Tank Battle (1v1?), update, page 4.

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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), update - 4.3. (Pg2)

Postby Oneyed on Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:34 pm

updated version with more explantations in legend.
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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), update - 4.3. (Pg2)

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:02 pm

Very nice update, I think we did a good step in the right direction here!
Oh btw, I didn't had an incredible long dinner, just I fell asleep on the couch after having it! :lol:

However, the new version makes everything more clear. Now bombardment are in most of cases clear and the legend helps more than the old "the direction of the cannon" system. ;)
A small advice. Looking at your bombardment schema and then at the rest of the map i do not see a tank that can bombard the square next to it, so maybe that indication in the legend can be refined a bit more because actually it sounds like tank can bombard like knights on chess. Specially if you look at G1T4-B1C4. Looking at the schema it seems that G1T4 is able to "circumvent" the barriers, see the spoiler
show

I understand your system...the tank is supposed to "advance" before to fire and so it will have to pass the barrier and it can't, but I bet many will complain because they thought bombardments was possible for the very same reason you can see on the image in the spoiler!

Then, change the font, the current one is small and very hard to read. About platoon flags i suggest you to use more visible colors: red-green-blue-yellow? or at least make the black one more visible.

Top legend, where you say "holding firing tower - impossible to bombard targets from platoon bombardable from this tower"...sorry what does it mean? maybe you mean that the tower can't bombard tanks that are part of the same platoon? So G1T3 can't bombard G1C4 because it's the same platoon?
And in that case you can have not clear situations, like G2T3 - G1C2, it's not the same platoon, but i think you don't want to make possible for the former to bombard the latter, right?
In that case isn't simpler to say that "you can bombard only enemy tanks"? obviously always following the rules explained into the legend.

Then, if all the "attacks" are just bombardments and this will be a 1vs1 map, i think you can hold max 2 platoons, right? In this case where you say +1 every 4 tanks you mean any 4 tanks? so maybe 2 G1 tanks and 2 G2 tanks? or do you mean +1 for 4 tanks of the same platoon? It doesn't change so much considering the total amount of troops you can receive, but it makes a big difference while you're playing, this because it's simpler to hold 4 random tanks than hold an entire platoon.

Finally, where you specify the conditional border, you can easily say that it's "valid only if you hold the platoon leader tank", being the tank made by a tower and a chassis. I think it's more clear than the current phrase.

Now, I seriously think it's time for me to go to sleep (i realized now that it's 3am :shock: ) and for this map it's time for a draft stamp and start to focus the discussion on gameplay. But the draft stamp is koontz business so I leave to him the final say on it!

Good work, i really think you're showing yourself as a very good mapmaker :)
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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), update - 4.3. (Pg2)

Postby Oneyed on Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:50 am

thenobodies80 wrote:Oh btw, I didn't had an incredible long dinner, just I fell asleep on the couch after having it! :lol:


:lol: it would be world record - 5 hours dinner :)
thenobodies80 wrote:A small advice. Looking at your bombardment schema and then at the rest of the map i do not see a tank that can bombard the square next to it, so maybe that indication in the legend can be refined a bit more because actually it sounds like tank can bombard like knights on chess. Specially if you look at G1T4-B1C4. Looking at the schema it seems that G1T4 is able to "circumvent" the barriers, see the spoiler
show

I understand your system...the tank is supposed to "advance" before to fire and so it will have to pass the barrier and it can't, but I bet many will complain because they thought bombardments was possible for the very same reason you can see on the image in the spoiler!


but my idea about bombardments is as you shown in spoiler. so you have this right, only barriers which are dirrect on the tanks side limit bombardments. I have idea how to change this, so tanks will not bombard from side, but again you have it right.
thenobodies80 wrote:Then, change the font, the current one is small and very hard to read. About platoon flags i suggest you to use more visible colors: red-green-blue-yellow? or at least make the black one more visible.


ok for both.
thenobodies80 wrote:Top legend, where you say "holding firing tower - impossible to bombard targets from platoon bombardable from this tower"...sorry what does it mean? maybe you mean that the tower can't bombard tanks that are part of the same platoon? So G1T3 can't bombard G1C4 because it's the same platoon?


