Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby cookie0117 on Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:05 pm

Put the key board down, go take a walk and cool down.

Then think about the fact that ratings are just tags you click, they are neither accurate or sometimes even appropiate. If someone clicks secret diplomacy but does not report anything, then its probably not secret diplomacy. Even then its a half assed accusation and that does not prove guilt.

The person received the punishment that everyone else would have received. As you were told if you think punishment is too weak, go to suggestions and sensibly and calmly suggest harsher punishments.

Cry and getting personal with people will lose you friends and is just childish. So take a chill pill and give the mods a break, they work to a set of rules on these cases, and we all know how upset people get when someone breaks the rules!!
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby visgoths on Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:17 pm

I am new to the enforcement process and I didn't realize there were set guidelines. Thanks for the clarification.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby deathcomesrippin on Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:55 pm

visgoths wrote:I was responding to "deathcomerippin" post suggesting I was going out of my way to report violators. I don't know why he is a cheating and abuse moderator if he considers my report "trolling"? How is reporting someone cheating in a game I am playing who has sent me a SD Private message "trolling".

If he can't be bothered to take a clear violation seriously and he is so busy with his day job, why is he a volunteer?


The C&A forum is manned by volunteers and relies upon the community to report issues to us. We are all players as well as volunteers with the exception of King A, who has duties outside of just monitoring the C&A forum. That is our job. What we do not do is spend our whole days just trolling around looking for people who break the rules and punishing them.



My comment was that WE do not go out of our way to find transgressors. In no way did I say you troll, maybe I should have emphasised the "we". If he cheated before, which you clearly believe, then the onus is not on us to attempt to catch past transgressions that go unreported. If you think I, or anyone, is going to pour over each game any one player may have played and look for possible SD in them, just because he did it this time, you are mistaken. If someone else comes forth, then he will be judged according to that case. Calm down, and read things for what they are. You weren't mentioned at all. If I felt you were trolling, I would have posted "visigoths, stop trolling" and been done with it. For the record, this was not my case, KA handled it. I just wanted to set you straight on the fact that this is the way it is done. Either deal with it or don't, but stop reading into things that aren't there.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby visgoths on Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:48 pm

Gosh, Cookie, we all aspire to be the cool headed gamer that you are....you're advice, Yoda-like. Do you have anymore great nuggets of advice? heh heh
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby Extreme Ways on Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:52 pm

visgoths wrote:Gosh, Cookie, we all aspire to be the cool headed gamer that you are....you're advice, Yoda-like. Do you have anymore great nuggets of advice? heh heh

Was Yoda right?
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby visgoths on Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:54 pm

If you think cheating is no biggie - yeah, I guess so...
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby Night Strike on Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:56 pm

visgoths wrote:If you think cheating is no biggie - yeah, I guess so...


No one in this thread thinks cheating "is no biggie". That's why warnings and then other punishments are handed out.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby visgoths on Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:05 pm

"chill out", " take a deep breath" - I interpret those comments to reflect a sense that cheating is no big deal. We obviously differ on this translation if you are speaking for everyone except me in this thread. In most games when you are caught cheating you are disqualified so forgive me if my posts reflected my surprise that the offender was left off with just a warning. I understand now that there is a process and warnings are given for first time offenders. The people on the thread who feel differently are welcome to their opinions but shouldn't criticize or tell me to chill. We obviously have a different idea about what rules mean. I think the rules are soft on cheaters.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:10 pm

He's telling you to "chill out" because of the way you are acting, not bc cheating is no big deal.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:14 pm

Also, I noticed you were given all 1 star ratings from DBo and he says you were clueless.
By your own logic, one would assume that you are clueless, have a bad attitude, have poor gameplay, and your play is unfair.

