Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby pearljamrox2 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:36 am

Nope, no loophole. A loophole is a way to avoid the intentions of a rule.

You have exactly an hour from the time you start your turn to complete your turn. If you do not end your turn before the hour is up, you will not receive spoils. This is the exact intention of the system that we use. It is a penalty for not finishing your turn in the amount of time given. It is a well known feature of our game, and it penalizes us all equally, no matter who we are.

To the punctual goes the spoils?
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby gannable on Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:54 am

i did this once in an escalating game where i needed to take a territory but if I took a card I would have had 3 cards and a perfect kill for the next player.
Afterwards, I felt dirty and ashamed

but we won the game

so I was able to recover emotionally
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby scarryer on Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:18 pm

What is annoying about this is it makes everyone wait longer to do this "tactic." If it is acceptable practice, there should be a "skip turn" button so that we don't have to all wait an hour (or 24 hours when someone is intentionally skipping their whole turn).
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby Evolution299 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:24 pm

Oops double post.
Last edited by Evolution299 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby Evolution299 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:27 pm

pearljamrox2 wrote:Nope, no loophole. A loophole is a way to avoid the intentions of a rule.

You have exactly an hour from the time you start your turn to complete your turn. If you do not end your turn before the hour is up, you will not receive spoils. This is the exact intention of the system that we use. It is a penalty for not finishing your turn in the amount of time given. It is a well known feature of our game, and it penalizes us all equally, no matter who we are.

To the punctual goes the spoils?


The problem Dynasty is that in Nuclear, a card isnt just a reward, but also a punishment. By not taking the card, you are basically having your cake and eating it too. I'm pretty sure that thats not how the system for nuclear games was intended.

Simple answer for this problem, is at the end of the 1hour time limit in Nuclear games only, a card is awarded. No ifs ands or buts.

Problem solved. It should not be that hard to write that into the program.
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby pearljamrox2 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:21 pm

Evolution299 wrote:
The problem Dynasty is that in Nuclear, a card isnt just a reward, but also a punishment. By not taking the card, you are basically having your cake and eating it too. I'm pretty sure that thats not how the system for nuclear games was intended.

Simple answer for this problem, is at the end of the 1hour time limit in Nuclear games only, a card is awarded. No ifs ands or buts.

Problem solved. It should not be that hard to write that into the program.


Maybe the way you choose to play, it isn't a reward. It is still called a spoil though. I find it very rewarding to own a card with a territory that I know will not be blown up. That's a good place to keep a stack of troops.
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby Bones2484 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:12 pm

pearljamrox2 wrote:Nope, no loophole. A loophole is a way to avoid the intentions of a rule.


Awesome quote which actually is an argument against what you are trying to say. Refraining from pushing a button to end your turn as you should when you could easily end your turn is quite clearly a "way to avoid the intentions of a rule".
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby pearljamrox2 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:30 pm

Bones2484 wrote:
Awesome quote which actually is an argument against what you are trying to say. Refraining from pushing a button to end your turn as you should when you could easily end your turn is quite clearly a "way to avoid the intentions of a rule".


I knew you'd like that. The problem is..there is no rule that says you must push the button and end your turn. You are simply given an hour to take your turn. That hour is your time to use. There is nothing that says you can't use every single second that is available to you. And if you use up all your time, without ending....Conquer Club will not give you your card. I've been in quite a few Freestyle Battle Royals where I didn't have a card spot until the last few seconds..I made my attack but I couldn't end my turn fast enough. So I made a worthless attack. I didn't get the card I wanted, and it ruined my game....and funny, no one in the game seemed to mind that I missed out on my card all that much.
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby Viceroy63 on Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:43 pm

gannable wrote:i did this once in an escalating game where i needed to take a territory but if I took a card I would have had 3 cards and a perfect kill for the next player.
Afterwards, I felt dirty and ashamed

but we won the game

so I was able to recover emotionally


Wow! I never thought of that before. What an idea, Huh?

