Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

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Postby stringybeany on Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:33 pm

draft 3 on the way
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Postby rabbiton on Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:08 pm

stringybeany wrote:
rabbiton wrote:...

it would be far easier to write this for non-beginners.


Perhaps. But that's not where the need exists.


of course not, and i was merely indicating the difficulty of the task. thinking about it though it really might make more sense to compile a set of guidelines for how the better players play, and then include heavy caveats indicating the need to adapt to "non-conforming" play.

otherwise, you just risk codifying bad strategy... such as "on your first move deploy 3 somewhere and attack". that would be the exception in a high rank game, not the rule, because a general principle is to spread your forces out.
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Postby stringybeany on Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:11 am

rabbiton wrote:...

otherwise, you just risk codifying bad strategy... such as "on your first move deploy 3 somewhere and attack". that would be the exception in a high rank game, not the rule, because a general principle is to spread your forces out.


Dropping three and attacking immediately will yield a card the majority of the time without leaving the player weak (as long as they follow the attacking guidelines).

Starting off with advanced strategies will leave a new player disappointed, I believe.


Priorities in this context are:

Always get a card.
Don't be the weakest player on the board.
Stay out of the small continents, unless you are dropped there in a big way.

I don't believe we should be so concerned about "codifying bad strategies" because in this context they aren't bad strategies. Players need to adjust their strategies as they move up the ranks. What works at the beginning is the effective strategy for that level.
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Postby chessplaya on Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:27 am

Btw to all beginners that are going to read this thread i have an important notice :

The strategies used there are only to be played when its a 6 players game... 4 players and 5 players are a whole lot diffrent... try playing those strategies and u will be eaten alive... plz take notice that ur entering a 6 players game


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Postby stringybeany on Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:34 am

It's simple:

In the beginner's game; maps change too fast for effective multi-turn planning. Somebody will always make a premature roll-off . . . and most likely more than one.

So stay out of the way, take your cheap card, and don't let anyone run away with the board while you wait for the cash rounds.

Especially that last one. The beginner strategy of going for a weak continent grab will work if the board lets it hold.

Don't reinforce bad behavior by letting it work.
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Postby jaydog on Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:55 am

keep up the good work guys, solid tactics and fair discussion on alternatives,

I can't believe i just sat and read all 5 pages.

If someone could post the best and easiest way to smash scottland in a RT game let me know.

But seriouly, do you long timers and RT allstars use a different or altered strategy for RT escalating games?
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Postby stringybeany on Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:25 am

jaydog wrote:keep up the good work guys, solid tactics and fair discussion on alternatives,

I can't believe i just sat and read all 5 pages.

If someone could post the best and easiest way to smash scottland in a RT game let me know.

But seriouly, do you long timers and RT allstars use a different or altered strategy for RT escalating games?


I employ no single overall strategy. Every board is unique. Some games I've had to change my approach several times, or even every round (usually means a loss/occasionally means a memorable victory).
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Postby puppydog85 on Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:49 am

Hi, I am a beginner and I have a quick question. When fortifying in rounds 3-5, should I start moving my armies into piles? I my current game I have a chain 6 countries long and it is not unlimited fort. Should I start looking around and fortify at one end, both ends, or just leave it?
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Postby stringybeany on Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:03 pm

puppydog85 wrote:Hi, I am a beginner and I have a quick question. When fortifying in rounds 3-5, should I start moving my armies into piles? I my current game I have a chain 6 countries long and it is not unlimited fort. Should I start looking around and fortify at one end, both ends, or just leave it?


It depends on the need. In general, you will want to have your forces gathered up for the elimination rounds, just make sure the singles you leave behind you can do without. If your six countries are chained, if you pull from the middle somebody will likely cut the chain on you.

Then again it might not matter.

I wish I could be more specific, but there are too many variables to give you a concrete "do this" answer.
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Postby bob72 on Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:28 am

Round One:

A: Pick one country in a large continent that is close to other countries you own and deploy there. Roll dice once against opponent of your choice, but try and attack towards your other countries. Only deploy in South America or Australia if you already own three or four countries on the continent.

