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Postby stringybeany on Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:32 am

You should explain "hedging", and yes we are definitely getting beyond the beginner level in the discussion. I suppose we should start a new thread.

I began this process with the idea of having a series of sticky topics aimed at helping newcomers through the common trials and tribulations they face here.

I'd still like to see it happen.
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Postby comic boy on Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:25 am

You are joking I assume, what on earth qualifies you to give advice on elite escalating games, you seem clueless against decent players :lol:
On top of that you throw your toys out of your pram every time somebody disagrees with you,some teacher !
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Postby stringybeany on Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:27 am

comic boy wrote:You are joking I assume, what on earth qualifies you to give advice on elite escalating games, you seem clueless against decent players :lol:
On top of that you throw your toys out of your pram every time somebody disagrees with you,some teacher !


is this thread in flame wars? back off, kid. keep it in flame wars, that's what it's there for.
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Postby comic boy on Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:43 am

Would you care to post your record in 5/6 player escalating games :lol:
Think it rather proves the point that you are not terribly well qualified in this subject,thats relevent to the thread is it not ?
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Postby stringybeany on Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:32 am

comic boy wrote:Would you care to post your record in 5/6 player escalating games :lol:
Think it rather proves the point that you are not terribly well qualified in this subject,thats relevent to the thread is it not ?


No, it isn't. What's relevant to the thread is providing content to help beginners with their escalating game.

Again, if you have nothing to contribute to the discussion, take your flame elsewhere.
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Postby Scott-Land on Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:04 pm

stringybeany wrote:You should explain "hedging"


Like I've said- it doesn't apply to this thread. Kill shots should be with adequate armies. If you have to hedge a specific front in order to make the kill then you do not have enough armies to make the kill.

-To hedge a bet, to bet upon both sides; that is, after having bet on one side, to bet also on the other, thus guarding against loss. Any time you have two bets going that work against each other, one of them almost has to be a bad percentage.

-In finance, a hedge is an investment that is taken out specifically to reduce or cancel out the risk in another investment. Hedging is a strategy designed to minimize exposure to an unwanted business risk, while still allowing the business to profit from an investment activity.

-A hedge is a line of closely spaced shrubs and bushes, planted and trained in such a way as to form a barrier or to mark the boundary of an area.

or were you talking about bushes ?
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Postby stringybeany on Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:29 pm

Scott-Land wrote:
or were you talking about bushes ?


Hedging with regard to your previous post.
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Postby stringybeany on Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:34 pm

comic boy wrote:You are joking I assume, what on earth qualifies you to give advice on elite escalating games, you seem clueless against decent players :lol:


Show me where I've given advice on elite escalating games?

comic boy wrote:On top of that you throw your toys out of your pram every time somebody disagrees with you,some teacher !


Sure looks like flame bait to me . . . I'll be happy to discuss that part in flame wars if you must.

So how about contributing a little of your advice to beginners? Remember to keep it in context. You might want to start a new name and try out a few noob games though to remind yourself what they are all about. I think you might be a little far removed from the subject these days.
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Postby nagerous on Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:48 pm

Not sure if its been said but I find escalating most fun when you are playing it on terminator mode.
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Postby EmperorOfDaNorth on Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:38 pm

Not sure if its been said but I find escalating most fun when you are playing it on terminator mode.


Umm, I don't know if Terminator or not matters most in Escalating; after all especially in Escalating there's a healthy focus on taking others out anyway; you need their cards after all.

Now, No-Cards games I completely DONT play UNLESS it was a terminator; If no-cards games are NOT terminator then they typically proceed similar to a paint-drying contest.

But yeah, I like Terminator games in general; you get some benfit for your efforts even if you don't end up winning the game. Heck, it's even possible to come away with MORE points than the person winning the game.[/quote]
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Postby EmperorOfDaNorth on Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:43 pm

Oh, and *** THANK YOU *** to StringyBeany for doing this discussion, even in the face of some person(s) having their time of the month or something and being nasty to you for no reason and while contributing nothing of their own.

Dont' agree with Stringy: GREAT!!! Please contribute how it's done better in your opinion.

