Fighting cooks.

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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby AslanTheKing on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:27 pm

nice input i will consicer, still , its not the cook, nor the strategy, its still the dice, dont forget that
and i stop attacking when i feel my dice are crap, but next turn my opponent doesnt stop and succeeds and has more regions, there fore
after 15 regions , more troops already , and how hard i try, i lose

i do win games, because of pure luck in escalating, not because of dice

i liked reading it, in my mind im doing the strategy and analyze it thorough,
and then comes the dice
I used to roll the daizz
Feel the fear in my enemy´s eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:

Long live the Army Of Kings !


AOK

show: AOK Rocks
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby skychaser on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:55 pm

jsnyder748 wrote:
skychaser wrote:You're right. I focused at the "defaults". Which is the way most players are used to so most people would think the guide as valuable.


I don't like these maps where you can avoid weak players, it ruins all the fun cause you can't be touched it also means they can't touch your opponents.
Thus at these maps one can't influence the board as much as a normal game so I think it has lesser skills involved and it's only a matter of farming, not playing. Once one learn these maps this one will always do the same thing, attack at the same turn and so on, so on. Boring.


Obviously I have enough skill to play "default" games, but I am not sure how you can say that those games take more skill. I would say they take more luck than anything else. If I played those simple, slow paced games I would be much more bored than playing maps that actually make you think and strategize, as well as influence others through the chat. A prime example of this would be xiangwang, Kiron or mc05025. They play on complicated maps, with interesting settings that lend to different playing strategies and tricks. Everyone has a chance at winning, but they need to be able to play with the same skill level as those who have mastered the technique to win.

How would you not be able to influence the board in freestyle or on maps where you have a starting position? (Even on the few maps I mentioned) The "double turn" is one of the biggest swinging factors in freestyle and if used correctly can win the game in a few short strokes. There are bonuses on these maps despite what you are implying that make others want to hold areas and attack each other and while it may not be the best strategy under some settings such as escalating (better to sit back and wait for high level card cashes) you can certainly do anything you would be able to do on default maps but with more precision and faster.

You can never truly avoid weak players. It just helps to have a region that cannot be attacked out of the starting gates. This ensures that the person with the most skill will have a chance to use that skill before they are attacked for no reason.

Oh I didn't mean to be offensive or something.

Yep. There is for example bonuses at Das Shcloss for example. But absolute mostly of them are absolute negative bonus as you have to take dozens and dozens of neutrals to get a +3. At Freestyle it doesn't matter cause almost any match is decided at the double turn so it's only a matter of players who have learnt the "difficult" map watching people who didn't fighthing over nothing since they won't even lay troops near then and on the double turn that territory is completely useless.
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby skychaser on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:56 pm

jsnyder748 wrote:
skychaser wrote:You're right. I focused at the "defaults". Which is the way most players are used to so most people would think the guide as valuable.


I don't like these maps where you can avoid weak players, it ruins all the fun cause you can't be touched it also means they can't touch your opponents.
Thus at these maps one can't influence the board as much as a normal game so I think it has lesser skills involved and it's only a matter of farming, not playing. Once one learn these maps this one will always do the same thing, attack at the same turn and so on, so on. Boring.


Obviously I have enough skill to play "default" games, but I am not sure how you can say that those games take more skill. I would say they take more luck than anything else. If I played those simple, slow paced games I would be much more bored than playing maps that actually make you think and strategize, as well as influence others through the chat. A prime example of this would be xiangwang, Kiron or mc05025. They play on complicated maps, with interesting settings that lend to different playing strategies and tricks. Everyone has a chance at winning, but they need to be able to play with the same skill level as those who have mastered the technique to win.

How would you not be able to influence the board in freestyle or on maps where you have a starting position? (Even on the few maps I mentioned) The "double turn" is one of the biggest swinging factors in freestyle and if used correctly can win the game in a few short strokes. There are bonuses on these maps despite what you are implying that make others want to hold areas and attack each other and while it may not be the best strategy under some settings such as escalating (better to sit back and wait for high level card cashes) you can certainly do anything you would be able to do on default maps but with more precision and faster.

You can never truly avoid weak players. It just helps to have a region that cannot be attacked out of the starting gates. This ensures that the person with the most skill will have a chance to use that skill before they are attacked for no reason.
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby skychaser on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:58 pm

jsnyder748 wrote:
skychaser wrote:Example. Last Game I played I had a lot of trouble cause There was a player I didn't know where his last pieces where. I attacked 3 of his weak spots and a weak player followed by eliminating him from a section of the map. Exactly what I wanted. You can't see this at Das Chloss as an example cause the armies at any section hardly matter. Even more if it's Freestyle. At this mode the armies have no importance at all.


