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Losing to Neutral army

Postby torrero on Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:01 am

I have a very quick question....

In a just ended Terminator game (14879679), I (red) was on the verge of eliminating the last remaining opponent (yellow). However, his 1 remaining army was on a territory that auto reverts to neutral each turn. At the start of the game, it went back to neutral and the game ended with no gain of points for myself, and no loss of points for him.

Is this how the mechanic is supposed to work? I assume I am not the first person to experience this, but I couldn't find a relative topic elsewhere on the forum. To me, this doesnt seem like a good way to handle this situation, as it should be a win for myself and a loss for him. Is there any way to have the points awarded?
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Re: Losing to Neutral army

Postby timogl on Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:20 am

if by "should" you mean, do you deserve the points, who knows?

mechanically, the thing is working as it should. in a terminator game, you get points for eliminating a player. the killer neutral eliminated the yellow, so, you can't get points for it.

otherwise, in a terminator game, a "winner" is usually declared. in a game with a round limit, somtimes this can be a real player who missed three turns and was "kicked out" but not technically elimintaed. if the game goes to a round limit, that kicked out player might have more troops (although they are neutral) and "win" the game. this was thought of as a bug and they make have "fixed" it, i don't know.

but that didn't happen here. the yellow was eliminated by the killer neutral, killer neutral is a not a player appearing on the list of players in the game. so, it can't get the points. so, nobody can get them, so, the game ends with no "winner." mechanically, totally reasonable.
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Re: Losing to Neutral army

Postby jcmagno on Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:12 pm

timogl wrote:if by "should" you mean, do you deserve the points, who knows?

mechanically, the thing is working as it should. in a terminator game, you get points for eliminating a player. the killer neutral eliminated the yellow, so, you can't get points for it.

otherwise, in a terminator game, a "winner" is usually declared. in a game with a round limit, somtimes this can be a real player who missed three turns and was "kicked out" but not technically elimintaed. if the game goes to a round limit, that kicked out player might have more troops (although they are neutral) and "win" the game. this was thought of as a bug and they make have "fixed" it, i don't know.

but that didn't happen here. the yellow was eliminated by the killer neutral, killer neutral is a not a player appearing on the list of players in the game. so, it can't get the points. so, nobody can get them, so, the game ends with no "winner." mechanically, totally reasonable.


maybe totally reasonable for you... i don't think so.
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Re: Losing to Neutral army

Postby torrero on Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:06 pm

timogl wrote:if by "should" you mean, do you deserve the points, who knows?

mechanically, the thing is working as it should. in a terminator game, you get points for eliminating a player. the killer neutral eliminated the yellow, so, you can't get points for it.

otherwise, in a terminator game, a "winner" is usually declared. in a game with a round limit, somtimes this can be a real player who missed three turns and was "kicked out" but not technically elimintaed. if the game goes to a round limit, that kicked out player might have more troops (although they are neutral) and "win" the game. this was thought of as a bug and they make have "fixed" it, i don't know.

but that didn't happen here. the yellow was eliminated by the killer neutral, killer neutral is a not a player appearing on the list of players in the game. so, it can't get the points. so, nobody can get them, so, the game ends with no "winner." mechanically, totally reasonable.


I understand that, mechanically, that the neutral army is technically the eliminating army, but obviously cannot receive the points. I think, that while it is mechanically working correctly, that this is a flawed part of the terminator game. The fact that I worked him into a position with a single army remaining, but receive no rewards goes against what I believe the spirit of the point system is. By any reasonable standard I forced the elimination and should be awarded the points. Going even farther, I would say that any time someone is eliminated by a neutral in a Terminator game, that the points should be divided among all other surviving players.

Without getting into the specifics of how to calculate the points lost/awarded among multiple surviving players, wouldn't this be a better way to reflect scoring in these types of situations?
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Re: Losing to Neutral army

Postby timogl on Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:12 pm

perhaps reasonable is a poor choice of words. i meant "reasonable" in the sense, that it is easy to follow the process whereby the chain of events (by reasoning) led to the points not being awarded. Understandable would perhaps be better. What might be unreasonble or not understandable is to expect a computer program to figure out that someone deserves the points which might be what you are hinting at. All the program knows is the other real player in the game did not eliminate the player, so, why would the program give the points to that player?
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Re: Losing to Neutral army

Postby timogl on Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:15 pm

(The good old is/ought dichotomy. Always more fun than a barrel of monkeys.)
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Re: Losing to Neutral army

Postby torrero on Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:18 pm

Right, I understand what you are saying. I am not saying the computer/programming is bugged or anything to that respect. What I AM saying is that I think the coding should be updated to reflect these specific set of circumstances when a neutral army eliminates an opponent. With neutral armies not having the capability of offensively attacking, it is safe to assume that the other players on the map put in at least some effort in putting a player in the situation where they are eliminated by a neutral. I am of the opinion that, because of their work, the scoring system should be revamped to award them points (split among SURVIVING players only) based on the fact that the player had been eliminated.
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Re: Losing to Neutral army

Postby Geger on Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:15 am

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Re: Losing to Neutral army

Postby torrero on Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:19 pm

That makes it sound like the winner would get points and the loser would lose points. To my knowledge that did not happen in this instance.
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Re: Losing to Neutral army

Postby Donelladan on Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:23 am

If you're right torrero, and it seems you are, then you should probably post in bug, because you should have all the points from yellow indeed.
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