hellenic wars, bin it

[GoranZ]

Making the map SuperSize can give you more space between capitals. And additionally you can set all territories around a capital to be neutral with 5 units for example.

Just an idea that I don't know if it will work... You might wait for others opinion on this.

[Oneyed]

Making the map SuperSize can give you more space between capitals.

what I know the SuperSize is not allowed for any time.

And additionally you can set all territories around a capital to be neutral with 5 units for example.

Just an idea that I don't know if it will work... You might wait for others opinion on this.

I think not all regions around capitals must be set as neutral. there are at last 2 regions between capitals. just the problem is Athenai - Thebai and Sparta - Elis. so if Delion (D) between Athenai - Thebai and Mantineia between Sparta - Elis will be coded as neutral it could works...

yes, more opinions are welcome

another version with different colour scheme.

Click image to enlarge.

Oneyed

EDIT: it looks that imageshack anyway changed posted images. this one for example has pink tint... could anybody tell me about another site for posting images?
thanks.

[nolefan5311]

photobucket is a good one

[Oneyed]

thanks nolefan.

except independent regions and fleet there are 44 regions. 8 are capitals, so 36 to distribute between players. in 8 game = 4 and 4 neutrals. in 7 game = 4 and 8 neutrals. in 6 game = 5 and 6 neutrals. and so on...

now I can see one big problem: between Athenai and Thebai is only 1 region on both attack ways: Athenai - Delion - Thebai or Athenai - Megara - Thebai. so if both will start as 3 neutrals will this solve problem?

Click image to enlarge.

Oneyed

[Oneyed]

could we discus more about starting positions. there are some problems because some capitals are too close to each others. all Independent regions and all fleet will start as neutral in each game. than there could be at least 4 regions codded as neutrals. there is also idea about move some capitals and I am opened to this. but also historic view is important for me...

these 4 regions could start neutrals (3?) in each game.

Click image to enlarge.

big map

Click image to enlarge.

small map

Click image to enlarge.

PS: I still support Foundry protest (as shown my avatar), but I can work on my maps...

Oneyed

[koontz1973]

PS: I still support Foundry protest (as shown my avatar), but I can work on my maps...

this is your right.

OK, with the starting positions, have you gone through all of the options as it stands now?
Trapped territs - Have each of the capitals as a starting position with 10 troops on it. Capitals cannot attack or fort out so these ten troops are stuck there. Surrounding territs can attack the capitals so the losing condition can be applied. For this one though, you would need to get rid of the one territ starts and have random drops.

Move capitals - move the capitals to the legend like conquer rome. This gives more room for extra territs and another layer of gameplay.

Oneyed, as for the map, your legend is still too large. It is taking up to much room and can be shrunk (unless you move the capitals to it). This does need to be addressed.
The cutout, you do not need it. You have more than enough room on the map to draw it in. It will confuse some players, put others of playing the map, but for what ever reason, it is not needed. Please try to remove it. If you post a version with that area redrawn and it looks ugly, then fine, it can go back in.
Large map, did you just do a scale up of the small? If so, you will need to redraw the map from scratch as scaling up does not give good enough results. This is the reason we all start with the large.

[nolefan5311]

I don't like the idea of having capitals start with ten troops that cannot be used in any way other than to protect from the losing condition. The simple fix with the capitals is to make sure that each capital is the same distance from the closest capital. This might not be possible, so the other option is to make sure that the same number of neutrals is between the capitals (i.e., if two capitals have only one region between them like Myrcinos, then that region should have 4 neutrals, whereas if two capitals have two regions between them, make those two regions two neutrals each). It's a simple fix.

[koontz1973]

No, the +10 trapped was just an idea. Get the discussion flowing and try to see if we can get this map better.

[Oneyed]

this is your right.

yes. but reading RIP Foundry Avatars take my enthusiasm... unfortunately.

OK, with the starting positions, have you gone through all of the options as it stands now?
Trapped territs - Have each of the capitals as a starting position with 10 troops on it. Capitals cannot attack or fort out so these ten troops are stuck there. Surrounding territs can attack the capitals so the losing condition can be applied. For this one though, you would need to get rid of the one territ starts and have random drops.