no. I meant that, hm. example helps more as my poor English: G1T4 bombards B1T1, B1C1 but when you will hold GFT1 you can not bombard B1T1, B1C1 from G1T4.
thenobodies80 wrote:And in that case you can have not clear situations, like G2T3 - G1C2, it's not the same platoon, but i think you don't want to make possible for the former to bombard the latter, right?


yes. but I can not see problem that this should valids for both versions (1, can not bombard from platoon. 2, can not bombard from former.) everything depends what will be better for gameplay. what do you think?
thenobodies80 wrote:In that case isn't simpler to say that "you can bombard only enemy tanks"? obviously always following the rules explained into the legend.


it is mentioned in legend that Towers can bombard enemies Towers and Chassis. but the legend is the hardest thing from me, so I will follow all advices here :)
thenobodies80 wrote:Then, if all the "attacks" are just bombardments and this will be a 1vs1 map, i think you can hold max 2 platoons, right? In this case where you say +1 every 4 tanks you mean any 4 tanks? so maybe 2 G1 tanks and 2 G2 tanks? or do you mean +1 for 4 tanks of the same platoon? It doesn't change so much considering the total amount of troops you can receive, but it makes a big difference while you're playing, this because it's simpler to hold 4 random tanks than hold an entire platoon.


oops, my bad. there will be two bonuses:
+1 for ANY 4 tanks.
+3 for each Platoon
thenobodies80 wrote:Finally, where you specify the conditional border, you can easily say that it's "valid only if you hold the platoon leader tank", being the tank made by a tower and a chassis. I think it's more clear than the current phrase.


ok.
thenobodies80 wrote:Good work, i really think you're showing yourself as a very good mapmaker :)


thanks, but there is long way infront of me :)

thanks nobodies.

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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), update - 4.3. (Pg2)

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:20 am

Oneyed wrote: thenobodies80 wrote:Top legend, where you say "holding firing tower - impossible to bombard targets from platoon bombardable from this tower"...sorry what does it mean? maybe you mean that the tower can't bombard tanks that are part of the same platoon? So G1T3 can't bombard G1C4 because it's the same platoon?

no. I meant that, hm. example helps more as my poor English: G1T4 bombards B1T1, B1C1 but when you will hold GFT1 you can not bombard B1T1, B1C1 from G1T4.


Aaaah, now i got it! My fault here, I didn't noticed the importance of the word, I saw that some towers have the flash on the map, but i thought only to a graphics embellishment. Though, it's not a so clear at glance...
However, your explanation in the legend must be very very clear because this concept is important during the game.
So maybe something like: "If you hold a platoon firing tower, the other towers of the same platoon can no longer bombard the targets that the two towers have in common" or maybe "If you hold the firing tower and any other tower of the same platoon, the targets in common can be bombarded only by the firing tower".

Oneyed wrote: thenobodies80 wrote:And in that case you can have not clear situations, like G2T3 - G1C2, it's not the same platoon, but i think you don't want to make possible for the former to bombard the latter, right?

yes. but I can not see problem that this should valids for both versions (1, can not bombard from platoon. 2, can not bombard from former.) everything depends what will be better for gameplay. what do you think?


I think you should decide how the map must start and play.
This is important because on the map you have only bombardments between platoons and no regular connections (attacks).
So it's clear that where the players will start is very very important. Imo there should be a way for players to move also horizontally on the map, on the contrary if a platoon or two, are bombarded to the death (so reverted to all neutral) you can have a stall problem. Imagine what the players can do if player 1 controls B1 platoon, player 2 controls G2 platton and instead platoon B2 and G1 are bombarded to neutral. They can do nothing and the game can't end!