But still, if I did that and then felt dirty and ashamed because of that; I'd just take a really good shower, go to church and confess my sins so that I could at least get a good nights' sleep. :D

Hope that was helpful. =)
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby Tiller on Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:52 am

AAFitz wrote:I think if you choose to play a nuclear game or even escalating, you simply have to choose to accept it as a perfectly valid possibility. If taking another card means you will lose, you're insane to take one yourself by hitting end when you don't have to as well. If CC wants to enforce you take a card, its really their responsibility to program it in, not police the use of the game as programmed in this particular case.

Personally, I think it adds another layer of strategy by having to end, and by being able to choose not to end, which thereby makes the game better and more challenging, not worse.



I'm in 100% agreement with Fitz and pearljam on this one, both sides can do the exact same thing and the only negative towards anyone is a bit of wasted time (which generally happens no matter what). A card is something that happens when you end your turn normally and is intended to be a reward. If you don't want the reward because you feel it won't help you, you take the penalty of lost forts already in that choice, or even if it's not a choice when its unintentional and you run out of time because the turn takes that long or you lose your connection to the internet. Sometimes a nuclear or escalating card that you don't want turns out to be something that saves you later, and giving it up makes you lose the game, you just can't know beforehand with a random generator (trading in escalating earlier than I wanted for 4 armies rather than 15 but then getting 20 to win the game the next turn has often surprised me, same thing with nukes when I lose a territory I wanted to keep but wind up hurting the opposition much more than that... but still odds were looking better for me by not taking the card, I just didn't feel like waiting it out). Treating a run-out of time as a strategy that either side can use is by far the best response to this, and sometimes it happens unintentionally as well and there's no point in creating acrimony over false expectations of how something "should" be done when it's not really part of the programming and hence the rules. You can do it too. I wish all players would, in cases where it helped them, rather than complain and try to force someone else to not do the same.
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby Darkended Blade on Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:51 pm

Fair enough for the arguments of valid stratagy. However if that be the case, perhaps a button allowing a turn to be ended without taking the card would be a good idea? After all waiting for the turn to run out does the same thing, only takes longer :P
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby aad0906 on Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:22 pm

pearljamrox2 wrote:Maybe the way you choose to play, it isn't a reward. It is still called a spoil though. I find it very rewarding to own a card with a territory that I know will not be blown up. That's a good place to keep a stack of troops.


Unless you have a bunch of bold spoils and by taking a 5th card you migt/will be forced to self-nuke at the start of the next turn.
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby eggrollonedolla on Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:25 pm

Actually im in the camp that you are auto sent a card after an hour. If you didnt want a spoils card then you play a game with no spoils settings. The "point" of a nuke game is the reward/punishment that someone else mentioned before. It would def be easy enough to program this.
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby Generick108 on Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:49 pm

I also agree with an auto end button if it is part of a strategy and why not add the option of a game with auto spoil if you take a region so that CC can have many variables of gameplay.
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby mrboltman on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:48 pm

Yes as an option would be good. That way you know what (and whom) you might be dealing with. Not just cards that piss me off on this one but the income from holding territories and completely missing turns. Would be best if missing a turn would mean some penalty half the troop income, cant deploy until end of turn or something to kill the advantage gained. This turn skipping is particularly bad in a one on one game even with flat rate spoils.
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby timogl on Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:43 pm

pearljamrox2 wrote:
Evolution299 wrote:


Maybe the way you choose to play, it isn't a reward. It is still called a spoil though. I find it very rewarding to own a card with a territory that I know will not be blown up. That's a good place to keep a stack of troops.

i don't understand. i play in nuke spoils games and draw cards with the same tert on them several times. are you saying, the tert on the card cannot come out again until the card is cashed in?

(because that is awesome if true. i just did know this was true if it is true.)
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby gimli1990 on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:31 pm

i say that if you take a region in a turn automagically you should get a card that is the way nucleur was intended and that is why i refuse to play nucleur until something is done about this very cheap tractic.
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby Roussallier on Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:25 am

It's really cheap. Deploying and passing the turn is one thing, but that player should be forced to take a spoil if he attacks.
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby TheForgivenOne on Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:09 am

timogl wrote:
pearljamrox2 wrote:
Evolution299 wrote:


Maybe the way you choose to play, it isn't a reward. It is still called a spoil though. I find it very rewarding to own a card with a territory that I know will not be blown up. That's a good place to keep a stack of troops.

i don't understand. i play in nuke spoils games and draw cards with the same tert on them several times. are you saying, the tert on the card cannot come out again until the card is cashed in?

