggestion drop in oblivion, siting for infinitive time .
Now i hope that el jefe will not work like lackattack,and start avoiding suggestion forum.
Its important that we know--all these above, otherwise all these posting in suggestion forum, its pure waste of time.
When we come on these stage when these 4 question can answer El jefe, and start implement suggestion in appropriate time, then we can say that "Revolution Begun" have some practical meaning,and not to be some political phrase to sound great and nothing else.
And these its not only for these suggestion,these its for all sugestion who sit infinitive time here.


its will be great if you put a vote poll, so that community give hes vote ,between Arabic and Romans numbers, now its look that our opinion and suggestions are not valid, and that again mods suggestion will be implemented, even when Arabic also possible to be implemented.
Why you even bother to ask for community opinion,when you work on your way? These its what i don't understand.
Also will be pointless to open new topic and suggest change Romans with Arabic numbers, because like its look these will be very fast rejected, even if these possible.
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby chapcrap on Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:39 pm

There isn't a need for Arabic numbers with this update. So, why change the current system?
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby Gillipig on Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:09 pm

chapcrap wrote:There isn't a need for Arabic numbers with this update. So, why change the current system?

As far as I know the suggestion that has been approved, is the one where roman numerals will end at "L" or "50", so roman numerals are staying, unfortunately.
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby HighlanderAttack on Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:33 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
HighlanderAttack wrote:The only thing is some people think it skews the medal table too much, but they are virtual medals so what is the big deal. Unfortunately because I stand to gain the most from a change like that-some will say I am biased toward a change like that. Reality is I have always wanted it like this-even when I was just starting off in the tourney world.

That's exactly the problem. If you can continue getting more medals just for doing more of the same, it basically becomes a type of farming. A medal system is supposed to reward you for stretching yourself in new directions and looking for new challenges. Running your first tournament is a big milestone, running your 291st is not.

Ideally a medal system should be logarithmic. If you get a medal for running your first tournament, it should take ten tournaments to get your second, and a hundred to get your third. and a thousand to get your fourth. (The multipliler doesn't have to be 10; if an activity is inherently more difficult it can have a smaller multiplier.) That's approximately the way the gameplay medals go: it's easy to get bronze, a little harder to get silver, and much harder to get gold.


That is all fine and dandy, then why a CAP--it should just be bronze, silver, gold, and maybe further it out. It makes no sense you can win 30 medals and then you can't win any more when the majority of the medals are bronze, silver, gold. Add Platinum and Diamond and make them all the same. We already know that it is much harder to get a medal for some things than other things. Someone can spend 30 minutes of their time running a tourney while someone can spend 100 hours running another tourney an it gets the same medal or in the case of the CAP neither get anything. Their is no easy way to measure the importance of each medal as everyone thinks different anyway, I would be glad to lose my 30 count caps for a more uniform system of bronze, silver, gold, Platinum and Diamond. At least to me it makes more sense than a CAP.
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby Qwert on Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:33 pm

Gillipig wrote:
chapcrap wrote:There isn't a need for Arabic numbers with this update. So, why change the current system?

As far as I know the suggestion that has been approved, is the one where roman numerals will end at "L" or "50", so roman numerals are staying, unfortunately.

unfortunately,when mods suggest something ,then these its sealed for any other change. These its not any improvement at all.
Now you need to wait another 3-4 years, so that some new mods finally accept logical solution, who will fix these for very long time.
I dont know why i even waste time in these topic?
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby HighlanderAttack on Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:52 pm

I think they should come up with three ideas and have the community vote on it--that makes the most sense to me
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby chapcrap on Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:08 pm

qwert wrote:
Gillipig wrote:
chapcrap wrote:There isn't a need for Arabic numbers with this update. So, why change the current system?

As far as I know the suggestion that has been approved, is the one where roman numerals will end at "L" or "50", so roman numerals are staying, unfortunately.

unfortunately,when mods suggest something ,then these its sealed for any other change. These its not any improvement at all.
Now you need to wait another 3-4 years, so that some new mods finally accept logical solution, who will fix these for very long time.
I dont know why i even waste time in these topic?

qwert, try not to be so negative.

Why is there a need for Arabic numbers if the only medals will be given out at certain leveled intervals? Roman numerals work fine for this. It's not logical to change something that is already working. So, instead of changing a lot of images already in place and adding a LOT of images and dealing with medal inflation, a few images will just be added.
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:31 am

qwert wrote:
Gillipig wrote:
chapcrap wrote:There isn't a need for Arabic numbers with this update. So, why change the current system?

As far as I know the suggestion that has been approved, is the one where roman numerals will end at "L" or "50", so roman numerals are staying, unfortunately.

unfortunately,when mods suggest something ,then these its sealed for any other change. These its not any improvement at all.
Now you need to wait another 3-4 years, so that some new mods finally accept logical solution, who will fix these for very long time.
I dont know why i even waste time in these topic?


