Das Schloss, dropping bonus

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Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby Gillipig on Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:06 am

How big of a chance do you give yourself if your opponent drops a bonus in 1v1? Dropping a bonus in Das Schloss is a huge advantage, do you pretty much give up hope winning the game, or do you still think you have a reasonable chance?
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby betiko on Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:37 am

Gillipig wrote:How big of a chance do you give yourself if your opponent drops a bonus in 1v1? Dropping a bonus in Das Schloss is a huge advantage, do you pretty much give up hope winning the game, or do you still think you have a reasonable chance?


be more specific. start first or second, trench or not and the type of spoils, your drop, and the absence of your enemy in another bonus area. Depending on al those criterias I'd say it can go from <5% to >50%
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby Gillipig on Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:46 pm

betiko wrote:
Gillipig wrote:How big of a chance do you give yourself if your opponent drops a bonus in 1v1? Dropping a bonus in Das Schloss is a huge advantage, do you pretty much give up hope winning the game, or do you still think you have a reasonable chance?


be more specific. start first or second, trench or not and the type of spoils, your drop, and the absence of your enemy in another bonus area. Depending on al those criterias I'd say it can go from <5% to >50%

FFS, use your brain and answer the question the way your interpret it! There are dozens of different setting combinations that make the game play out differently. I won't list all the different types of games and ask everyone's opinion on each one. That's stupid. Instead of brainfarting, maybe you should do something like this:
A normal person wrote:I think it's harder to recover from a game with escalating spoils than without spoils, I lose most of the games when my opponent drops a bonus, not sure which percentage I have.
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby Jippd on Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:07 pm

I'd say it would be rare to recover from an opponent dropping the bonus.

If it was sunny you should definitely be screwed. If it is foggy and you know the map better than the other player then you MIGHT have a chance.

I never give up in any of my games so to answer your question even if I was behind and they dropped the bonus I would play it out til they win.

I have a decent record coming back and winning with an opponent starting with the bonus, but they are always people that don't know the map as well as me.
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby Gillipig on Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:44 pm

Jippd wrote:I'd say it would be rare to recover from an opponent dropping the bonus.

If it was sunny you should definitely be screwed. If it is foggy and you know the map better than the other player then you MIGHT have a chance.

I never give up in any of my games so to answer your question even if I was behind and they dropped the bonus I would play it out til they win.

I have a decent record coming back and winning with an opponent starting with the bonus, but they are always people that don't know the map as well as me.

The reason I came to think about all this is that I just won a game where my opponent dropped a bonus, and I'm about to win a second one. Quite rare to have two consecutive games where your opponent drops bonuses, and even rarer to end up winning both I'd imagine. I've always counted my chances of winning when I'm being dropped against slim, but now I feel like I have to reevaluate. Like you said it does matter a lot who you're meeting.
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby betiko on Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:42 pm

Gillipig wrote:
betiko wrote:
Gillipig wrote:How big of a chance do you give yourself if your opponent drops a bonus in 1v1? Dropping a bonus in Das Schloss is a huge advantage, do you pretty much give up hope winning the game, or do you still think you have a reasonable chance?


be more specific. start first or second, trench or not and the type of spoils, your drop, and the absence of your enemy in another bonus area. Depending on al those criterias I'd say it can go from <5% to >50%

FFS, use your brain and answer the question the way your interpret it! There are dozens of different setting combinations that make the game play out differently. I won't list all the different types of games and ask everyone's opinion on each one. That's stupid. Instead of brainfarting, maybe you should do something like this:
A normal person wrote:I think it's harder to recover from a game with escalating spoils than without spoils, I lose most of the games when my opponent drops a bonus, not sure which percentage I have.


the one that needs to use his brain is yourself, I answered your question.
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby Gillipig on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:27 pm

betiko wrote:
Gillipig wrote:
betiko wrote:
Gillipig wrote:How big of a chance do you give yourself if your opponent drops a bonus in 1v1? Dropping a bonus in Das Schloss is a huge advantage, do you pretty much give up hope winning the game, or do you still think you have a reasonable chance?


be more specific. start first or second, trench or not and the type of spoils, your drop, and the absence of your enemy in another bonus area. Depending on al those criterias I'd say it can go from <5% to >50%

FFS, use your brain and answer the question the way your interpret it! There are dozens of different setting combinations that make the game play out differently. I won't list all the different types of games and ask everyone's opinion on each one. That's stupid. Instead of brainfarting, maybe you should do something like this:
A normal person wrote:I think it's harder to recover from a game with escalating spoils than without spoils, I lose most of the games when my opponent drops a bonus, not sure which percentage I have.


the one that needs to use his brain is yourself, I answered your question.

