District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby sannemanrobinson on Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:56 am

Anacostia to Southwest would have my preference to avoid too much dominance of Bolling. Someone else might have a different opinion though.
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby ManBungalow on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:53 am

What can you do to make this map stand out from the many other city maps we already have?
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby Peter Gibbons on Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:07 pm

Ok, my first attempt at more coherent thoughts. Take them for what they are worth:

GENERAL
1) I'd argue you should approach the map like it's the only one of Washington, D.C. you will do. To start, this is a long process, so if you end up getting frustrated and don't see a second map (on the same territory) through, we would be left with an incomplete map of DC. I think you make a very good point that you could do a second map of the more touristy areas (the "Federal City," if you will), that includes monuments and other things--maybe including the Metro. But I don't think that means you should ignore some of the capital/American aspects on this map. Just a general observation in approach. If you end up with 2 (or 3) DC maps, that's great. But you might grow tired of this process OR you might like it so much that you want to use your talents on another geographic area after you finish this one.

GAMEPLAY
2) In the spirit of point #1 above, I'd strongly consider adding the Anacostia River in and then use Rock Creek Park as an impassible in the northwest. Neither has to be perfectly accurate, but using them will limit some connections, allow you to manipulate bonuses some more and give you greater freedom to balance gameplay.

3) I think you've already conceded/made this point, but once you follow through on #2 (if you do go that route) you can probably merge some territories even if it's not perfectly accurate--just for gameplay purposes. I'm thinking Palisades and Foxhall and then Deanwood and Benning as prime candidates. Maybe Blue Plains with Congress Heights. A lot of these potential mergers will depend on what ends up being the optimal territory count, so don't take any of those as gospel. Just suggesting them now as something to be on the lookout for.

4) The 4-way intersections have to be adjusted, as others have noted.

THEME/GRAPHICS
5) The rainbow color scheme just doesn't work for me. It's just not DC to the vast majority of people who will play this map. DC is America. You've got 8 bonus regions. I think you can do something with shades of red, blue, white and black. It could be very bold coloring (a deepish maroon red, a bright red, a navy blue, a very royal blue, a white, a black, a dark grey and then a very light shade of grey. If they are spaced appropriately around the map, it could be a very dynamic scheme. Obviously your call and you don't have to follow what I say, but I don't think the rainbow scheme is a winner in the long-term.

6) I really do like/appreciate the roads in and out of DC. I hope that stays part of the map.

7) I don't think the Seal fits, though. Just seems out of place and unless there's a more tasteful way of doing it, I'd like to see that eventually scrapped.

8 ) Like the use of the DC flag, though. Not sure it should be the entire background, but there's plenty of time to work with that. I think it definitely should be part of the map, though.

9) I think you need different fonts. I'm no expert on that sort of thing, but I know there are a lot of experts here in the foundry. I'm sure, through trial and error, you'll find a good one.

10) I don't think you should put any monuments on the map or involve them in the gameplay, but I do think the Capitol dome would be a great graphical touch to be part of the background. No idea how you do it or how it fits with the flag, but I hope it's something you consider. The combination of the DC flag and the US Capitol would give a really nice touch and hit on both parts of the city that are noteworthy.
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby Seamus76 on Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:53 pm

Really nice first draft, I hope you stick with it.

I'm not the best at gameplay, and Peter has pretty much done some great posting, so I'll leave this to you guys for the moment, but if you need anything just let me know. I use gimp as well, so I won't be much help with photoshop.
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby brhiba on Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:14 pm

sannemanrobinson wrote:Anacostia to Southwest would have my preference to avoid too much dominance of Bolling. Someone else might have a different opinion though.

I'll try that.

ManBungalow wrote:What can you do to make this map stand out from the many other city maps we already have?

This map is intentionally basic. I'm biased but I think it stands out strictly because it's DC - a map of which doesn't exist. But I'm of the mindset - and this may be an unpopular proposition - that it doesn't need to stand out in gameplay. I hope the location and design will make it special. But I'd rather add it to the canon of straightforward city maps. My favorite thing about CC is the variety of maps that follow the standard theme - I'd be pleased as punch if there were a classic map of all the major cities.
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby Seamus76 on Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:30 pm

brhiba wrote:
ManBungalow wrote:What can you do to make this map stand out from the many other city maps we already have?