I do not much like this idea.

Move capitals - move the capitals to the legend like conquer rome. This gives more room for extra territs and another layer of gameplay.

will think about this.

Oneyed, as for the map, your legend is still too large. It is taking up to much room and can be shrunk (unless you move the capitals to it). This does need to be addressed.

I do not think that legend is too large. I found several maps with alike legend. the point is that I can not use are where is legend - there is sea (and Crete which was not important).

The cutout, you do not need it. You have more than enough room on the map to draw it in. It will confuse some players, put others of playing the map, but for what ever reason, it is not needed. Please try to remove it. If you post a version with that area redrawn and it looks ugly, then fine, it can go back in.

believe me I tried this. there is not enough space there...

Large map, did you just do a scale up of the small? If so, you will need to redraw the map from scratch as scaling up does not give good enough results. This is the reason we all start with the large.

yes, large map is just enlarge small one. I will do new big one...

I don't like the idea of having capitals start with ten troops that cannot be used in any way other than to protect from the losing condition.

me too

The simple fix with the capitals is to make sure that each capital is the same distance from the closest capital.

much depends on how close to history we could be...

This might not be possible, so the other option is to make sure that the same number of neutrals is between the capitals (i.e., if two capitals have only one region between them like Myrcinos, then that region should have 4 neutrals, whereas if two capitals have two regions between them, make those two regions two neutrals each). It's a simple fix.

attacking 2 region with 2 neutrals is different as attacking one region with 4 neutrals, I think.

Get the discussion flowing and try to see if we can get this map better.

yes

thanks guys.

Oneyed

[nolefan5311]

This might not be possible, so the other option is to make sure that the same number of neutrals is between the capitals (i.e., if two capitals have only one region between them like Myrcinos, then that region should have 4 neutrals, whereas if two capitals have two regions between them, make those two regions two neutrals each). It's a simple fix.

attacking 2 region with 2 neutrals is different as attacking one region with 4 neutrals, I think.
Oneyed

It is, better odds attacking the 4 than twu 2's, but it was just a suggestion if you don't want to have the capitals the same amount of regions away from each other. If you want exactly identical attack odds, then you will need to do some math (and perhaps change the amount of troops that each capital begins with, etc).

[Oneyed]

ok. I changed positions of capitals. sometimes must history submit to gameplay

now no capitals are closer then 2 regions. and in each sea is only one capital too, so it looks balanced now.

Click image to enlarge.

Oneyed

[koontz1973]

Oneyed, here are a few points.

Your font size is small and in places is very hard to read/understand. This needs to be addressed.
You have abbreviations on the right but it is missing some. I know they are in the cut out but if you are going to have a key for abbreviations, they need to go in as well.
Lastly, get the large one done. You state you like to start with the small one for sizing, but you have got everything in and now is the time for the large one to be brought up to this level.

koontz

[cairnswk]

...
It would be nice to have a map that reflects the real strategic issues in the Pelo War. Good work!

Didn't Qwert do it well enough?

[Oneyed]

Your font size is small and in places is very hard to read/understand. This needs to be addressed.

I could try to add outer glow around font. especialy where is hard to read (borders...)

You have abbreviations on the right but it is missing some. I know they are in the cut out but if you are going to have a key for abbreviations, they need to go in as well.

you mean to emphasize it somehow?

...
It would be nice to have a map that reflects the real strategic issues in the Pelo War. Good work!

Didn't Qwert do it well enough?

qwert has maps with great themes and I like his maps. but to be candid here, no his Peloponnesian war does not show Greece dividing to two Leagues and does not show conflict between them.

Oneyed

[koontz1973]

Adding the glow may or may not work. It looks to be the font you are using, so you could either go for a new font or increase it by one size.
No, not to make the abbreviations stand out more, but to get all of them in. If you want a key for something, you need to fit all of the info in it. Not have it spread around the board. It just makes it easier to find.