This suggestion is only getting pushed through because of community support -- we probably wouldn't have looked at it if not for this thread. However, sometimes we have to go a slightly different route from the specific alternative the community requests, but that's usually for technical reasons. It's not that we don't value your input!
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby jricart on Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:29 pm

I have to agree with qwert on this. Its so disappointing at this point that no solution has been implemented and the mods/admins are walking around the problem. Be honest and tell us if you guys are not able to make a change on this, or if there is a programming limitation for a solution to be implemented.

I think is Conquer Club obligation to hand out as many medals as a player deserve. If HA wants to keep running tournaments, and winning more as well, he deserve every single medal he earned.

Do you think the banks are going to send a letter to Mr. Slim, Mr. Gates or Mr. Buffett saying that: "Sorry Mr. but our bank system can handle more digits on your account. Please stop making more money!" Thats bullshit guys!

I know that there are going to be more replies and pages added to this thread before this site commit and implement a solution for this problem.

My two cents, sorry.

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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby agentcom on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:01 pm

All the medals have some sort of "cap." With the standard medals, they are capped at 3: Bronze, silver, gold. After that you just have to play standard games (or whatever) for fun, points, prestige, clan wins, etc. That is, something other than medals. The same goes for tournaments: after you've won 30 you can still enter more tournaments, but you don't also get the medal out of it. You can continue to do it to move up the Hall of Fame or for fun or whatever reason, but medals won't really be your goal.

Perhaps if we could start the whole thing from scratch, we would come up with different limits, but the system isn't that broken right now. To me this is a minor change that will award a few more medals to those that have gone so far above and beyond the current cap of 30 that they almost demand recognition. I don't think that 31 achievements demands recognition in this same way.

So, keeping caps/limits on the medals is in keeping with how CC issues medals generally.
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby jricart on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:43 pm

So whats the point then on changing the cap if in the future we will have the same discussion?

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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby greenoaks on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:07 pm

agentcom wrote:All the medals have some sort of "cap." With the standard medals, they are capped at 3: Bronze, silver, gold. After that you just have to play standard games (or whatever) for fun, points, prestige, clan wins, etc. That is, something other than medals. The same goes for tournaments: after you've won 30 you can still enter more tournaments, but you don't also get the medal out of it. You can continue to do it to move up the Hall of Fame or for fun or whatever reason, but medals won't really be your goal.

that is well put =D>

agentcom wrote:To me this is a minor change that will award a few more medals to those that have gone so far above and beyond the current cap of 30 that they almost demand recognition.

i don't know anyone who would meet this criteria
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby HighlanderAttack on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:23 pm

The cap of thirty is because of Roman Numerals, not because it was deemed a worthy achievement.
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby Gillipig on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:24 pm

jricart wrote:So whats the point then on changing the cap if in the future we will have the same discussion?

JRT

That's the thing, There is no point with this suggestion. If we change to Arabic numerals we won't need to deal with this again. And if we change to a Bronze, Siliver, Gold, system, we also won't need to deal with this again. But just sticking with roman numerals won't solve anything, and we'll soon have this discussion again.
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby greenoaks on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:47 pm

Gillipig wrote:
jricart wrote:So whats the point then on changing the cap if in the future we will have the same discussion?

JRT

That's the thing, There is no point with this suggestion. If we change to Arabic numerals we won't need to deal with this again. And if we change to a Bronze, Siliver, Gold, system, we also won't need to deal with this again. But just sticking with roman numerals won't solve anything, and we'll soon have this discussion again.
We're sweeping dust under the mat.

if we change to Bronze, Silver, Gold we WILL have this discussion again.

we are already having this discussion on that format in another thread, just waiting for admin to make a decision on it. [-o<
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby Qwert on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:39 pm

here two examples.
in first you have roman numeral, who unfortunately only count to 30, but in second you can see that Arabic numeral can count up to 999.
When we look on Tournament hall of fame, most Organized Tournament have merch 313- 296 Tournaments, these mean if he want to reach 999 he need to next 9 years create 6,5 tournaments each month. Now in Winner hall of fame Highlander attack have most wins 291-if you look when he join CC, he each month win 5,38 tournaments. In these tempo, he need another 11 years to reach 999 wining tournaments. So in a very long run, you will solve these , only need to change roman with Arabic.
And everybody happy.Case close.

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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby chapcrap on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:49 pm

qwert wrote:here two examples.
in first you have roman numeral, who unfortunately only count to 30, but in second you can see that Arabic numeral can count up to 999.
When we look on Tournament hall of fame, most Organized Tournament have merch 313- 296 Tournaments, these mean if he want to reach 999 he need to next 9 years create 6,5 tournaments each month. Now in Winner hall of fame Highlander attack have most wins 291-if you look when he join CC, he each month win 5,38 tournaments. In these tempo, he need another 11 years to reach 999 wining tournaments. So in a very long run, you will solve these , only need to change roman with Arabic.
And everybody happy.Case close.

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Yes, that works IF we want to have no cap and treat all medals equally.

