[XML] infected neutrals

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Re: infected neutrals

Postby agentcom on Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:36 am

00iCon wrote:How do people find this stuff and dig it up?


The stuff on the one, single page of submitted suggestions? Not with too much difficulty, I would hope.
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Re: infected neutrals

Postby vrex on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:18 pm

Due to the announcement today. I see a change in leadership has been effected. (or is it affected?) :?

Since he has said to point out things that players want done... I'm going to point out this 8-) ... I want it done! :lol:

It is probably just me, and i'm aware that other things older than this in this 'submitted suggestions' thread might take priority but i figure i might try anyway to see what the new webmaster has to say about this being moved to the next stage after 'last call' :mrgreen:

Now after i have spent my new hopes for this site up, ill go back to watching to see if anything really does change, i'll be watching new webmaster... and all the other new guys on the team... :twisted:
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Re: [GP/UI] infected neutrals

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:24 pm

Thought it be worth bumping this since the new admin seems to be paying attention to the submitted suggestions forum :)
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Re: [GP/UI] infected neutrals

Postby yeti_c on Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:54 pm

This suggestion is still the best suggestion that hasn't been realised on this site.

C.
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Re: [GP/UI] infected neutrals

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:18 pm

yeti_c wrote:This suggestion is still the best suggestion that hasn't been realised on this site.

C.


I have growing, albeit minor, hopes that it will actually get implemented one day. I don't see it happening on a priority basis, especially since I could see it taking a fair bit of coding to do, but it's a good suggestion and worth the time once some of the more important updates are completed.
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Re: [GP/UI] infected neutrals

Postby SuicidalSnowman on Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:33 pm

We finally got Adjacent Attacks in...

This is such a great option for games... such a shame we don't have it.
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Re: [GP/UI] infected neutrals

Postby OliverFA on Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:56 pm

yeti_c wrote:This suggestion is still the best suggestion that hasn't been realised on this site.

C.


I do agree. This suggestion opens a completely new range of possibilities.

It's a real pitty that after all those years this suggestion has not been implemented. IMHO CC would really benefit from those suggestions. The ones that add more gameplay deep and strategy layers. This is not "Semi-escalating spoils with half flat rate". This is not a "let's invent a new setting just to make things a little different". This is new, completely fresh (even after all those years) and something that would keep games very very interesting.

Suddenly deadbetting players become something a lot more interesting. Instead of that big stack of 50 troops that will stay on the board forever now you have 50 angry neutrals that will come after you. Bombarding territories does not just remove the player from that territory, it also creates a potential danger that should be addressed, and thus additional trouble. And what to say about Conquest maps, or maps with many neutrals? Oasis becomes a "Survive against the desert hordes" game. Prison Riot has the additional issue of dealing with all the neutral guards on the first turns.

In one sentence, this setting would spice up games.
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Re: [XML] infected neutrals

Postby OliverFA on Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:36 pm

Just wanted to say I still believe this suggestion to be AWESOME :)
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Re: [XML] infected neutrals

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:12 pm

OliverFA wrote:Just wanted to say I still believe this suggestion to be AWESOME :)


So do I and hope to see it implemented one day :)
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Re: [XML] infected neutrals

Postby agentcom on Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:59 pm

Just re-read the OP. There are some neutral heavy maps that I'm not sure you'd ever be able to play this with. For example on Feudal Epic, you'd have a hell of a time getting out of your base. If you did make it to the neutral 10, I'm not sure how much farther you would get. I don't think this would work for conquest maps, IOW.

Also whoever goes at the end of the round has a pretty big advantage. That player can move troops around to avoid a neutral attack. Other players wouldn't really have that option.

I like the idea, but I think it needs to be thought out better. Perhaps it's something that could be put into the XML instead and be made an option for mapmakers.
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Re: [XML] infected neutrals

Postby OliverFA on Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:49 am

Actually, I would love to play this in Feudal Epic. An important part of the strategy would be to keep neutrals under 4 so they don't attack but at the same time block the other neutrals behind them, and then bombard those 10s to reduce their numbers before attacking them.

During first turn neutrals would incubate, so their number wouldn't grow. The second turn their numbers would grow, but as they would be 3s they would not attack yet. That gives enough time to prepare to bring them down. And as I said, bombard the 10s before taking down the neutrals blocking them.

Villages and their surrounding areas would be different, as they would have high numbers by the time they are reached, but by that time players would be strong enough to fight those angry neutrals.

