"Conquer Club Links" Golf (2013/3/9) Full Concept V3

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"Conquer Club Links" Golf (2013/3/9) Full Concept V3

Postby jonofperu on Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:51 pm

Map Name: Conquer Club Links (CC Links for short?)
Mapmaker(s): Jonofperu
Number of Territories: ??
Special Features: Playing for the lowest score per hole. Upgrading your golfer's skill. Golf carts get you around the course quickly. Sabotage your opponent and they get accused of cheating.
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made:
There have been a couple attempts at a golf map. These are the ones I've found:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=126087 2010
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=242&t=50632 2008
Apparently they petered out. I like the idea and I have several unique concepts I would like to add.
I'm working on another map that still has a ways to go, so this idea will probably progress slower, but I wanted to get it out there.

This is still in the concept stage, but here is the first full mockup.

Map Image: Full Concept V3
Click image to enlarge.
image

show: Concept V2

show: Concept V1


I think we should be able to make it work, but I'm concerned it could become too complex.
I have a feeling these specialty maps sound incredibly awesome to the mapmaker, but become hard to grasp for first-time players.
I've had a bunch of ideas on this and have been fiddling with them for a while but this is as cohesive as it's gotten so far. :D

Another concern is that I think you will have to understand the game of golf for the map to make sense... To the extent that some of the mechanics reflect the game, there just won't be enough space to explain what birdies and irons are.

Gameplay

OK, so the concept is you try to hold the fewest number of territories between the tee and the hole to get the lowest score and the biggest bonus.
I have a feeling that a map like this with many neutrals that offers a whole development scheme runs the BIG risk of people attacking each other rather than breaking into the neutrals for a bonus. (Similar to what I encountered on my other map). We can do several things to counter this:
1. make it really beneficial to get those bonuses (bigger bonuses)
2. separate players so they will be less likely to attack each other rather than the neutrals for the bonuses.
I could start players on the road next to each tee, and increase the neutral armies on the road.
3. Provide bonuses right away - I think this may be the key, but I haven't figured out how to do it yet. No way are players going to fight through several levels of golfer development and down a fairway to a green for a par or birdie bonus if they don't get any benefit until they complete that whole thing. Maybe that's the biggest drawback of this design.

I suppose I could stick to simpler mechanics and just play Risk on a map that looks like a golf course, but I just don't see the point. ;) So I'm going to keep looking for a way to make this work.

Cheating
The idea here is that an opponent could cut into a fairway you've conquered and instead of eliminating you, cut out some of the steps you took to get to the hole. This could create a situation where you would be "claiming an impossible score" like getting a hole-in-one on a par 5. -10 troops deploy for cheating! :lol:
Teamwork also comes into play. Teammates could eliminate a few of your territs thus giving you fewer strokes to the hole and a bigger bonus (so cheating and getting away with it??) =D>

Example on a par 5.
Without training your golfer, Blue OR White tee can attack the 200 yd marker (drive), from there you would attack the 300 (irons), 400, green, hole. (5 strokes for par)
Upgrades allow you to attack the 300 marker from the tees (Long drive),
attack the green from the 300 marker (Long irons),
and attack the hole directly when you would have attacked the green (Putting skill). So with Long Irons and Putting Skill you could attack the hole from the 300 mark.
It is therefore possible to score a 2 on this par 5 for a double eagle.
show: old bunker concept
Last edited by jonofperu on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Conquer Club Links" Golf (2013/1/2) Draft V2

Postby jonofperu on Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:18 pm

show: Show Image Draft V2

Update changes:
1. Moved starting spots to border tees. (I should have seen that change coming since I had to do the same thing on my other map LOL)
2. Added an extra neutral between starting spots (now 2).
3. Included a 2nd hole that is par 3.
4. Improved Legends

This shows how you could get a bonus of +6 after taking just 2 neutral 2s.
Maybe the problem of providing immediately available bonuses is solved?