After first roll if you are 6 vs 1 or 5 vs. 2, roll again. If you are 4 vs 3 then STOP and end turn.

After the second roll you will own the country, be 3 vs 2, or 4 vs 1. Only roll a third time of you are 4 vs 1. otherwise STOP and end turn.

If you lose the third roll, and are 3 vs 1, STOP and end turn.

This = me in most games.

My usual roll is 6v4 lose 2 4v4 lose 2 stop Round 2 armies are gone. (should have kept attacking.)

I must argue against this if you stop at 4v3 you will be EXTREMELY lucky to have any armies left next turn. If at turn 2 you still haven't won and are EXTREMELY lucky to have any armies left don't expect to have them at round 3. By round 3 this is getting silly your armies will be gone and someone will have a continent and be 10-15 armies ahead of you.
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Postby stringybeany on Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:04 pm

bob72 wrote: I must argue against this if you stop at 4v3 you will be EXTREMELY lucky to have any armies left next turn. If at turn 2 you still haven't won and are EXTREMELY lucky to have any armies left don't expect to have them at round 3. By round 3 this is getting silly your armies will be gone and someone will have a continent and be 10-15 armies ahead of you.


I don't follow you. Sorry. Maybe you could explain further?
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Postby Scott-Land on Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:31 pm

jaydog wrote:keep up the good work guys, solid tactics and fair discussion on alternatives,

I can't believe i just sat and read all 5 pages.

If someone could post the best and easiest way to smash scottland in a RT game let me know.

But seriouly, do you long timers and RT allstars use a different or altered strategy for RT escalating games?


You've beaten me enough on your own J-Dog.

A few difference I see in an RT versus a regular game is not strategy related. In an RT- you get to see each turn progress and get into a flow of things a better feel and know exactly your opponents next move, whereas you find yourself writing more notes in regular games to keep up with the action, sometimes not taking a turn for days.

For me it's less emotional- you see yourself getting attacked in an RT, you might let emotion get in the way and make a poor play (kami). It's better in regular games because you only see the end result, not the actual attack, and have some time to cool off if you think an attack is unwarranted. Sometimes not even knowing a country of 5+ has been smoked. I stress the importance of writing notes in game chat. More times than not- the reason you were attacked is very clear. To understand why, you have a better chance at a counter.

The turns are generally more aggressive but at the same time- thin kill shots are taken more in regular games than in RTs, perhaps because there are not 4-5 other players watching you screw the game up.
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Postby Rictus on Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:17 am

Scott-Land wrote:
jaydog wrote:keep up the good work guys, solid tactics and fair discussion on alternatives,

I can't believe i just sat and read all 5 pages.

If someone could post the best and easiest way to smash scottland in a RT game let me know.

But seriouly, do you long timers and RT allstars use a different or altered strategy for RT escalating games?


You've beaten me enough on your own J-Dog.

A few difference I see in an RT versus a regular game is not strategy related. In an RT- you get to see each turn progress and get into a flow of things a better feel and know exactly your opponents next move, whereas you find yourself writing more notes in regular games to keep up with the action, sometimes not taking a turn for days.

For me it's less emotional- you see yourself getting attacked in an RT, you might let emotion get in the way and make a poor play (kami). It's better in regular games because you only see the end result, not the actual attack, and have some time to cool off if you think an attack is unwarranted. Sometimes not even knowing a country of 5+ has been smoked. I stress the importance of writing notes in game chat. More times than not- the reason you were attacked is very clear. To understand why, you have a better chance at a counter.

The turns are generally more aggressive but at the same time- thin kill shots are taken more in regular games than in RTs, perhaps because there are not 4-5 other players watching you screw the game up.