That is only the case for escalating. All escalating games are not about bonuses or territories, just about sweeping the map in one turn.

Yep. At fixed cards we have another tricks available. I would be very delighted if someone would someday write a guide about it.
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby skychaser on Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:00 pm

AslanTheKing wrote:nice input i will consicer, still , its not the cook, nor the strategy, its still the dice, dont forget that
and i stop attacking when i feel my dice are crap, but next turn my opponent doesnt stop and succeeds and has more regions, there fore
after 15 regions , more troops already , and how hard i try, i lose

i do win games, because of pure luck in escalating, not because of dice

i liked reading it, in my mind im doing the strategy and analyze it thorough,
and then comes the dice

But you're playing x1? If it's x1 you have to say only a few selected maps have strategy or so. But in 3 to more players there are strategies you can use.
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby jsnyder748 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:47 pm

skychaser wrote:
jsnyder748 wrote:
skychaser wrote:You're right. I focused at the "defaults". Which is the way most players are used to so most people would think the guide as valuable.


I don't like these maps where you can avoid weak players, it ruins all the fun cause you can't be touched it also means they can't touch your opponents.
Thus at these maps one can't influence the board as much as a normal game so I think it has lesser skills involved and it's only a matter of farming, not playing. Once one learn these maps this one will always do the same thing, attack at the same turn and so on, so on. Boring.


Obviously I have enough skill to play "default" games, but I am not sure how you can say that those games take more skill. I would say they take more luck than anything else. If I played those simple, slow paced games I would be much more bored than playing maps that actually make you think and strategize, as well as influence others through the chat. A prime example of this would be xiangwang, Kiron or mc05025. They play on complicated maps, with interesting settings that lend to different playing strategies and tricks. Everyone has a chance at winning, but they need to be able to play with the same skill level as those who have mastered the technique to win.

How would you not be able to influence the board in freestyle or on maps where you have a starting position? (Even on the few maps I mentioned) The "double turn" is one of the biggest swinging factors in freestyle and if used correctly can win the game in a few short strokes. There are bonuses on these maps despite what you are implying that make others want to hold areas and attack each other and while it may not be the best strategy under some settings such as escalating (better to sit back and wait for high level card cashes) you can certainly do anything you would be able to do on default maps but with more precision and faster.

You can never truly avoid weak players. It just helps to have a region that cannot be attacked out of the starting gates. This ensures that the person with the most skill will have a chance to use that skill before they are attacked for no reason.

Oh I didn't mean to be offensive or something.

Yep. There is for example bonuses at Das Shcloss for example. But absolute mostly of them are absolute negative bonus as you have to take dozens and dozens of neutrals to get a +3. At Freestyle it doesn't matter cause almost any match is decided at the double turn so it's only a matter of players who have learnt the "difficult" map watching people who didn't fighthing over nothing since they won't even lay troops near then and on the double turn that territory is completely useless.


Regardless of our opinions, good guide =D> =D> =D> =D>
I did like how someone took the time to write this. It will help people playing cooks and cooks themselves
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby skychaser on Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:40 am

Thank you.

I think however that Freestyle without objectives have some strategies. They are not obvious. Maybe someone should write some guide about them.
I like big foggy freestyle maps as an example. There are some nice tricks and it develops it's own "madness". I love stalking some players Lol.
I guess it could be my third guide or maybe you could do it.
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby ZeekLTK on Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:59 am

skychaser wrote:Example. Last Game I played I had a lot of trouble cause There was a player I didn't know where his last pieces where. I attacked 3 of his weak spots and a weak player followed by eliminating him from a section of the map. Exactly what I wanted. You can't see this at Das Chloss as an example cause the armies at any section hardly matter. Even more if it's Freestyle. At this mode the armies have no importance at all.


Yeah this is something that a lot of cooks do, they don't pay attention to how many regions an opponent has, or his locations, and will often hand free cards to another player by attacking a weak player (weak as in, low territory/army count) and making it so that someone else can eliminate them, such as taking them out of one part of the map, so that someone on the other side can finish them off and get the cards. You need to try to position yourself so that YOU are the player that gets the free cards, rather than one of your main opponents.