However, this is to try and raise the cap, not remove it. And we don't want to dilute the medal pool so much. So, again, there is no need to change to Arabic because we aren't using the medal system that you are talking about.
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby Dukasaur on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:11 pm

qwert wrote:here two examples.
in first you have roman numeral, who unfortunately only count to 30, but in second you can see that Arabic numeral can count up to 999.
When we look on Tournament hall of fame, most Organized Tournament have merch 313- 296 Tournaments, these mean if he want to reach 999 he need to next 9 years create 6,5 tournaments each month. Now in Winner hall of fame Highlander attack have most wins 291-if you look when he join CC, he each month win 5,38 tournaments. In these tempo, he need another 11 years to reach 999 wining tournaments. So in a very long run, you will solve these , only need to change roman with Arabic.
And everybody happy.Case close.

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No, everybody NOT happy. Get it through your head that we do not want people to get 999 medals for doing the same thing over and over again like robots. Medals are supposed to be for stretching yourself in NEW directions, for trying NEW accomplishments, for setting HIGHER goals.

Cranking out medals ad infinitum is just devaluing the currency. What we are talking about is a REASONABLE increase in the medal cap, not 999.
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby Qwert on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:40 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
qwert wrote:here two examples.
in first you have roman numeral, who unfortunately only count to 30, but in second you can see that Arabic numeral can count up to 999.
When we look on Tournament hall of fame, most Organized Tournament have merch 313- 296 Tournaments, these mean if he want to reach 999 he need to next 9 years create 6,5 tournaments each month. Now in Winner hall of fame Highlander attack have most wins 291-if you look when he join CC, he each month win 5,38 tournaments. In these tempo, he need another 11 years to reach 999 wining tournaments. So in a very long run, you will solve these , only need to change roman with Arabic.
And everybody happy.Case close.

Image

No, everybody NOT happy. Get it through your head that we do not want people to get 999 medals for doing the same thing over and over again like robots. Medals are supposed to be for stretching yourself in NEW directions, for trying NEW accomplishments, for setting HIGHER goals.

Cranking out medals ad infinitum is just devaluing the currency. What we are talking about is a REASONABLE increase in the medal cap, not 999.

What wrong with you? i give mine suggestion and opinion, are these forbidden? Like i say earlier, its look that we have two opposite side here-Mods and Community, Mods want one thing and community want second thing, Now its look that new solution will be to open completely new suggestion topic with new suggestion, because you are not open for any other opinions.
But then we will have problem, because you oppose any other opinion ,no mater if these possible or not .
People need to get what they want, if someone want to win tournament like Robot, over and over again( like highlander), maybe he enjoy in these?
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby greenoaks on Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:28 pm

all of the community does not support your suggestion qwert.

i don't and i am someone who would benefit greatly from your sug.
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Re: Raise Achievement Medal Cap from 30 to whatever

Postby agentcom on Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:52 am

HighlanderAttack wrote:The cap of thirty is because of Roman Numerals, not because it was deemed a worthy achievement.


And maybe we should consider ourselves lucky that it was set up this way. I like that it was capped out regardless of the initial reason. I think it's a good system to keep the caps in place, but I am in favor of loosening them a bit. Hence my support of some form of this suggestion.

jricart wrote:So whats the point then on changing the cap if in the future we will have the same discussion?

JRT


We don't have to have the same discussion in the future. We might, we might not. If people start greatly exceeding the new recognition levels then this may come up again.

Gillipig wrote:
jricart wrote:So whats the point then on changing the cap if in the future we will have the same discussion?

JRT

That's the thing, There is no point with this suggestion. If we change to Arabic numerals we won't need to deal with this again. And if we change to a Bronze, Siliver, Gold, system, we also won't need to deal with this again. But just sticking with roman numerals won't solve anything, and we'll soon have this discussion again.
We're sweeping dust under the mat.


Right now the current medal leader has "only" 147 medals. Some people want to be able to collect a virtually unlimited number of medals from certain activities. If we changed this to Arabic numerals, some people would all of a sudden have literally hundreds more medals than they currently have. There is something to be said for making conservative changes especially to one of the main avenues of recognition that this site has. If, on the other hand, we just did gold, silver, and bronze, those same people would have, in many cases, dozens less medals than they have now.

I don't understand why it seems to some people like it's such a crazy idea to allow for a modest increase in medals to recognize some folks for their contributions and achievements on this site.

qwert wrote:What wrong with you? i give mine suggestion and opinion, are these forbidden? Like i say earlier, its look that we have two opposite side here-Mods and Community, Mods want one thing and community want second thing, Now its look that new solution will be to open completely new suggestion topic with new suggestion, because you are not open for any other opinions.
But then we will have problem, because you oppose any other opinion ,no mater if these possible or not .
People need to get what they want, if someone want to win tournament like Robot, over and over again( like highlander), maybe he enjoy in these?


The Mods are part of the community and act as representatives of the community to the Admin as much as we act as representatives of the Admin to the users. Many of us are fairly active on the forum, in games, in tournaments, in clans, and in the foundry. While doing all that, we try (and sometimes can't help but) to get a feel for what the community wants. At the same time, we look at what can be done, talk the the Admins, and see which direction that they want to go. It's always a compromise of what can be done and what people want to be done given limited resources (in time, money, server space, etc.).

You're always welcome to share your opinion, but characterizing this as Mods v. Community is downright disingenuous.
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