Interesting points - it's early days yet for me, but I'm definitely performing better in RT games than in regular ones at the moment - I find it far easier to follow the flow of the game and formulate and execute strategy. You're advice on making notes is well taken - obvious, yet I hadn't thought of it before. Thanks for that. Good guide also - certainly got me thinking. Hopefully it'll help me improve rank a bit... :)
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Postby stringybeany on Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:04 am

Scott-Land wrote:...

The turns are generally more aggressive but at the same time- thin kill shots are taken more in regular games than in RTs, perhaps because there are not 4-5 other players watching you screw the game up.


Let's talk more about kill-shots.

In your opinion:

When does a "thin kill-shot" look more like "suicide"?

How thin a shot are you generally willing to try?

As for me, I rarely shoot if under nominal. I might hedge a bit if the elimination clearly leads to a sweep, or if the timing is "now or never", but even then it's unlikely I'll go if more than about 5% under minimum strength going in.

Nominal +5% and I'm going to go.

*disclaimer: your results may vary. stringybeany's actual game play will vary. user assumes all Risk.
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Postby Scott-Land on Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:35 pm

stringybeany wrote:
Scott-Land wrote:...

The turns are generally more aggressive but at the same time- thin kill shots are taken more in regular games than in RTs, perhaps because there are not 4-5 other players watching you screw the game up.


Let's talk more about kill-shots.

In your opinion:

When does a "thin kill-shot" look more like "suicide"?

How thin a shot are you generally willing to try?

As for me, I rarely shoot if under nominal. I might hedge a bit if the elimination clearly leads to a sweep, or if the timing is "now or never", but even then it's unlikely I'll go if more than about 5% under minimum strength going in.

Nominal +5% and I'm going to go.

*disclaimer: your results may vary. stringybeany's actual game play will vary. user assumes all Risk.



It's normally pretty easy to determine if it's a kami or a kill shot. Recently in a game. I had 5 cards and 42 armies on 4 fronts when the cash was at 15. A player cashed and attacked me and I had 14 armies remaining afterwards. A clear kami disguised as a kill shot. A lower ranked- I would've questioned his motive but this was a captain taking revenge from a previous game. Let's say that he was successful in eliminating me- he burned 42+ armies to get 15 in return with 6 cards. With 1 cash and 4 cards he would have the lowest army count. Two players with 5 cards would cash and easily kill him and win the game. Even with a double since the cash was so low- he wouldn't had enough armies to continue. Cashes and deploys so he wouldn't get eliminated and would have 1 card and no realistic chance of winning the game anyhow.

A great player will only eliminate a someone if he can clear the board- or gain a big advantage by losing a small percentage of their armies on a kill shot to gain an extra card. You lose 25 armies and receive 20 from a cash but your next turn with the extra card you are able to cash and receive 35 armies giving you another opportunity to clear the board but you must always know how many cards the players have behind you and can they reach you if they can cash. The problem with this is that you if you leave yourself too short- you in turn will be eliminated. Kami or suicide doesn't happen very often. it's usually someone taking a bad shot or a noob attacking because you're too close- an unintentional hanging (that happens quite often).

Kill shots are risk to reward. Depending on the reward the risk may be worth it. As in poker, it's called implied odds. You make a call with a marginal hand hoping to catch to get paid off. You don't make the call if someone doesn't have a lot of chips- but if he has a mountain of them you are willing to gamble with the potential of breaking him. This applies to risk as well. If you know that you can win the game by winning a marginal battle ( ex 18 vs 15 ) then it's worth it. You've given yourself the big pay off, a victory. You have to ask yourself what will you gain if you are successful? The answer will determine if it's correct to do it. We tend not to listen to reason and that's where mistakes are made. I can go into attack percentages but think that would be a waste of time. I'm trying to answer your questions as general as I can.