A counter question is not an answer, it's a question regarding a question.
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby betiko on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:59 pm

Gillipig wrote:
betiko wrote:
Gillipig wrote:
betiko wrote:
Gillipig wrote:How big of a chance do you give yourself if your opponent drops a bonus in 1v1? Dropping a bonus in Das Schloss is a huge advantage, do you pretty much give up hope winning the game, or do you still think you have a reasonable chance?


be more specific. start first or second, trench or not and the type of spoils, your drop, and the absence of your enemy in another bonus area. Depending on al those criterias I'd say it can go from <5% to >50%

FFS, use your brain and answer the question the way your interpret it! There are dozens of different setting combinations that make the game play out differently. I won't list all the different types of games and ask everyone's opinion on each one. That's stupid. Instead of brainfarting, maybe you should do something like this:
A normal person wrote:I think it's harder to recover from a game with escalating spoils than without spoils, I lose most of the games when my opponent drops a bonus, not sure which percentage I have.


the one that needs to use his brain is yourself, I answered your question.

A counter question is not an answer, it's a question regarding a question.
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby Just_essence on Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:18 pm

Above 50%? I'd say that's a bit large, but it is possible, I guess.
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby Gillipig on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:38 am

Just_essence wrote:Above 50%? I'd say that's a bit large, but it is possible, I guess.

You have officially never played the map! If you want to pose as a new member should not go around commenting on strategy for maps you've never (on this account) played.
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby GoranZ on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:05 am

Gillipig wrote:How big of a chance do you give yourself if your opponent drops a bonus in 1v1? Dropping a bonus in Das Schloss is a huge advantage, do you pretty much give up hope winning the game, or do you still think you have a reasonable chance?

If the opponent has a bonus it doesn't mean that he will win. He has advantage but that is limited since you should be able to get a bonus quickly also... But if you chose to wait long time then you increase your chances of losing.
There is another aspect that needs to be looked into. Where the opponent has his bonus... Having a bonus in the airport mainly is much better then in the castle.

Chance for wining are reasonable, despite opponents bonus. There are many examples where one player had a bonus and he didn't win...
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby betiko on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:09 am

and I think that in trench starting first is more determinant that starting second with a bonus...
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby Gillipig on Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:59 am

GoranZ wrote:
Gillipig wrote:How big of a chance do you give yourself if your opponent drops a bonus in 1v1? Dropping a bonus in Das Schloss is a huge advantage, do you pretty much give up hope winning the game, or do you still think you have a reasonable chance?

If the opponent has a bonus it doesn't mean that he will win. He has advantage but that is limited since you should be able to get a bonus quickly also... But if you chose to wait long time then you increase your chances of losing.
There is another aspect that needs to be looked into. Where the opponent has his bonus... Having a bonus in the airport mainly is much better then in the castle.

Chance for wining are reasonable, despite opponents bonus. There are many examples where one player had a bonus and he didn't win...

This needs to be pointed out. If you drop a bonus in the airport, your opponent has to take down at least 9 neutral troops to even see one of your regions, and then he most likely have to take down more than one of them to avoid that you counterattack next turn. If you drop in the castle however, it's likely that he only has to take down 6 troops before he sees on of your regions, and then only has to take down one region to avoid an immediate counterattack. You could of course have a stack waiting for him nearby and might be able to counterattack the next turn anyway, but the same can be said for the airfield.
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby GoranZ on Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:16 pm

Gillipig wrote:
GoranZ wrote:
Gillipig wrote:How big of a chance do you give yourself if your opponent drops a bonus in 1v1? Dropping a bonus in Das Schloss is a huge advantage, do you pretty much give up hope winning the game, or do you still think you have a reasonable chance?

If the opponent has a bonus it doesn't mean that he will win. He has advantage but that is limited since you should be able to get a bonus quickly also... But if you chose to wait long time then you increase your chances of losing.
There is another aspect that needs to be looked into. Where the opponent has his bonus... Having a bonus in the airport mainly is much better then in the castle.

Chance for wining are reasonable, despite opponents bonus. There are many examples where one player had a bonus and he didn't win...

This needs to be pointed out. If you drop a bonus in the airport, your opponent has to take down at least 9 neutral troops to even see one of your regions, and then he most likely have to take down more than one of them to avoid that you counterattack next turn. If you drop in the castle however, it's likely that he only has to take down 6 troops before he sees on of your regions, and then only has to take down one region to avoid an immediate counterattack. You could of course have a stack waiting for him nearby and might be able to counterattack the next turn anyway, but the same can be said for the airfield.


Read everything what I said, not just what looks dangerous. Having a bonus from the start in DS is not a guarantee for victory, never was, never will be. How that 3 extra units will be used is something else.
Generally we all want bonus from the start, not just in DS but in bunch of other maps, but although those bonuses give some advantage they mainly don't determine the winner.
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby AslanTheKing on Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:28 pm

In das schloss having a bonus first leads to a victory in most cases,

unless somebody is unexperienced, or somebody misclicks, or if someone cant take his turn, or u can trade with 3
and have amazing rolls,

other than that, as soon u have a bonus, u win
I used to roll the daizz
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby anonymus on Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:05 pm

dropping a bonus on das schloss 2 experienced players the one with a dropped bonus will win 19 out of 20
but then again starting das schloss 2 experienced players whoever starts will win 3 out of 5.. its as good as it gets 1v1 id say.. ww2 poland being the possible exception (although starting is key there aswell).. 1v1 just isnt very balanced on any map.. and starting vs a bonus is pretty much bad news.. it CAN be overcome on das scholss if you go first and take a shitload of areas round 1 and the guy with dropped bonus go 2nd.. i had a game like that recently, but pretty rare even if you know what you are doing..