Yes, it would be long before "human" players clash, but that would be the whole purpose of a conquest map with infected neutrals. In fact, it would feel even more like conquest, as the civilized players would have to grow their civilizations before worrying about each other.
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Re: [XML] infected neutrals

Postby agentcom on Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:59 am

OliverFA wrote:Actually, I would love to play this in Feudal Epic. An important part of the strategy would be to keep neutrals under 4 so they don't attack but at the same time block the other neutrals behind them, and then bombard those 10s to reduce their numbers before attacking them.

During first turn neutrals would incubate, so their number wouldn't grow. The second turn their numbers would grow, but as they would be 3s they would not attack yet. That gives enough time to prepare to bring them down. And as I said, bombard the 10s before taking down the neutrals blocking them.

Villages and their surrounding areas would be different, as they would have high numbers by the time they are reached, but by that time players would be strong enough to fight those angry neutrals.

Yes, it would be long before "human" players clash, but that would be the whole purpose of a conquest map with infected neutrals. In fact, it would feel even more like conquest, as the civilized players would have to grow their civilizations before worrying about each other.


I think you'd better check your math on this one. Feudal Epic has 128 territs, of which a vast majority start neutral. Lets try to make this as advantageous to the humans as possible and assume an 8 player game in order to maximize the basic (+3) deployment. At the beginning of the game, the humans can put a total of 64 troops on the map. The next turn, some will still only get 8, most will get 9, and some will get 10. The neutrals are still outdeploying the humans. From there the situation worsens, as some players can't beat back the wave of neutrals, and some of them will get killed by neutrals, especially on bases like ID, RoM, and GK.

Only a handful of humans will be able to take the territs around their bases, but they need 2 of these to get a +1 and they will have to protect them from the growing amounts of other neutrals, including the neutral that starts at 10. That neutral is particularly problematic on some bases, since so many of the territs border it and controlling that 10 would be essential to get the bonuses needed to keep beating back the neutrals.

If anyone did make it to the 10, they would probably have to collect their force together and attack in a straight line toward other castles, allowing the neutrals to swallow up their reinforcement chain and having to dedicate at least some of their drop to keeping the gate to their castle safe.

Maybe on escalating you could reach the point where humans outdeploy the relevant neutrals. (The humans don't need to outdeploy all neutrals because some of them like Tri 5 may never be touched.) But it's going to be a very long and painful road to get to this point. If the game is trench, I'm not sure it's even possible. If it's not escalating, I'm not sure that's possible.

You might end up with a game where the last player standing becomes the victor. That player might just stay on his castle beating back the neutrals there, and depending on his dice and drop the first couple turns to put him in a position to do this.
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Re: [XML] infected neutrals

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:12 am

I spoke to a couple of people over this idea, and the one thing that both have said, and I am starting to agree with them would be to have this as an xml feature on future maps. So it would get used only if a map maker wanted it in some regions.

The reasoning for this is that it would have to get blocked for a lot of existing maps. Both feudal maps would become unplayable. The idea to keep neutrals under 3 to stop the attacks is pointless. Most maps have neutrals automatically set at 3 and others have them set a lot higher for GP reasons. Killer neutrals, win conditions, losing conditions would have to become exempt from this as well. Going over a neutral stack of 10 or anywhere near to it would end up becoming problematic. No one would go there and waste troops and maps with set neutrals would have to be looked at again to make sure players start evenly.

Having this as an xml feature, you can get maps dedicated for this idea. Themed maps would be made glorious with this, but some maps would become unplayable. I know this is the same old excuse of what about the maps, but that is what we do here and that has to be the priority with this. You cannot make maps unplayable just to please a few.
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Re: [XML] infected neutrals

Postby spiesr on Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:56 pm

agentcom wrote:
show
Well agentcom, I certainly agree with your assessment (and go farther to say that this is a setting that I would likely never want to use on any map) but at least some of the people who supported this suggestion seem to be aware that on some maps the game would consist entirely of players trying to survive the neutrals the longest, never coming into contact with each other. While I think it is a bad idea some people seem to want it like that nonetheless. Is there anything you can think of that might convince them otherwise?
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Re: [XML] infected neutrals

Postby chapcrap on Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:22 pm

Is this an XML change or a new game type? The XML tag confuses me, because I feel like this is a game option.

It can be limited to which maps it can be used on, like manual is.
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