Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby DiM on Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:37 am

HighlanderAttack wrote:
mc05025 wrote:Hive it is. If you are good at it you can have the rank of General by playing casual sequential games with random people. I do not know any other map you can do something like this. Try it with no spoil and chained reinforcement


It is because no one has the mental energy to play that god forsaken map


hands down the worst map ever created. and i'm not talking just about the piss-poor graphics but also about the completely idiotic gameplay that fails at even the most basic needs for proper game mechanics.

one would expect such a huge map to be a good balanced one where dice don;t matter that much because of its sheer size.
in reality in 1v1 games it only takes a couple of turns with good dice and the game is yours. sure it will be 20 more turns before the game is actually over but those 2 turns of good dice are enough to take a bonus and establish a lead.
on a map that has the lowest bonus to terit ratio, being the first to getting and keeping a bonus is crucial and basically decides the game.

the only difference between getting and holding a bonus on doodle and on hive is that on doodle the game is over within 2 turns while on hive it takes a long gruesomely slow grind where each turn you take 5-6 terits from the opponent, then he snatches back 3-4, and so on.
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby mc05025 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:09 am

DiM wrote:
HighlanderAttack wrote:
mc05025 wrote:Hive it is. If you are good at it you can have the rank of General by playing casual sequential games with random people. I do not know any other map you can do something like this. Try it with no spoil and chained reinforcement


It is because no one has the mental energy to play that god forsaken map


hands down the worst map ever created. and i'm not talking just about the piss-poor graphics but also about the completely idiotic gameplay that fails at even the most basic needs for proper game mechanics.

one would expect such a huge map to be a good balanced one where dice don;t matter that much because of its sheer size.
in reality in 1v1 games it only takes a couple of turns with good dice and the game is yours. sure it will be 20 more turns before the game is actually over but those 2 turns of good dice are enough to take a bonus and establish a lead.
on a map that has the lowest bonus to terit ratio, being the first to getting and keeping a bonus is crucial and basically decides the game.

the only difference between getting and holding a bonus on doodle and on hive is that on doodle the game is over within 2 turns while on hive it takes a long gruesomely slow grind where each turn you take 5-6 terits from the opponent, then he snatches back 3-4, and so on.



You are wrong about everything you said. Actually you have played 1 game on hive 1v1 so I am not surprised

1v1 has the simplest strategy and that is why players use tricks when playing 1v1 (for example freestyle, manual or speed games). So do not expect a very complicated strategy. I believe that people with the rank of general or even Brigadier can play almost perfect after gaining some experience.

Now about hive a friend of mine (kaskavel) made it to general in no time playing Hive 1v1 and without using any tricks at all. He gained all his points by using a better strategy (a proof that everything you said was wrong)
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby Jippd on Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:31 am

mc05025 wrote:
Jippd wrote:Das schloss got me to general


That is because you are playing speed games with 1 min and people do not have the time to understand a complicated map they do not know. If you were playing casual the results wouldn't be the same. More majors and colonels using BOB will join your games and your results would not be the same


I play plenty of games with people that use bob, are captains and above, have experience on the map and still beat them. If you are trying to imply that I have no strategy in Das Schloss I can ensure you that you are wrong. None the less bob is useless in a FOW game on das schloss in a 1 v 1 minute speed. You can see from the log what your opponent is dropping and how many regions they have. That's all you need to know.

Hive is more about dice and who gets first turn, I can assure you there is more strategy in das schloss 1 v 1 than hive 1 v 1.
Last edited by Jippd on Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby DiM on Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:13 pm

mc05025 wrote:
DiM wrote:
HighlanderAttack wrote:
mc05025 wrote:Hive it is. If you are good at it you can have the rank of General by playing casual sequential games with random people. I do not know any other map you can do something like this. Try it with no spoil and chained reinforcement


It is because no one has the mental energy to play that god forsaken map


hands down the worst map ever created. and i'm not talking just about the piss-poor graphics but also about the completely idiotic gameplay that fails at even the most basic needs for proper game mechanics.