So if you are near a player that only has a couple territories left, but may be spread out, then you need to try to isolate that player from any cooks so that they cannot attack him and send the cards to one of your other opponents. Then you just wait patiently for someone on the other side of the board (most likely another cook) to kill them off over there so you can go for the elimination.

Or if there are no cooks on the other side, make a truce with the now isolated weak player and then just keep the cook on your side away from him so that they can fight on the other side and hopefully provoke someone to eliminate them so you can finish them off.

Basically, just pay attention to cooks around weakened players, because chances are they are going to set someone up for free cards, so it might as well be you!
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby ZeekLTK on Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:10 am

Also just try to avoid assassin games with cooks. Either that, or pray that the cook is your target.

I played a 5-player one recently where the cook was the last to join (so I didn't have a chance to get out) and of course, he was the one who got eliminated because he was the only one who wasn't properly defending himself. :roll:
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby skychaser on Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:26 am

Thank you Zeek. You got the geist real fine.
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby ZeekLTK on Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:03 pm

Yeah, that helped me win an 8-player First Nations Americas game - this one guy (green) kept giving people free cards, so I figured it might as well be me.

First, he did it against me - pink was the weakest, only had like 3-4 territories left. I knew one was way up in Canada since I had started by it but had been kicked out of the area by blue. There were some pink territories in South America too (near my main army in Central America), so I was avoiding them to not help blue out. But then all of a sudden, from the other side of South America, green hits pink to knock him down to just that 1 up in Canada, and then obviously blue eliminates pink to get the cards. Ugh.

What a bad move. I decided to see if I could get green to work for me though - I trapped light blue and yellow in the area I was; light blue had 3 territories left, 2 in the Caribbean and 1 somewhere down in Chile/Argentina. Yellow had just Peru but I was too busy fighting red/gray/green elsewhere so I made a truce and didn't attack him.

So, I surround light blue so that no one else can attack him in the Caribbean and then waited patiently. Eventually, as expected, green killed light blue in the south and then I immediately eliminated him in the Caribbean to get his cards. Later on green goes after yellow and it gets to a point where yellow has 2 territories left in an X-Y-Y-Z formation (yellow is the Ys, I'm X, green is Z). It's trench, so it's not possible for either of us to eliminate yellow in one turn. So I sit patiently and just wait... sure enough, green attacks yellow and knocks him down to just the 1 territory. So I obviously eliminate him on the next turn and get his cards. Thanks green.

And then, he did the same against gray too! I trapped gray in Brazil, although he still had troops further south as well, but green stupidly killed off gray in Argentina, leaving him alone in Brazil for me to eliminate - cool, more cards for me.

So this guy basically helped eliminate 4 players from the game and got ZERO cards for doing so. lol

He wasn't a cook, but he might as well have been.
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby skychaser on Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:11 am

Good it works at Trench too. Strategy is all about using other weaknesses to your own benefit.
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby Viceroy63 on Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:19 am

Notice:
The names and the dates of the following story have been changed to protect the innocent. Any similarity with any persons either living or dead or any games won or lost is purely coincidental. The total score accumulated in this non game is also fiction. Parental Guidance is advice. The story that you are about to read, is not for young viewers. Please have your heart medication within easy reach and do not take your eyes off of the story. :lol:

ZeekLTK wrote:Yeah, that helped me win an 8-player First Nations Americas game - this one guy (green) kept giving people free cards, so I figured it might as well be me.

First, he did it against me - pink was the weakest, only had like 3-4 territories left. I knew one was way up in Canada since I had started by it but had been kicked out of the area by blue. There were some pink territories in South America too (near my main army in Central America), so I was avoiding them to not help blue out. But then all of a sudden, from the other side of South America, green hits pink to knock him down to just that 1 up in Canada, and then obviously blue eliminates pink to get the cards. Ugh.

What a bad move. I decided to see if I could get green to work for me though - I trapped light blue and yellow in the area I was; light blue had 3 territories left, 2 in the Caribbean and 1 somewhere down in Chile/Argentina. Yellow had just Peru but I was too busy fighting red/gray/green elsewhere so I made a truce and didn't attack him.

So, I surround light blue so that no one else can attack him in the Caribbean and then waited patiently. Eventually, as expected, green killed light blue in the south and then I immediately eliminated him in the Caribbean to get his cards. Later on green goes after yellow and it gets to a point where yellow has 2 territories left in an X-Y-Y-Z formation (yellow is the Ys, I'm X, green is Z). It's trench, so it's not possible for either of us to eliminate yellow in one turn. So I sit patiently and just wait... sure enough, green attacks yellow and knocks him down to just the 1 territory. So I obviously eliminate him on the next turn and get his cards. Thanks green.