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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby Gillipig on Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:45 am

This topic is supposed to be dead! Don't open topics without adding anything narnia-dude
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby GoranZ on Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:14 pm

AslanTheKing wrote:In das schloss having a bonus first leads to a victory in most cases,

unless somebody is unexperienced, or somebody misclicks, or if someone cant take his turn, or u can trade with 3
and have amazing rolls,

other than that, as soon u have a bonus, u win


Well your stats in Das Schloss say that what you say has little or no value. Points: -217 Ratio: 14 from 45(31%)

What I say on the other hand has huge value according to my stats. Points +629 Ratio: 114 from 163(70%). Having a bonus from the start doesn't mean that you will win.

Now when we are at 1v1, recently I had 5 games vs experienced DS player, we both started with bonuses in two different games, and we both lost them.
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby anonymus on Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:11 am

GoranZ wrote:
AslanTheKing wrote:In das schloss having a bonus first leads to a victory in most cases,

unless somebody is unexperienced, or somebody misclicks, or if someone cant take his turn, or u can trade with 3
and have amazing rolls,

other than that, as soon u have a bonus, u win


Well your stats in Das Schloss say that what you say has little or no value. Points: -217 Ratio: 14 from 45(31%)

What I say on the other hand has huge value according to my stats. Points +629 Ratio: 114 from 163(70%). Having a bonus from the start doesn't mean that you will win.

Now when we are at 1v1, recently I had 5 games vs experienced DS player, we both started with bonuses in two different games, and we both lost them.


her her.. i dont know my maprank on das schloss but i know i kick ass..
TRENCH dropped bonus for opposition who starts!

i dont claim that i wasnt lucky to pull this off but 3 mistakes where made by opponent and i put all on one card to exploit it each time.. and round 20 it worked!

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=12605477

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Edit: only 454+ but still

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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby ViperOverLord on Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:15 am

Gillipig wrote:How big of a chance do you give yourself if your opponent drops a bonus in 1v1? Dropping a bonus in Das Schloss is a huge advantage, do you pretty much give up hope winning the game, or do you still think you have a reasonable chance?


It depends a lot upon the opponent. With fog and inexperienced player, I'd still give msyelf a roughly 50 percent chance or more. Even against a skilled player, I still have a relatively decent shot. Frankly, it's one of the maps where you're less screwed if your opponent starts with bonus. That's due to the amount of neutrals and auto deploys.
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby Dukasaur on Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:50 am

What is this, War of the Cat People?

Image vs. Image vs. Image.


Oh, and just for good measure, we have
Image


So maybe it's Escape Day at the Zoo!
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby Gillipig on Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:45 am

Dukasaur wrote:What is this, War of the Cat People?

Image vs. Image vs. Image.


Oh, and just for good measure, we have
Image


So maybe it's Escape Day at the Zoo!

You can't beat a domestic cat in an argument so you might just as well give me the win right here and now. Have you ever heard me and my species at night? We can go on for hours! I'm telling you man, hours!! Don't believe me? I'll be outside your window tonight and show you how we roll!

Click image to enlarge.
image
AoG for President of the World!!
I promise he will put George W. Bush to shame!
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby AslanTheKing on Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:48 pm

Dukasaur wrote:What is this, War of the Cat People?

Image vs. Image vs. Image.


Oh, and just for good measure, we have
Image


So maybe it's Escape Day at the Zoo!


Out of curiosity i checked the Zoostats
Lion vs Tiger
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=11678105&full_log=Y
Lion vs. Miaou
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=12151458&full_log=Y
Lion vs. Viper
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=11479140&full_log=Y
vs Viper i received even a Medal =D> =D> =D>

GoranZ wrote:
AslanTheKing wrote:In das schloss having a bonus first leads to a victory in most cases,
unless somebody is unexperienced, or somebody misclicks, or if someone cant take his turn, or u can trade with 3
and have amazing rolls,other than that, as soon u have a bonus, u win


Well your stats in Das Schloss say that what you say has little or no value. Points: -217 Ratio: 14 from 45(31%)
.


Well Gorane, u can check now the statistics of those games . :lol:
and since u just look at statistics, how come i made it to the semifinals of das schloss
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=185464
Last edited by AslanTheKing on Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
I used to roll the daizz
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby t4mcr53s2 on Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:32 pm

go get them, aslan
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Re: Das Schloss, dropping bonus

Postby AslanTheKing on Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:56 am

And soon ( 15 rds to go) i will get a nice shiny Das Schloß Tournament Medal,
that much about statistics.
I used to roll the daizz
Feel the fear in my enemy´s eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:

Long live the Army Of Kings !


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