That's what discussion is all about; anything else kindly take it to the flame subforum for composting.
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Postby Scott-Land on Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:40 pm

Hedging battles- there are many ways you can use this technique. Here is an example where not to do it.

You can hedge the easiest front making it more difficult so you can load on your other two, increasing your odds of succeeding where it's a dominant attack vs defend ratio. Let's say you have 3 to 2 attack ratio of 60 armies vs 40 defending on three fronts of 12,1,1 / 8,3 and/ 15 / For sake of argument I've counted the attack armies and the cash for a total of 60 attack ( not your total armies) armies. You can choose to fight those fronts at all 3:2 if you wish.
20 vs 12,1,1 (89%) / 17 vs 8,3 ( 87%) / 23 vs 15 (91%) or you can hedge 23 vs 15 and make it

18 vs 15 (73% ) / 19 vs 8,3 ( 93%) / 22 vs 12,1,1 (93%). This is a classic example not to hedge. I don't like attack win percentages to be that low. However sometimes you have no choice. But there are reasons why you would. For instance your dice have been horrible and you're scared shitless of hanging a player and really don't want to get to the final front and miss. Knowing that you made the first battle to fight the toughest so that if you do make it, the other 2 will be much easier and you will have a better percentage of success. If you get through the first one now you are confident in the final two. It's better to hang ( it's better not to hang anyone at all!) someone by taking a few of his armies rather than most of it. You miss by a few armies it's good night- most of the time your game and the haangee's is over. So if you lose the first one there's not extreme damage. Like I've said -- be careful when hedging .......... a lot of time you could've won without doing it .........it is a big risk.


I could've come up with more difficult scenarios but I chose the most simple one to try to explain- only because you asked me. Actually didn't want to explain it at all.
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Postby AAFitz on Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:00 pm

stringybeany wrote:
Scott-Land wrote:
or were you talking about bushes ?


Hedging with regard to your previous post.


I like the restraint you showed there...
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Postby EmperorOfDaNorth on Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:42 pm

I don't get it. What is hedging?

I do follow the part where you start with the most iffy battle and if that one succeeds then continue with the others to eliminate a player. And if it doesn't succeed, well, then it's a case of 'sit & pray' that you get another turn at the table.

So if I understand correctly, when things are tight you purposefully intend to make the first battle the hardest, then take it one throw at the time to see if it succeeds. When the first battle fails (or, becomes very unlikely to succeed all the way), then you stop?
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Postby stringybeany on Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:44 am

EmperorOfDaNorth wrote:I don't get it. What is hedging?


That's why I asked Scott to explain further, and he did so even though he didn't want to. Thanks Scott.


When the first battle fails (or, becomes very unlikely to succeed all the way), then you stop?


Yes
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Postby stringybeany on Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:53 am

AAFitz wrote:
stringybeany wrote:
Scott-Land wrote:
or were you talking about bushes ?


Hedging with regard to your previous post.


I like the restraint you showed there...


restraint from what, laughing at the joke? ok so it wasn't that funny but I thought it was funny enough to highlight.
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Postby Johnson O Tool on Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:27 pm

I would like to submit a classical example of how an Escalating game with not too advanced opponents is easily won.

For the example I'll use the Chinese Checkers map; don't worry, I know it's not the most popular map, but it *IS* a good example because all territories are the same size and worth the same bonus; so it's a very fair map in that there's not the initial imbalance of getting dropped on a 'good' continent or not: They're all the same.

So anyway, just as on any map, initially you try to get the f*ck out of heavily contested continents and deploy in less contested continents, for example Asia or North America on the classic map. For Chinese Checkers there's the stuff in the middle that's not even part of any continent or bonus, so it's the PERFECT place to hide and build.

Then you just watch as everyone squabbles over continents, while quietly building and getting easy cards. After 5 rounds, it looked like this, I'm Blue:

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I encircled my main positions.. This really is building up to the Perfect Storm.. Everyone busy grabbing their littler continent, and me building in the middle in a place that nobody wants, but with quick strike-action to just about any corner of the map.