And then, he did the same against gray too! I trapped gray in Brazil, although he still had troops further south as well, but green stupidly killed off gray in Argentina, leaving him alone in Brazil for me to eliminate - cool, more cards for me.

So this guy basically helped eliminate 4 players from the game and got ZERO cards for doing so. lol

He wasn't a cook, but he might as well have been.


And the Moro of this story is:
If you can't be with the player that you want to kill,
Then kill the player that you are with.
:lol:
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby skychaser on Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:38 am

Lol hahaha.

But it's really a nice story.
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby Viceroy63 on Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:18 pm

skychaser wrote:Lol hahaha.

But it's really a nice story.


I agree, it's a very nice story. I could almost see the story unfold in my mind. And I also have a story and an idea for Television Series based on 2001 A Space odyssey. You know, The mission to Mars where the computer went crazy and tried to kill the Pilot/Astronaut, Dave. Then we learn that there was a deeper mystery involved.

Well in my idea a very large ship would be traveling to another world, an earth like planet. The voyage would take several generations to complete and the ship would have to be a huge biosphere kind of ship. But as fate would have it, there are these religious fanatics with government connections who simply wont stand for another earth type planet being populated by humans. They have managed to plant spies on "Mother One" in order that they may destroy that 'Mother' when the timing is right and make it look like an accident. Something about the destiny of man being on our planet. (Remember that this is just a story. LOL.)

So these fanatics manage to get saboteurs on board in an attempt to discourage future voyages to this earth like planet. Their aim is to make it look like the ship met with some kind of deep space accident in which all of those people died. Our Hero 'Dave,' A Keifer Sutherland type (from 24) discovers the plot with help from international intelligence forces back on earth. Too far out to turn the ship around to deal with the threat, Dave is on his own on board 'Mother One' with no one to trust, to figure out the plot to destroy the ship and find the saboteurs.

His only ally on the ship is 'HAL' his Holographic, Algorithms and Logistical personal computer. Together they go each weakly episode, to find the bad guys and stop them from destroying the ship and saving all of those lives on that "Mother." Later on as the story unfolds he finds that there is this 'Fighting Cook' he can trust and together, like Batman and Robin they set out to save that "Mother" and all of her "Wiches." LOL.

All events occur in real time. LOL. :lol:
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby skychaser on Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:25 am

You'll need a good director for this story.
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby OliverFA on Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:03 pm

Having reached the range of major recently and also recently became truly scared of cooks and their unpredictability, I love this thread. Once you embrace that most low ranked players behave unpredictably, surviving to them and keeping your rank becomes as fun as it was to reach it.
Welcoming the long awaited Trench Warfare Setting (Previously Adjacent Attacks).

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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby waltero on Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:17 pm

OliverFA wrote:Having reached the range of major recently and also recently became truly scared of cooks and their unpredictability, I love this thread. Once you embrace that most low ranked players behave unpredictably, surviving to them and keeping your rank becomes as fun as it was to reach it.


Great! That is how everybody should take it.
To simply avoid (foe) cooks altogether is not going to help your game (improvement)play in the slightest.

I have played many a low rank players and I do not think they are anymore suicidal than any other player (not for long anyhow). Once they join as a full member then their fun begins.

it has been brought to my attention that many High rank players 'threaten' to suicide on your arse (many physically do suicide on your arse) not much of a difference if you ask me.
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby Viceroy63 on Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:06 pm

Nah; It's all just a whole lot of talking and no walking. =)

Real suicider's don't threaten to jump, They just jump off the building and that's all she wrote. That's just the one's looking for attention who do all that talking, because they get none at home. lol. =)
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby waltero on Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:55 pm

I had a post in a different topic. I think this portion of my post is better fitted to this topic.

Tis not hard to understand how a fair player can have such a low rank, other than totally sucking at this game.
Many Factors to consider.
Rank
medals
ratings
team games
1vs 1 games
and much much more.
This game is unique, It has a wide range of players (oppose to other games)
People tend to get into this game. Feelings run ramp id here.
too many angry people.

Tis a fun game for all to enjoy.
I do not need to get into a pissing match with anybody here. Who is better than who.
A players Stats are available for everybody to see (unless you are banned from the forum :oops: ). You can get a clear picture on whether a player sucks or not.


SIMPLY VIEWING A 'COOKS HAT' DOES NOT MAKE FOR A TOTALLY SUCK PLAYER!

