Demons & Angels [7/2] Vacation please.

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Demons & Angels [7/2] Vacation please.

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:24 am

Map Name:Devils and Angels
Mapmaker(s):koontz1973
Number of Territories:120+
Special Features:None at the moment
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made:My first foray into fantasy map making and original. ;)

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Thoughts?
Last edited by koontz1973 on Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:18 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Devils and Angels [29/1]

Postby sannemanrobinson on Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:34 am

The title sounds like Angels and Demons ;).
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Re: Devils and Angels [29/1]

Postby natty dread on Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:47 am

Well, the theme is interesting... the graphics are, and I am sorry to say this... awful. I'd think you could do a bit better by now...

The general style of the map just looks like a bunch of christmas lights and pixelation. It's like all of the elements of the map are just clashing against each other... I know it's just an early draft, but I really think you could do a whole lot better if you just put some time into it.
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Re: Devils and Angels [29/1]

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:24 am

In what sense clashing? I can understand the title is a little garish and it will change as I need to make it smaller. In the way of pixelation, I do not see that as big a problem as I cannot see where it looks really bad (apart from the light territ). A small refinement of areas yes, but no way the overall look is pixelated. The icons for the lost and saved souls need to change as these ones are copyrighted. I tried to come up with a way to show them but it kept coming out cartoony which I do not want. Any ideas?

I love the Christmas lights comment, maybe we can get this as the sites new xmas map. :P
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Re: Devils and Angels [29/1]

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:32 am

I thought about Escher when I read the title

http://www.hnorthrop.com/escher.html

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Re: Devils and Angels [29/1]

Postby natty dread on Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:46 am

No, seriously... take this the best possible way... but I think you can do a LOT better on the graphics.

The graphics are just all around garish. The elements on the map don't fit together at all. You have the red-blue background with a knobbly textured look, then you have the photorealistic icons that look so pasted on it hurts. On top of that, you have region borders that looks like whipped cream from a can that went seriously wrong at some point... and then, the pixelation.

There definitely is no way to make pixelation look good, unless it's a consistent thematic effect on your map, kind of like on Conquer man. Here... no.

The dissolve effect on the devil and the angel? Scrap that. There's no way you're going to make it look good. It looks like pixel porridge. The "passable" parts of the region borders... that doesn't work either. Look, I know it's fun to experiment, and also important - without experimentation you can't develop as a graphician. But this is one experiment that went horribly wrong. Why not just cut holes in them instead of... whatever that is you have now.


Now, I realize a lot of this may sound overly harsh and I truly apologize for it. I just think, someone like you who already has one map in beta and two others on their way there, you should be well capable of creating much better quality of work. I'm only saying this because I know you have the potential, and I want to see that potential realized. All the more so since I think, thematically, this map could work and you could create an interesting map out of this.

I also realize this is just a first draft, but I believe in pointing out problems early.
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Re: Devils and Angels [29/1]

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:03 am

natty_dread wrote:No, seriously... take this the best possible way... but I think you can do a LOT better on the graphics.

The graphics are just all around garish. The elements on the map don't fit together at all. You have the red-blue background with a knobbly textured look, then you have the photorealistic icons that look so pasted on it hurts. On top of that, you have region borders that looks like whipped cream from a can that went seriously wrong at some point... and then, the pixelation.

There definitely is no way to make pixelation look good, unless it's a consistent thematic effect on your map, kind of like on Conquer man. Here... no.

The dissolve effect on the devil and the angel? Scrap that. There's no way you're going to make it look good. It looks like pixel porridge. The "passable" parts of the region borders... that doesn't work either. Look, I know it's fun to experiment, and also important - without experimentation you can't develop as a graphician. But this is one experiment that went horribly wrong. Why not just cut holes in them instead of... whatever that is you have now.


Now, I realize a lot of this may sound overly harsh and I truly apologize for it. I just think, someone like you who already has one map in beta and two others on their way there, you should be well capable of creating much better quality of work. I'm only saying this because I know you have the potential, and I want to see that potential realized. All the more so since I think, thematically, this map could work and you could create an interesting map out of this.

I also realize this is just a first draft, but I believe in pointing out problems early.

Some good points.
I know the colours are garish, I wanted that as a look. God knows what a battleground between the devils and gods minions would look like so some ley way here can be granted. For the colours, I chose red and blue as they naturally fit together but these can be refined. Any suggestions? The texture is there by design (as above) but any suggestions will be looked at. The angels and devil at the top I kind of like so will keep them for now. They are just pencil drawing on different layer modes to give the difference. The walls, I mean, how do you draw something that does not exist. I understand the whipped cream reference even though the colour is bloody weird for cream but I wanted an organic feel to it. No straight lines, sort of like an alien hive. Strange but familiar somehow. The blown out parts of the walls are just a dissolve filter and this needs to change. The icons are pasted effects. I said that previous post and asked for solutions.