The guy was warned, if he does it again he is punished further, following the guidelines.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby visgoths on Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:18 pm

I reported a cheater and he was found guilty due to overwhelming evidence to support this claim. The moderators gave him a warning and then proceeded to attack the person who made the claim. I have to say BGtheBrain I am a little disappointed that as a cheating/abuse moderator you are making arguments to support Peruvian Boatman. Also, one flaw with your logic - whether I am clueless is more a matter of subjective opinion than fact. Additionally, the person that posted that I was clueless lost so it made no sense. Peruvian Boatman has been proven to cheat, so claims in his ratings that suggest he was perpetrating secret diplomacy carry greater weight.

how have I acted? I have made a very rationale argument for why I think the current enforcement is weak. I think what is more evident is that the moderators don't like the criticism and other contributors who criticize my reaction to the verdict have a permissive attitude towards cheating. You can characterize me anyway you want but the record stands. Peruvian Boatman cheated.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:25 pm

visgoths wrote:I reported a cheater and he was found guilty due to overwhelming evidence to support this claim. The moderators gave him a warning and then proceeded to attack the person who made the claim.

False. Multiple people (Mods and not mods) have explained the process to you. Clarifying a situation is not attacking you.

visgoths wrote:I have to say BGtheBrain I am a little disappointed that as a cheating/abuse moderator you are making arguments to support Peruvian Boatman.

I havent defended him, I am saying you have ZERO evidence he has committed SD more than once.

visgoths wrote:Also, one flaw with your logic - whether I am clueless is more a matter of subjective opinion than fact. Additionally, the person that posted that I was clueless lost so it made no sense.

Thats the whole point..... ratings are subjective opinion. Like when you say, "Look at his ratings, hes a cheater"

visgoths wrote:Peruvian Boatman has been proven to cheat, so claims in his ratings that suggest he was perpetrating secret diplomacy carry greater weight.

So if I get one speeding ticket, I must always speed?

visgoths wrote:how have I acted?

Rude, whiny, I guess the correct word would be "clueless"
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby visgoths on Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:58 pm

and your characterizing me as clueless is another one of your clarifications, not attacking, right? Again, as a moderator I would think you would hold yourself to a higher standard and stay to the merits of your argument instead of denigrating a person that reported cheating.

Again, I reported a cheater and as a moderator you are saying I am a whiner and clueless. You sure you're qualified to be a moderator of cheating and abuse forum? The only thing that is certain in this thread is what was proven about Peruvian Boatman; that he cheated.

if you anyone has taken an exception to my criticism of the rules - why don't you ALL chill out.

I never said that Peruvian Boatman ratings proved he was a cheater. My point was that it would be ignorant to think they have no bearing on one's reputation. Considering that he was caught cheating, it is no leap to believe I that he has done this before and therefore the moderators should take a closer look at his ratings. Otherwise, what is the purpose of the ratings - that is what they are there for, no?
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby SirSebstar on Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:39 pm

no..
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby Barney Rubble on Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:53 pm

Maybe just leave then ?? People that try to help you and explain things to you are Jerks ,... etc.. KA is unqualified ,The mods are to soft ,Now BG is picking on you instead of what Banning the Peruvian for life or what ??? .Want CC to mail you a piece of his ass?? Rules are in place they were followed Thats it end of story ....BG is probably closer to the mark with his commenting on whining.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby deathcomesrippin on Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:24 pm

Barney Rubble wrote:Maybe just leave then ?? People that try to help you and explain things to you are Jerks ,... etc.. KA is unqualified ,The mods are to soft ,Now BG is picking on you instead of what Banning the Peruvian for life or what ??? .Want CC to mail you a piece of his ass?? Rules are in place they were followed Thats it end of story ....BG is probably closer to the mark with his commenting on whining.



I don't normally do this but.....

+1
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby Evil Semp on Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:25 pm

So that's where I left my soap box.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby eddie2 on Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:44 pm

Evil Semp wrote:So that's where I left my soap box.


lol as long as you didnt bend over to pick it up evil.....
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby eddie2 on Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:59 pm

well visgoths what can i say i just read the game chat of the game in ?..

no. 1
revealing of positions and troup count in a fog game is seriously frowned upon, some also class it as cheating....
Game 10582259
2012-03-02 19:14:20 - visgoths: im afraid it might be too late.
2012-03-03 23:46:12 - visgoths: Green, pink has 3 on bitlis and 6 on erzurum.