A probable strategy is:
1. Snap up a Par 3
2. One-way attack the next player's starting spot and/or next hole's tees.
3. Go for a bigger bonus on a longer par hole.

Strategy Considerations:
If you attack another player's starting spot through the Golf Carts you open all your starting spots up to counter-attack.
If you stack and make the other player come to you through the neutrals and he goes for a quick Par 3 bonus, you will find yourself behind quickly.
You can gamble and go for a bigger bonus off the bat by taking the Putting Skill bonus and then attacking the hole directly on a Par 3. This would give you a hole-in-one for a total bonus deploy of +11.
I do think the potential for huge bonuses pretty quick means there has to be a viable counter-attack to balance things - especially in 1v1? It's unlikely, but possible a player could conquer the two 2s needed to grab a Par 3 birdie on his first turn by deploying 3 for a starting stack of 6. IF his 6 takes out the two 2s, he'll have a huge advantage. It would be practically impossible for the other player to come through the two neutral 3s to take the tee from him and break the bonus.

Spoiling another player's bonus: If you break into another player's hole you could simply conquer the territorys he's on, but you have at least 2 other options which might be more damaging!
1. You can take a different path down the fairway, forcing him to increase his strokes on that hole in order to eliminate your presence. (See Bonuses below for how to recover from this particular attack.)
2. You can frame him for cheating - on longer holes in particular you can leave him the tee and hole, but take out territories in between. He gets a -10 for cheating since he's "claiming" an impossible score.

Bonuses
Another path to a bonus is to take the whole hole for x2 the par for that hole. This may not make sense up front and maybe it's just bait to tempt undiscerning players into a bonus that isn't worth it at the start. BUT it's a way to recover if another player messes up your fairway and you have to take him out. If your Birdie or Eagle get's spoiled and becomes a double Bogie b/c you had to take out a couple enemy territories, you can take the remaining neutrals and get the whole hole bonus.
Will have to clarify that you can hold EITHER or BOTH tees for the whole hole bonus.
Might need to include negative bonuses for Bogies, etc.

Victory Conditions
Not sure if it will work - how to program it? All the variables might make it impossible.
I would probably have to include the feature that holding a whole hole counts as par for the victory condition.

Golfer Training window
I need to represent it graphically, but the starting spots in the Golfer Training window border all upgrade options. Each player's area does NOT border other players.
I haven't decided whether the lockers in the Clubhouse border the Golfer Training window.
IF NOT, someone can break through the n25 in the lobby and prevent you from upgrading any more, but can't take away upgrades already earned.
IF SO, it will be easier to eliminate a player by taking out their locker and Golfer Training troops. This would also create more options to frame an opponent for cheating. If you take out his upgrades he would have shots that are longer than they should be, etc. This would be a HUGE blow in a developed game since it would affect ALL the holes he's completed with upgraded abilities and could potentially change big bonuses into big negatives.

Attack lines/arrows
The map would look a lot cleaner without lines and arrows. Would it be sufficient to provide one example and say "Starting spots border both tees. Tees border fairway according to golfer abilities (with Long Drive they can attack farther). Holes one-way attack closest road territ and next tees."
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Re: "Conquer Club Links" Golf (2013/1/2) Draft V2

Postby TheJonah on Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:54 am

Like the idea jono. You could make it 18 by having two flags on one green. One for the front 9 and one for back 9. Different colour for a different bonus possibly.
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Re: "Conquer Club Links" Golf (2013/1/2) Draft V2

Postby jonofperu on Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:20 am

That's an interesting idea, might put too many big bonuses out there because you could just take another hole and multiply your bonus by 2.
I'm thinking maybe 3 versions of the map, kind of like Eurasia:
Mini-golf small map
9-hole standard map
18-hole supersize map
But let's make one at a time... ;)
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Re: "Conquer Club Links" Golf (2013/1/2) Draft V2