I do see lots of problems with the current draft (and am refining it as we speak) but as this is my biggest map to date, it is always nice to get fresh eyes on the problems early. And with the GP, things like the wall layout may or will change, territs may or will change so I see no real reason to do lots of work this early and have it thrown away later.
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Re: Devils and Angels [29/1]

Postby natty dread on Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:19 am

koontz1973 wrote:I know the colours are garish, I wanted that as a look.


Well, want something else...

koontz1973 wrote:God knows what a battleground between the devils and gods minions would look like so some ley way here can be granted.


Sure, but what that means is you get to use your imagination on the graphics... it doesn't mean you can use it as an excuse for sloppy work.

koontz1973 wrote:For the colours, I chose red and blue as they naturally fit together but these can be refined. Any suggestions?


Yes. Ditch the red and blue. Go for a dark, ominous background, like something from a heavy metal album cover. Give it a gothic feel, instead of the disco fever you have now... You already have gothic fonts, just make the rest of the map fit them.

For the background, maybe something like black/very dark grey marble?

koontz1973 wrote:The angels and devil at the top I kind of like so will keep them for now. They are just pencil drawing on different layer modes to give the difference.


Keep them, but ditch the pixelation. I believe you have a dissolve mode somewhere in there, scrap that. It's not really useful for anything, it just results in pixelation.

If you go for a dark background, you could have give the angel & devil a sort of glowy look, like they're drawn with thin, glowy lines. Like they're set with silver and gold maybe? Something like that... just throwing ideas here.

koontz1973 wrote:The walls, I mean, how do you draw something that does not exist. I understand the whipped cream reference even though the colour is bloody weird for cream but I wanted an organic feel to it. No straight lines, sort of like an alien hive. Strange but familiar somehow.


It's kind of like spoiled cream maybe?

Anyway... I get what you're going for, but maybe you could scrap the walls alltogether, and just have the regions as sort of cavities, maybe make them look like they're impressed on the background, if you know what I mean... sort of like the army circles on my yugoslavia map.

Or, if you don't like that idea, just do the walls, but go easier on the bevels and such... make them fit in the general theme of the map.

koontz1973 wrote:The icons are pasted effects. I said that previous post and asked for solutions.


Try drawing something yourself, and make it in consistent style with the rest of the map - as soon as you figure out what that style is, I mean. The icons are the least of the concerns for now, I think you should first get the rest of the map in order and then figure out how to fit the icons in them.
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Re: Devils and Angels [29/1]

Postby Nesoi on Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:03 pm

Now THIS is new and different! Very interesting!


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Re: Devils and Angels [29/1]

Postby Gillipig on Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:46 am

I like the theme but I can't seem to find the starting pos.!
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Re: Devils and Angels [29/1]

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:48 am

Gillipig wrote:I like the theme but I can't seem to find the starting pos.!

All the territs that have no neutral on them start.
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Re: Devils and Gods [3/2] V2

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:59 am

Version 2
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Changed the walls.
Added bridges.
Changed the GP some.
Title change - angels to gods.
Icons drawn. Lost souls completely. Saved souls using the basic shape of previous one.
Moved things around.
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Re: Devils and Gods [4/2] V3

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:21 am

Got the legend finished and GP sorted.
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Re: Devils and Gods [4/2] V3

Postby natty dread on Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:42 am

I'm sorry but the graphics still don't convince me. I'm glad you got rid of the really horrible pixelated parts, but the colour scheme and the overall look is still all wrong...

Try something else than this glowy, gaudy look. Scrap the red/blue gradient and go for a dark, ominous look. Subtle, not flashy.
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Re: Devils and Gods [4/2] V3

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:22 am

natty_dread wrote:Try something else than this glowy, gaudy look. Scrap the red/blue gradient and go for a dark, ominous look. Subtle, not flashy.

The map is dark enough, the only light parts are the hells fire (will keep), text (will tone done) and the title (can tone done). The icons angels (need to be light) and devils (are dark enough).

As for the red/blue gradient, red is the devils colour and blue is seen as a colour of light (in a biblical sense). Tried it with white (what I originally went with) as this is universally seen as the colour of god but it come out more grey than white. I will make the two colours darker, but will keep them.
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