Then of course the inevitable happened, but the chat made it even funnier, when Yellow says:

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It also happens he was weakest at that point, and with some nice cards.. So it made for a very statisfying reply:


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:D

Anyway, everyone else soon followed in the same turn.

Link to the game is here:

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Postby BaldAdonis on Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:17 am

This part is my favourite:
2007-11-02 11:51:53 - Jullekungfu: I have never seen that tactic before
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Postby Ditch on Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:03 pm

This guide has gotten me a 4-game win streak in 6-player classic escalating, I'm over 2000 points, and it almost seems too easy at times. Every game there's someone who suicides to get a continent or get cards early, and since the "can I eliminate this player" formula works the vast majority of the time it's possible to topple opponents like dominoes even when your first trade-in is only worth 6 units! I can't believe more people don't follow the guide, or at least use the strategies therein.

Thank you!
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Postby RobinJ on Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:51 pm

Johnson O Tool wrote:Then of course the inevitable happened, but the chat made it even funnier, when Yellow says:

Image

It also happens he was weakest at that point, and with some nice cards.. So it made for a very statisfying reply:


Image

:D

Anyway, everyone else soon followed in the same turn.

Link to the game is here:

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=1107429


I'd love to play some of those guys - obviously didn't have a clue about escalating
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Postby DiM on Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:02 pm

Ditch wrote:Every game there's someone who suicides to get a continent


somehow i manege to be a target for those darn suiciders.

i even had a guy that cashed a 30 army set deployed over his 10 in north africa and killed my 45 in south america with 10 troops remaining he then ignored my other undefended 3 terits in south america and moved back to fortify his africa borders. i had 5 cards and was preparing to storm the map. i had a clear target with 5 cards in europe and then it was all gonna be easy. instead i got killed by a guy that had 10 troops in north america. he killed me cashed 2 sets because of my cards then cleaned the map.

now the math. that guy lost 30 troops and killed 45 of mine just because i was getting a +2 from SA and i was a threat for him. :lol:
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Postby puppydog85 on Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:08 pm

I was a cadet when I first read this thread. Now, after following the advice (most of the time), I am a Sergeant and still climbing. Thanks Stringybeany!
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Postby EmperorOfDaNorth on Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:12 pm

You'll stop climbing soon after Sargeant though, because then you get to play with the big guys, who don't make the silly mistakes, AND actively try to block weaker players so you can't take them out easily anymore.

THen you have to rework that strategy and time your cards better and you find yourself in a position where you're cashing 40 cards and STILL can't take anyone out so then you find yourself AGAIN deploying strategically even with 40 %$*(#&$# bonus armies! :)

I think the intermediate step is to play games with SOME high ranking players but also some corporals mixed in.
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Re:

Postby ForgottenDuck on Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:45 am

EmperorOfDaNorth wrote:You'll stop climbing soon after Sargeant though, because then you get to play with the big guys, who don't make the silly mistakes, AND actively try to block weaker players so you can't take them out easily anymore.

THen you have to rework that strategy and time your cards better and you find yourself in a position where you're cashing 40 cards and STILL can't take anyone out so then you find yourself AGAIN deploying strategically even with 40 %$*(#&$# bonus armies! :)

I think the intermediate step is to play games with SOME high ranking players but also some corporals mixed in.


I can see what your saying, even at sergeant first class, I'm slowly starting to see players be less stupid... slowly :roll:
Looking at escalating games of much more skilled players, you can see that they start getting huge escalating card bonuses, and the game just goes on forever. So far with my rank I haven't even come close to what you would call a particularly long game. Theres usually at least one stupid person. :wink:

I don't play many escalating games but the few that I have this strategy has worked quite well.
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Re: Escalating for Beginners-go to page four

Postby ZawBanjito on Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:20 pm

The ZawBanjito guide to being good at escalating games:

STEP 1) Play escalating games like a moron.
STEP 2) Allow to sit in a well ventilated environment. Time may vary depending on ingredients.
STEP 3) Sequential: Stop playing with anyone still at Step 1. Freestyle: Play only with those still at Step 1. Both: You are Scott-Land.
STEP 4) Congratulations, you have thousands of points.
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