one would expect such a huge map to be a good balanced one where dice don;t matter that much because of its sheer size.
in reality in 1v1 games it only takes a couple of turns with good dice and the game is yours. sure it will be 20 more turns before the game is actually over but those 2 turns of good dice are enough to take a bonus and establish a lead.
on a map that has the lowest bonus to terit ratio, being the first to getting and keeping a bonus is crucial and basically decides the game.

the only difference between getting and holding a bonus on doodle and on hive is that on doodle the game is over within 2 turns while on hive it takes a long gruesomely slow grind where each turn you take 5-6 terits from the opponent, then he snatches back 3-4, and so on.



You are wrong about everything you said. Actually you have played 1 game on hive 1v1 so I am not surprised

1v1 has the simplest strategy and that is why players use tricks when playing 1v1 (for example freestyle, manual or speed games). So do not expect a very complicated strategy. I believe that people with the rank of general or even Brigadier can play almost perfect after gaining some experience.

Now about hive a friend of mine (kaskavel) made it to general in no time playing Hive 1v1 and without using any tricks at all. He gained all his points by using a better strategy (a proof that everything you said was wrong)


it would help if you read my post before you reply. what exactly am i wrong about?
1. i said nothing about tricks and cheap tactics so i have no idea why you're mentioning this.
2. i said that the map has (one of) the lowest bonus to terit ratio which is indisputable. the fact that you're saying i'm wrong only proves that you're the one that's mistaking.
3. i also said the map has piss-poor graphics which is also indisputable. unless you're a fan of poorly executed pixelated borders, in which case you know nothing about graphics.
4. and finally i said that whoever has the first streak of good dice and secures a bonus wins which is also very true if you take into account that both players know what they're doing and the dice are average.
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby Qwert on Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:10 pm

try pelo war map,its give equal chances no mather who start first.
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby mc05025 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:00 pm

Jippd wrote:
mc05025 wrote:
Jippd wrote:Das schloss got me to general


That is because you are playing speed games with 1 min and people do not have the time to understand a complicated map they do not know. If you were playing casual the results wouldn't be the same. More majors and colonels using BOB will join your games and your results would not be the same


I play plenty of games with people that use bob, are captains and above, have experience on the map and still beat them. If you are trying to imply that I have no strategy in Das Schloss I can ensure you that you are wrong. None the less bob is useless in a FOW game on das schloss in a 1 v 1 minute speed. You can see from the log what your opponent is dropping and how many regions they have. That's all you need to know.

Hive is more about dice and who gets first turn, I can assure you there is more strategy in das schloss 1 v 1 than hive 1 v 1.


Trying to imply you have not strategy?? not at all.

I do not believe that.

Obviously in 1 min games BOB does not help. You have to know the strategy and not finding it during the game which is the reason you have that huge advantage.

I believe that if you play 1v1 casual you will drop under 3500. You think otherwise? Do you know an example that a player make it to general without using speed games with limited time or freestyle in 1v1?
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby army of nobunaga on Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:16 pm

Listen.. let these guys debate though I agree with DiM....


play large maps that rely on skill and not tricks..

the new knights map is actually the best.
Hive feudals... large maps with a varying low and high neutral count... maps like oasis and mogal are trick maps and generals are mad from those tricks so beware.

I hold back more than these guys know... the little I respect the 1vs1 paper champs here and the Andys that support them.. well Ill not go the4re.