Postby TheJonah on Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:27 pm

I think 9 holes will be a supersized map anyway and the extra flag could be a +1. Could be an idea to draft a rough full version to gauge the size. Your mini golf could end up being standard size.
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Re: "Conquer Club Links" Golf (2013/1/2) Draft V2

Postby nicarus on Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:15 pm

you could make it a 9 hole par 3 course? that may free up some room
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Re: "Conquer Club Links" Golf (2013/1/2) Draft V2

Postby elonpuckhog on Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:17 pm

I like this idea! Looks good so far. I'm not sure everything envisioned can be programmed, but I look forward to it.
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Re: "Conquer Club Links" Golf (2013/1/2) Draft V2

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:49 am

jonofperu, couple of things, get the rest of the holes on quick. Half a map is not something people can comment on. But do not forget the other map here. Still waiting on the graphics to be completed on that one before a stamp.

Your scorecards are way to big. These can go to half size and this will give yo a lot more room to play with. I am confused about the club house. Can you explain what you want to do here? Lastly, lose the white, it hurts my eyes.
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Re: "Conquer Club Links" Golf (2013/1/2) Draft V2

Postby jonofperu on Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:52 am

hehe. Yeah, I'm trying to keep the other map as a priority, but fresh ideas are hard to ignore. Working on the river canyon with bridge thing.
I actually hand drew a map of a 9-hole course on an island but can't find it. Still hoping to get my hands on that before I draw up the whole thing.
Last night I made this huge post on here, but when I finally tried to submit it I lost it because my login had timed out. :cry:
I have a few ideas to simplify a couple things which I think will be really important for playability.
Don't worry, the graphics are pretty plain as it's just a concept at this stage.
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Re: "Conquer Club Links" Golf (2013/1/2) Draft V2

Postby jonofperu on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:31 pm

Working on a complete draft. Was traveling and have been swamped with work. Will try to get the draft up in the next week or two.
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Re: "Conquer Club Links" Golf (2013/1/2) Draft V2

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:22 am

[Moved]

Been a month and no update. Into ideas. Make an update and we can get this back on track for you.

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Re: "Conquer Club Links" Golf (2013/1/2) Draft V2

Postby jonofperu on Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:11 pm

Thanks, I understand.
Trying to get an update for Ziggurat out.
Next I want to finish a full draft for this. I've got one at about 70%, but still have to draw some holes.
My priorities will be
1. Get an update for Ziggurat out
2. Finish a full Links draft
3. Work for a Ziggurat stamp

I understand the month limitation, but please know I'm not going to give up on these maps, it's just going to be slow going for me with real life taking up too much of my life. LOL
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"Conquer Club Links" Golf (2013/3/9) Full Concept V3

Postby jonofperu on Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:15 am

Here is the first full-size concept for this map:
(Could we move it back to Drafting Room plz?)
Click image to enlarge.
image


Might be a bit confusing and I still need to fill in a lot of cart road territs, but maybe it's enough to comment on?

I removed the arrow from the previous concepts to make it cleaner but may need to figure out better ways to explain attack routes:

road/hole > tees > fairway > green > hole > road/tees

Any road territ <> Carts <> Lobby <> Lockers

I drew the first hole last and had to cross the path, so may need to rethink whether that works or needs to be moved.
The yacht is just there for looks for now.
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Re: "Conquer Club Links" Golf (2013/3/9) Full Concept V3

Postby jonofperu on Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:45 pm

Could we put this on vacation for 2 months? I'm excited about it, but I've got to keep Ziggurat the priority and I'm vacationing that one.
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Re: "Conquer Club Links" Golf (2013/3/9) Full Concept V3

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:08 pm

[Moved]

At the request of the mapmaker, this map has been moved to the melting pot. If the mapmaker wants to continue with the map, then one of the Cartographer Assistants will be able to help put the thread back into the Foundry system, after an update has been made. ;-)

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