I assume you want to have player 1 on one side and player 2 to the others, so you will have 2 set of starting position, but also in this case i strongly suggest a way for the players to move from a platoon to another if on the same side (B1<->B2 and G1<->G2)

As said, i think you should start to discuss gameplay, the idea is clear, the draft is certainly a working draft...oh btw a last thing....koontz gave a good suggestion about rotating the battlefield, i think you should do what he said, it's much better that layout to fit the current UI. ;)

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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), update - 4.3. (Pg2)

Postby Oneyed on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:39 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:Aaaah, now i got it! My fault here, I didn't noticed the importance of the word, I saw that some towers have the flash on the map, but i thought only to a graphics embellishment. Though, it's not a so clear at glance...
However, your explanation in the legend must be very very clear because this concept is important during the game.
So maybe something like: "If you hold a platoon firing tower, the other towers of the same platoon can no longer bombard the targets that the two towers have in common" or maybe "If you hold the firing tower and any other tower of the same platoon, the targets in common can be bombarded only by the firing tower".


the problem here, but I hope not big, is that tanks with firing towers are not part of platoons. they would be "moved" tanks from platoon.
thenobodies80 wrote:I think you should decide how the map must start and play.
This is important because on the map you have only bombardments between platoons and no regular connections (attacks).
So it's clear that where the players will start is very very important. Imo there should be a way for players to move also horizontally on the map, on the contrary if a platoon or two, are bombarded to the death (so reverted to all neutral) you can have a stall problem. Imagine what the players can do if player 1 controls B1 platoon, player 2 controls G2 platton and instead platoon B2 and G1 are bombarded to neutral. They can do nothing and the game can't end!


good point here. so there must be any connection between platoons on the same side. maybe chassis of platoon leader tanks could have connection?
thenobodies80 wrote:I assume you want to have player 1 on one side and player 2 to the others, so you will have 2 set of starting position, but also in this case i strongly suggest a way for the players to move from a platoon to another if on the same side (B1<->B2 and G1<->G2)


yes each player will start on one side.
thenobodies80 wrote:oh btw a last thing....koontz gave a good suggestion about rotating the battlefield, i think you should do what he said, it's much better that layout to fit the current UI. ;)


you mean rotate it that tanks will be from right to left?

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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), update - 4.3. (Pg2)

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:46 pm

yes, exactly

show: example


Obviously the legend and the labels must be changed! :P

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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), update - 4.3. (Pg2)

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:24 pm

I like the right to left battle idea.


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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?) [20/2] Pg1

Postby ViperOverLord on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:56 pm

Oneyed wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:I also omitted 'less.' Less vertigo on the user. Less dizzying, less disorienting if the tanks go left and right (east/west) and not up and down (north/south).


I am not sure where will be difference. and I need upper and bottom part for legends. thank you for input :)

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For people who get dizzier, easier; it makes a big difference. You presumably don't have those types of equilibrium issues.

I know for myself, that thenobodies flip of the map made it much easier for me to take-in. You would be well advised to redo the key to accommodate that significant portion of users who would benefit. But, it is your map; so do what you want.
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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?) [20/2] Pg1

Postby Oneyed on Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:05 am

ViperOverLord wrote:I also omitted 'less.' Less vertigo on the user. Less dizzying, less disorienting if the tanks go left and right (east/west) and not up and down (north/south).

koontz1973 wrote:Instead of top bottom, left right orientation for the map.

thenobodies80 wrote:oh btw a last thing....koontz gave a good suggestion about rotating the battlefield, i think you should do what he said, it's much better that layout to fit the current UI. ;)

AndyDufresne wrote:I like the right to left battle idea.


ok, ok guys. but it will not be so easy as only rotate map ;)

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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), update - 4.3. (Pg2)

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:46 pm

Oneyed, can I get you to do me a favour and place some 88s onto the map. Not everywhere but where you would like players to start. Then I might get my head around some things.
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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), update - 4.3. (Pg2)

Postby Oneyed on Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:42 pm

here it is, koontz :)
Click image to enlarge.
image


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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), update - 4.3. (Pg2)

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:57 pm

Thanks Oneyed.

Top legend.
Tank barriers limit bombardments. This is fine but the symbol, can you add a couple more in a line. Reason being is no where on the map do you have a single barrier.