Obviously hedging can be an advantage if you win the battle but it also can prevent you from being successful on other fronts, whereas you would've won anyway with fewer armies but since you hedged, you might lose a battle where you could've won with more armies. It's a way of covering yourself when you know that your percentage of success is low. Otherwise why would you hedge a specific front, perhaps because you don't have enough armies. This is a beginners thread to escalating games- it's not wise to advise them to go for eliminations where they don't have enough armies.
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Postby stringybeany on Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:32 am

You should explain "hedging", and yes we are definitely getting beyond the beginner level in the discussion. I suppose we should start a new thread.

I began this process with the idea of having a series of sticky topics aimed at helping newcomers through the common trials and tribulations they face here.

I'd still like to see it happen.
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Postby comic boy on Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:25 am

You are joking I assume, what on earth qualifies you to give advice on elite escalating games, you seem clueless against decent players :lol:
On top of that you throw your toys out of your pram every time somebody disagrees with you,some teacher !
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Postby stringybeany on Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:27 am

comic boy wrote:You are joking I assume, what on earth qualifies you to give advice on elite escalating games, you seem clueless against decent players :lol:
On top of that you throw your toys out of your pram every time somebody disagrees with you,some teacher !


is this thread in flame wars? back off, kid. keep it in flame wars, that's what it's there for.
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Postby comic boy on Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:43 am

Would you care to post your record in 5/6 player escalating games :lol:
Think it rather proves the point that you are not terribly well qualified in this subject,thats relevent to the thread is it not ?
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Postby stringybeany on Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:32 am

comic boy wrote:Would you care to post your record in 5/6 player escalating games :lol:
Think it rather proves the point that you are not terribly well qualified in this subject,thats relevent to the thread is it not ?


No, it isn't. What's relevant to the thread is providing content to help beginners with their escalating game.

Again, if you have nothing to contribute to the discussion, take your flame elsewhere.
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Postby Scott-Land on Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:04 pm

stringybeany wrote:You should explain "hedging"


Like I've said- it doesn't apply to this thread. Kill shots should be with adequate armies. If you have to hedge a specific front in order to make the kill then you do not have enough armies to make the kill.

-To hedge a bet, to bet upon both sides; that is, after having bet on one side, to bet also on the other, thus guarding against loss. Any time you have two bets going that work against each other, one of them almost has to be a bad percentage.

-In finance, a hedge is an investment that is taken out specifically to reduce or cancel out the risk in another investment. Hedging is a strategy designed to minimize exposure to an unwanted business risk, while still allowing the business to profit from an investment activity.

-A hedge is a line of closely spaced shrubs and bushes, planted and trained in such a way as to form a barrier or to mark the boundary of an area.

or were you talking about bushes ?
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Postby stringybeany on Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:29 pm

Scott-Land wrote:
or were you talking about bushes ?


Hedging with regard to your previous post.
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Postby stringybeany on Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:34 pm

comic boy wrote:You are joking I assume, what on earth qualifies you to give advice on elite escalating games, you seem clueless against decent players :lol:


Show me where I've given advice on elite escalating games?

comic boy wrote:On top of that you throw your toys out of your pram every time somebody disagrees with you,some teacher !


Sure looks like flame bait to me . . . I'll be happy to discuss that part in flame wars if you must.

So how about contributing a little of your advice to beginners? Remember to keep it in context. You might want to start a new name and try out a few noob games though to remind yourself what they are all about. I think you might be a little far removed from the subject these days.
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Postby nagerous on Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:48 pm

Not sure if its been said but I find escalating most fun when you are playing it on terminator mode.
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Postby EmperorOfDaNorth on Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:38 pm

Not sure if its been said but I find escalating most fun when you are playing it on terminator mode.


Umm, I don't know if Terminator or not matters most in Escalating; after all especially in Escalating there's a healthy focus on taking others out anyway; you need their cards after all.

Now, No-Cards games I completely DONT play UNLESS it was a terminator; If no-cards games are NOT terminator then they typically proceed similar to a paint-drying contest.

But yeah, I like Terminator games in general; you get some benfit for your efforts even if you don't end up winning the game. Heck, it's even possible to come away with MORE points than the person winning the game.[/quote]
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