Just message me.. ill give you the real nobu list with no punches pulled... and if you talk each turn and read each turn and are over 15 years old, ill play doubles with you on any map any setting you want to learn.. not many people will offer you that here.
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby chapcrap on Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:35 pm

FACT: army of nobunaga is in love with the Knights map. He is planning to propose over Memorial Day weekend. :-$
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby Kaskavel on Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:38 pm

I promoted to a general by playing 1 vs 1 Hive. Not because I am the clever guy of the site or because I am a superior strategist etc, but because I chose this map. Obviously many people can repeat this process. It is not much time consuming for a premium. In fact I was a Brig for 5-6 days...I overstepped the rank of Brig in a single week. And I have not reached my zenith, I am still rising with 3632 rating and 12 100% won games standing by and waiting to be finished. I am not aware if anyone has ever done something like this in another map, so it is natural to claim that hive is the superior strategic 1 vs 1 map. No "trick" was involved. No fog, no freestyle, not only speed games (about 50-50), no private games, no invitations, no foeing opponents who defeat me, nothing. Pure no spoils hive 1 vs 1 games free for all players. Unless someone can claim to have done that (reach the general rank) in another map, it is safe and natural for me to assume that this is the superior map for 1 vs 1 games. Of course, if some "tricks" get invloved, this may change. I assume someone can further increase this score by applying freestyle play for example. Yes, maybe someone can reach higher with freestyle, private 1 minute games in lets say knights map. But if we want to compare maps, we have to stick to comparing basic settings, otherwise we are not making a conversation to reach a verdict, we just yell to each other with sentences like "pelop war rocks! It is the best!". You cannot disregard this arguement (you can in fact, but it is not proper in a conversation) by replying "My opinion is that Feudal epic is the best". This implies that you suggest your favorite map, without sufficient arguements or comparing data to decide. If someone wants to prove that another map is superior, he has to overstep the given and accomplished score by playing natural settings in his favorit map. You cannot convince me by using the current conqueror as counterexample. It is not comparable. You have to bring an arguement that compares similar settings. And you have to objective. I also do not like the graphics of Hive or the amount needed to clean up the map, but this should not cloud our judgement. This makes the map unpleasant, ugly and time consuming, but does not contribute to the discussion about which map is superior for 1 vs 1 games, which is the subject of this topic.
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby macbone on Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:48 am

Very impressive, Kaskavel! I like how you take on all comers. I think part of your success is less about the Hive being an excellent 1v1 map (my experience with it is 6+ players and Quads) and more about taking a map, mastering it, and playing it very well.

But may I suggest that Hive 1v1 may not be the best map for the majors, colonels, and brigs that you've beaten lately? =)

I agree with you, though, Hive is a great map to play.
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby siddify on Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:26 pm

malabrosse did it with New World, I believe...
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby mc05025 on Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:16 pm

siddify wrote:malabrosse did it with New World, I believe...


Malabrose was playing freestyle speed games. The game play had nothing to do with pure strategy
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby gameplayer on Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:49 pm

mc05025 wrote:
siddify wrote:malabrosse did it with New World, I believe...


Malabrose was playing freestyle speed games. The game play had nothing to do with pure strategy

turmeric was at 3800 for a while playing only sequential cricket 1v1. At the beginning most of his games were casual, though he switched to speed after a while.
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby siddify on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:12 pm

mc05025 wrote:
siddify wrote:malabrosse did it with New World, I believe...


Malabrose was playing freestyle speed games. The game play had nothing to do with pure strategy


I disagree with that. Freestyle game play depends on a lot of things, not the least of which is strategy. To make things even more difficult, you have to make strategic decisions on the fly and react quickly. I think it is a different type of game, for sure, but to say there is no strategy involved is incorrect.
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby natty dread on Tue May 08, 2012 12:12 am

Play Eurasia. I took some steps to ensure 1v1:s would work out on the map:
- bonus drops are nigh impossible thanks to use of neutrals and starting positions for smaller bonuses
- both start with a 10 troops deploy and you can't drop the 2nd player under it on the first turn (unless you get really amazing luck), which eliminates any first player advantage
- you can't get a higher than 10 deploy either without taking a bonus, so the bonuses actually matter, and taking neutrals isn't such a bad move if the situation calls for it
- best of all, it's really biiiiiiiig
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby chapcrap on Wed May 09, 2012 5:10 pm

natty dread wrote:which eliminates any first player advantage

That's not really true. You can't eliminate first player advantage. But, he's right about Eurasia being a pretty decent 1v1 map.
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby Kaskavel on Wed May 23, 2012 5:54 am

gameplayer wrote:
mc05025 wrote:
siddify wrote:malabrosse did it with New World, I believe...