2012-03-06 23:51:07 - visgoths: alright, I landed on British Kuwait. Hope I can hold it. he's got 30 on jersualem


no. 2
mo since no formal truce was made in game chat by you and the player in ? you could say it looks like you were involved in s/d.. it even looks like the 2 of you could of attacked what was said in the pm, but since fog that wont be seen till end of game. and by your reaction i think the mods should do to you as you want done to others if the log shows that attack.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby jefjef on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:57 pm

visgoths wrote:He doesn't even have to forfeit in the game that he tried to cheat? This is so weak. If you look at his ratings he has been accused of cheating before. He is a habitual violator. I don't have it out for the guy - I just think the enforcement is weak considering how blatantly he was caught.

Secret Diplomacy is a major violation and yet the violator gets only a warning? This is so weak.


Proper procedure was followed and the C&A team patiently and clearly explained the warning to you. It is an escalated punishment system. If he gets caught doing it again then he gets a nice web site ban. (BTW: Some people actually don't realize SD is a violation or understand what SD is.)

Thanks for reporting it! =D>

Now please stop by my wall and I'll show you how the foe function works.
This post was made by jefjef who should be on your ignore list.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby eddie2 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:48 am

even better should your ass be banned as well..
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2012-03-01 01:07:58 - visgoths: alakim saalam...you baathist dogs get out of Nasyria...Allah is Shia!
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you were taking the piss out of a religion in this game this is against site rules and is classed as bigotry,
Bigotry includes racism, sexism, ageism, homophobia/sexual orientation bashing, religion bashing, lack of religion bashing, or wishing violence on any group of people, etc.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby cookie0117 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:01 am

visgoths wrote:"chill out", " take a deep breath" - I interpret those comments to reflect a sense that cheating is no big deal. We obviously differ on this translation if you are speaking for everyone except me in this thread. In most games when you are caught cheating you are disqualified so forgive me if my posts reflected my surprise that the offender was left off with just a warning. I understand now that there is a process and warnings are given for first time offenders. The people on the thread who feel differently are welcome to their opinions but shouldn't criticize or tell me to chill. We obviously have a different idea about what rules mean. I think the rules are soft on cheaters.


I simple ment you were beginning to get quite personal in your attack on the mods, all that will happen is you will receive a forum ban as the one think that is taken more seriously than cheating in this game ( yes it is only a game!!) is PERSONALLY attacking people. Also ranting for ranting sake generally gets you no where apart from on the other side of a much larger rant. As appears to be happening...

The person was punsihed for breaking the rules inline with the rules. I know the rules in detail take some getting used to on this site as they are not recorded in full in one place. In future you will get alot more support for any cause you wish to fight if you try not to take eveyone on at once from the start.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:36 am

cookie0117 wrote:The person was punsihed for breaking the rules inline with the rules. I know the rules in detail take some getting used to on this site as they are not recorded in full in one place.


You can always read the Community Guidelines 'Rule Enforcement' section, and also our good old Rules Page.


--Andy
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby cookie0117 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:47 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
cookie0117 wrote:The person was punsihed for breaking the rules inline with the rules. I know the rules in detail take some getting used to on this site as they are not recorded in full in one place.


You can always read the Community Guidelines 'Rule Enforcement' section, and also our good old Rules Page.


--Andy


I am aware of most of the rules and dos/donts, my comment was more intented to mean there is no place where very rule is explained in detail i.e. the full CC rule book, listing punishments and procedures. The basic rules page says SD is not permitted but it does not tell you how it will be delt with.

If that was added somewhere it might help prevent some of these situation and also help with transparency of the C & A department
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby eddie2 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:10 pm

cookie0117 wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:
cookie0117 wrote:The person was punsihed for breaking the rules inline with the rules. I know the rules in detail take some getting used to on this site as they are not recorded in full in one place.


You can always read the Community Guidelines 'Rule Enforcement' section, and also our good old Rules Page.


--Andy


I am aware of most of the rules and dos/donts, my comment was more intented to mean there is no place where very rule is explained in detail i.e. the full CC rule book, listing punishments and procedures. The basic rules page says SD is not permitted but it does not tell you how it will be delt with.

If that was added somewhere it might help prevent some of these situation and also help with transparency of the C & A department


rofl you forgot the most important part.. community guidelines say 1 thing. q and a says another thing(in the help section.) and the rules another.. whenever a update to a rule happens they only ever change one of the above.
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