When I engage into battle against a top ranking player I only understand that he is not new to the game. I do not feel he is better than I (in a non team game).

Oh crap, I am a cadet! I suck.
Need to fix that...gots to be a cook, so I can totally suck!
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Cook waltero
 
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby betiko on Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:03 pm

This is simply because in a 1v1 only very basic skills are required, and the biggest part has to do with luck.
If we played 10 1v1 games vs each other, i won 8 and you won 2 i would most probably still lose points overall. So on luck based games (when you have risk basics) the few tricks I know won t do much compared to the advantage it is to start first, to get a trade at the right timing or to have great dice. You have nothing to fear vs high ranked players. If you want to rank up, i suggest you to go find 1v1 games on easy maps/settings in the game finder and go farm some high ranked players. That s the stupid thing about the system. You probably will win points by maintaining a 35% win rate or so vs slightly higher ranked. And gosh you ll piss them off by taking 50pts each time. But once you rank up you ll see it starts being a different story when you get less than 20 per win.
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby clowncar on Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:32 pm

When I first joined the site, I stated that a cook's best strategy against a high rank is to gamble as they learn better ways to approach the game and I still believe it is true. I don't think a cook getting lucky on bad dice odds is all that much different a role as luck plays in other situations throughout gameplay. But the longer the game plays out, the larger the advantage for the presumably better player. The reason that higher ranked players hate the bad gambles by cook's is because they know it hurts their win % compared to playing the cooks who simply try their version of conventional strategy. That is to say ...

COOK A: plays bad strategy but tries to employ what he thinks is normal good strategy

COOK B: takes ill advised early gambles

Higher Ranked player: Has the tools and strategies down pretty good.

COOK A will likely have a good winning % against COOK B but he will have a lower % against the higher ranked player.

If you are a higher ranked player, you would much rather play against cook A, and it has nothing to do with bad play ruining a game it has to do with the fact that you are about to get point pounded if you lose and you are more likely to lose against COOK B.
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby waltero on Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:41 pm

No matter what Strategy (a long shot or not) a guy uses...it always comes down to luck.
Do you feel lucky Punk...well do ya..Yes I do!

Bad Luck, you (any player HR or not) are not going to take Chances( the long shot) good luck You might feel it is worth the chance..Especially if you have nothing to lose.
Say you are thinking of doing something Crazy (a long shot)...it might give you the game (or put you back in the game).
So you test the waters...you attack only once, "OH lookie there" that was nice, you continue your attack. OK things went well for you in your First assault.
So you follow up with your plan...your attacks are going better than planned.
The only thing the other players will understand, is that (if you are a low rank) you are a noob and playing the game of luck.
When that is not the case at all (other than the entire game being based on luck).
When a noob gets lucky (plan follows through)he is an idiot, a cook (noob).

Fact is we all play our game (not necessarily Strategy) on the luck factor.
Just as if you do not attack somebody because you know Your luck is nothing but bad today. Everybody will Have an understanding that you should of attacked such and such and that is why you are doing so bad.
Underestimating a cook can lead to your demise.

I can remember one of my first wins on a multi-singles game. I Had suggested to a fellow player not to collect a card because he was being targeted. Some other HR got on my case for speaking to a HR player (while I was a low rank).
As well...the very start of the game, all the HR lambasted me for taking control of such a puny little country (This board everybody had to gain control of a Bonus in order to survive)..
Later in the game (being lambasted all the while) I knew the game was mine...I even stated as much, then the remarks really came a flyin.
It might have been that every player underestimated me (being that I was A lowly cook)...that contributing to my Victory.
When I win a game you should understand that it is my, Skill and daring...SKILL AND DARING!


My point is, no matter how a cook plays the game, it will always be con screwed as Luck or Idiotic...Only here in CC
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Re: Fighting cooks.

Postby skychaser on Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:19 pm

My friend. A cook is taken as someone who didn't win enough to get a higher rank. Only that.
It may be that not all cooks "play bad" but if they don't win enough times to get a higher rank then that must mean something.
Then there is farmers, off course, people who only play with high rankers tend to have a high rank and not everyone in high ranks is a good player. There's a chance that some high ranked dude has low skills but there's much lesser chance a cook play this game right.
And by right I mean. With victory in mind, methodically.

I play against cooks almost all of my matches, and cadets and such cause I only play 12 players sequential escalating foggy games. Because it's the hard mode here. I know about cooks.
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