(because that is awesome if true. i just did know this was true if it is true.)


Basically, Yes. The only time that 2 of the same cards will be in play at the same time, is when there are more cards in play then territories. Say 6 players each have 4 cards on Doodle Earth. DE Only has 18 territories. So all 18 territories will be in play, plus 6 duplicates.
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby DJPatrick on Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:40 am

It's a WR game pps...annoying if it happens to you but LEGITIMATE...the rules can be re-written AFTER someone has been killed by strtegy...quite a few posters have described the tactic as "dirty/unfair"...lol...what IS unfair is CC letting cheaters back into the games if they pay their subs again...this, and many other tactical technicalities reflect true combat...the other reflects only commercial imperative...
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CC Profits is the bottom line

Postby Viceroy63 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:40 am

DJPatrick wrote:It's a WR game pps...annoying if it happens to you but LEGITIMATE...the rules can be re-written AFTER someone has been killed by strtegy...quite a few posters have described the tactic as "dirty/unfair"...lol...what IS unfair is CC letting cheaters back into the games if they pay their subs again...this, and many other tactical technicalities reflect true combat...the other reflects only commercial imperative...


The point in letting cheaters back is not to give them a chance to learn from their lesson and rejoin the fold as a re penitent individual but the potential profit loss that could probably measure in the tens of thousands of dollars. With profit/loss margins like those I also would not care if I allowed cheaters back into the site again and again and again and again....

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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby Sey69 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:52 pm

I agree with macbone, but one man's utilization is another's exploitation ;)

and, it seems no worse than intentionally missing one's turn. (Also, not against the rules).
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby ZeekLTK on Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:39 pm

The solution is to fix what is CAUSING the problem, not try to stop people from doing it.

The problem is that people sometimes DON'T WANT cards, especially in nuclear games where cards (which are completely random) can hurt you. In these cases, there should be an Option to DISCARD unwanted cards. If this were possible, no one would let time run out anymore because they would have an easier solution to their problem (which is they don't want to have to use the cards they have).

I mean, how stupid is it to have a rule that a player has to do something that will hurt their chances of winning? No one is going to want to follow that rule, they are going to find ways around it. So if your rule is that players have to nuke 3 of their own territories just because they happened to RANDOMLY get those 3 cards, then they are going to find a way around that. The best way to "fix" it is to not make them do that. Again, put an option where they can throw out the cards rather than play them. How is that hurting anyone else? Player A got 3 turns worth of spoils and doesn't want to use any of them, why can't he just throw them away and try to get other cards, why does he HAVE to use them? How is that giving him any type of advantage over another player? He's not able to use the cards he has, isn't that a fair trade off - he doesn't nuke his own territory, but he also doesn't get to use his spoils at all - seems fair.
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby SirSebstar on Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:30 am

i support the option not to get a spoil over being forced to cash and destroy yourself.
incidently you can join a social clan if you manage to nuke YOURSELF out of the game. there is even an unofficial scoreboard..

however, being able to hold 4 territs with spoils so they cannot be bombed can be a huge, HUGE advantage...
in fact the more i think about it, there is no good way to deal with this. all it needs is some confirmation that like diplomacy this is allowed, or we need to make the system so it cannot happen. the moral ambiguity is spoiling a bit of my fun ( pun intended)
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Re: Letting Time Run Out to Avoid Cards

Postby trevor33 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:27 am

[quote="pearljamrox2"[/quote]

Maybe the way you choose to play, it isn't a reward. It is still called a spoil though. I find it very rewarding to own a card with a territory that I know will not be blown up. That's a good place to keep a stack of troops.[/quote]

What do you do when you have 4 cards but no set and a stack of troops on a territory with everyone else after you ready to cash? Only a complete idiot would take a card. Take a card without moving the troops and you run the risk of having to duke your own troops next round, move our troops and they could be nuked by an opponent about to cash. Nothing wrong with the way it is at the moment in my opinion... luck has a big enough roll to play in games the way it is.
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