Malabrose was playing freestyle speed games. The game play had nothing to do with pure strategy

turmeric was at 3800 for a while playing only sequential cricket 1v1. At the beginning most of his games were casual, though he switched to speed after a while.


OK. I cannot check that now, but I believe you. This makes cricket another good candidate, together with hive, for the best strategic map.
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed May 23, 2012 10:38 am

Has anyone tried Knights, the new BETA map? It might be a candidate.


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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby chapcrap on Wed May 23, 2012 12:40 pm

Kaskavel wrote:
gameplayer wrote:
mc05025 wrote:
siddify wrote:malabrosse did it with New World, I believe...


Malabrose was playing freestyle speed games. The game play had nothing to do with pure strategy

turmeric was at 3800 for a while playing only sequential cricket 1v1. At the beginning most of his games were casual, though he switched to speed after a while.


OK. I cannot check that now, but I believe you. This makes cricket another good candidate, together with hive, for the best strategic map.

About Cricket: they have changed the XML on it since turmeric played. Not quite the same map.
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby anonymus on Wed May 23, 2012 1:37 pm

chapcrap wrote:
Kaskavel wrote:
gameplayer wrote:
mc05025 wrote:
siddify wrote:malabrosse did it with New World, I believe...


Malabrose was playing freestyle speed games. The game play had nothing to do with pure strategy

turmeric was at 3800 for a while playing only sequential cricket 1v1. At the beginning most of his games were casual, though he switched to speed after a while.


OK. I cannot check that now, but I believe you. This makes cricket another good candidate, together with hive, for the best strategic map.

About Cricket: they have changed the XML on it since turmeric played. Not quite the same map.


yeah cricket is no fun anymore.. just another map like any other..

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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby agentcom on Thu May 24, 2012 11:29 am

The problem with a lot of "strategy" maps is that they become farming maps. It's unfortunate, but if there's a map where strategy truly can guarantee a win against a first time player, people get all upset. I don't know if that's what happened to cricket.

There was a "flaw" in Rorke's that allowed 2 turn wins given certain settings. Two experienced players would have to counter this to ensure that they could even stay in the game. That's kind of a cool thing for a map to have. But noobs were helpless on it.
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby King Engineer on Thu May 24, 2012 10:16 pm

thats a really really good point
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby stoicbird on Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:55 pm

Istanbul. You start with 3, there's no wierd bonuses, you don't have to attack lots of neutrals and there are plenty of attack routes. Its makes for a very strategic game with chained esc.
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby Gillipig on Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:09 am

stoicbird wrote:Istanbul. You start with 3, there's no wierd bonuses, you don't have to attack lots of neutrals and there are plenty of attack routes. Its makes for a very strategic game with chained esc.

Not a very complicated map though. If I had to pick one map to illustrate skill on 1v1 it would be Das Schloss.
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Re: Best 1 v 1 map that has more strategy than luck?

Postby Viceroy63 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:58 am

agentcom wrote:The problem with a lot of "strategy" maps is that they become farming maps. It's unfortunate, but if there's a map where strategy truly can guarantee a win against a first time player, people get all upset. I don't know if that's what happened to cricket.

There was a "flaw" in Rorke's that allowed 2 turn wins given certain settings. Two experienced players would have to counter this to ensure that they could even stay in the game. That's kind of a cool thing for a map to have. But noobs were helpless on it.


That's not only a very good point but it explains why some people get obsessed with certain maps. Of course there are lots of reasons why people get obsessed with certain maps but ranching points has got to be there at the top of the list.

I believe that I have an idea for a strategy map that will also be a historical and informative map about the Island of Puerto Rico. Rich Port in english. LOL. It will have two versions. The Modern and the Ancient.

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