From what I can gather from the map and thread (please forgive me if I have this wrong and if so, please correct me), G1T4 can bombard forward in its line and to the lines left and right of it. G1T3 cannot though till the player has moved forward onto GFT1. Am I correct so far?
I take it that my tanks can attack the tanks to the left and right of me (adjacent only)?

Can you let me know if I have finally figured this out. I think you have the makings for a great map here.
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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), update - 4.3. (Pg2)

Postby Oneyed on Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:21 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Top legend.
Tank barriers limit bombardments. This is fine but the symbol, can you add a couple more in a line. Reason being is no where on the map do you have a single barrier.


ok. good point.
koontz1973 wrote:From what I can gather from the map and thread (please forgive me if I have this wrong and if so, please correct me), G1T4 can bombard forward in its line and to the lines left and right of it. G1T3 cannot though till the player has moved forward onto GFT1. Am I correct so far?


you have right G1T4. it bombards BFC1, BFT1, (B1C1, B1T1 - only if GFT1 is not held), B1C4, BIT4.
G1T3 bombards BFC1, BFT1. and from G1C3 you can move to GFC1 if you hold G1T1/G1C1 - entire leader tank of platoon.
then GFT1 bombards B1C1, B1T1, B1C2, B1T2.
koontz1973 wrote:I take it that my tanks can attack the tanks to the left and right of me (adjacent only)?


tanks can not attack. Towers bombard enemies Towers and Chassis. Chassis can attack (word attack is not used by thenobodies advice) Chassis of the same platoon. Chassis of the same platoon are all adjacent.
koontz1973 wrote:Can you let me know if I have finally figured this out. I think you have the makings for a great map here.


thanks. I hope I explain it fine...

I will work on rotate version, but almost everything will be as it is now. I just had hard weekend :sick: :)

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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), update - 4.3. (Pg2)

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:46 pm

Playing too many games on your first map in beta. I know the feeling.
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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), update - 4.3. (Pg2)

Postby Oneyed on Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:21 am

koontz1973 wrote:Playing too many games on your first map in beta. I know the feeling.


no, no. I play just one. but the feeling is great to see first playable map :)
it was too much alcohol :lol:

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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), update - 4.3. (Pg2)

Postby Oneyed on Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:21 am

I have rotate the tanks, but now are problems with the 888s. look at the picture and let me know if rotate the map is so MUST. or give me some tips ;) :)
Click image to enlarge.
image


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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), 888s problem

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:54 am

Are some squares bigger than others? The top and bottom rows look smaller than the others. You can fit the 888s between the name card and the tank itself. You might need to shrink the tank a few pixels but that would not be a problem.
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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), 888s problem

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:21 pm

Maybe put the numbers next to the name labels instead of having them on tanks?

Image

edit: i noticed now that in my example the two names should be swapped #-o

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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), 888s problem

Postby Oneyed on Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:36 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:Maybe put the numbers next to the name labels instead of having them on tanks?

Image

edit: i noticed now that in my example the two names should be swapped #-o


sounds as the best solution :)

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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), 888s problem

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:03 pm

I like that solution.


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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), 888s problem

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:13 am

How is it going oneyed?
If you produce an update following the latest suggestions, I think this one can be moved to gameplay.

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P.s. I'll reply to your pm this weekend, sorry for the delay but I was terribly busy.

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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), 888s problem

Postby Oneyed on Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:13 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:P.s. I'll reply to your pm this weekend, sorry for the delay but I was terribly busy.


in which year you meant? 2014 or later?

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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), 888s problem

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:02 am

I hope you keep going with this map. It is nice looking!
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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), 888s problem

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:20 pm

[Moved]

It would appear that development of this map has stalled. The map is moved to the ideas subforum. If the mapmaker wants to continue with the map, then one of the Cartographer Assistants will be able to help put the thread back into the Foundry system, after an update has been made. ;-)
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Re: Tank Battle (1v1?), 888s problem

Postby Oneyed on Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:45 pm

back in black :)

here is updated version.
Click image to enlarge.
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