This map is intentionally basic. I'm biased but I think it stands out strictly because it's DC - a map of which doesn't exist. But I'm of the mindset - and this may be an unpopular proposition - that it doesn't need to stand out in gameplay. I hope the location and design will make it special. But I'd rather add it to the canon of straightforward city maps. My favorite thing about CC is the variety of maps that follow the standard theme - I'd be pleased as punch if there were a classic map of all the major cities.

Good luck with this battle. ;) I've been fighting that to a certain degree with my last two maps, and have seen the question posed to just about every new map these days. Unfortunately there is a pervasive feeling that all new maps coming out need to be different in some way, (all I hear is "more complicated") but I agree with you that most players like these standard gameplay maps and are getting bored with the current ones. There is a place for complicated maps, but we also need standard maps with great graphics, and simple gameplay.
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby brhiba on Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:43 pm

Peter Gibbons wrote:...if you end up getting frustrated and don't see a second map (on the same territory) through, we would be left with an incomplete map of DC. I think you make a very good point that you could do a second map of the more touristy areas (the "Federal City," if you will), that includes monuments and other things--maybe including the Metro. But I don't think that means you should ignore some of the capital/American aspects on this map. Just a general observation in approach. If you end up with 2 (or 3) DC maps, that's great. But you might grow tired of this process OR you might like it so much that you want to use your talents on another geographic area after you finish this one.

I'm pretty determined... but then again I'm a rook so who knows. You make good points. I suppose I just have a personal vendetta in the sense that I want to save all things touristy for a different map. I'm personally familiar with all the neighborhoods here, but maybe no one else is, or cares. *pet project alert* I guess. But yes - the approach is to totally capture DC, in a clean and simple way.

Peter Gibbons wrote:I'd strongly consider adding the Anacostia River in and then use Rock Creek Park as an impassible in the northwest.

I considered that at the outset, and ultimately decided against it. My strong preference is to stick with plain territories... but I might have to reconsider if there's enough pushback.

Peter Gibbons wrote:...you can probably merge some territories even if it's not perfectly accurate--just for gameplay purposes. I'm thinking Palisades and Foxhall and then Deanwood and Benning as prime candidates. Maybe Blue Plains with Congress Heights. A lot of these potential mergers will depend on what ends up being the optimal territory count, so don't take any of those as gospel.

I have 44 territories at the moment, which I thought was a solid number (listed among the goldens, and it works well in the excel worksheeet). I can see the Deanwood/Benning thing - which would really make Ward 7 a prime starting point. I can see the Palisades/Foxhall merge in Ward 3 too, but I might consider Cleveland Park/S. Rock Creek instead.

Peter Gibbons wrote:The rainbow color scheme just doesn't work for me. It's just not DC to the vast majority of people who will play this map. DC is America. You've got 8 bonus regions. I think you can do something with shades of red, blue, white and black. It could be very bold coloring (a deepish maroon red, a bright red, a navy blue, a very royal blue, a white, a black, a dark grey and then a very light shade of grey. If they are spaced appropriately around the map, it could be a very dynamic scheme. Obviously your call and you don't have to follow what I say, but I don't think the rainbow scheme is a winner in the long-term.

Ok, I'll throw some paint around and see what lands on the canvas.

Peter Gibbons wrote:I really do like/appreciate the roads in and out of DC. I hope that stays part of the map.

Thanks, I was proud of that one.

Peter Gibbons wrote:I don't think the Seal fits, though. Just seems out of place and unless there's a more tasteful way of doing it, I'd like to see that eventually scrapped.

Darn, I liked that one. It's ironic but it actually makes it feel less DC, which I like. It's not the standard thing anyone associates with DC, which gives it some cool novelty. But if people don't like it, I can live without.

Peter Gibbons wrote:Like the use of the DC flag, though. Not sure it should be the entire background, but there's plenty of time to work with that. I think it definitely should be part of the map, though.

The flag is a non-negotiable for me... not its placement necessarily, but it's gotta be featured somewhere prominently.

Peter Gibbons wrote:I think you need different fonts.

Big time.

Peter Gibbons wrote:I don't think you should put any monuments on the map or involve them in the gameplay, but I do think the Capitol dome would be a great graphical touch to be part of the background. No idea how you do it or how it fits with the flag, but I hope it's something you consider. The combination of the DC flag and the US Capitol would give a really nice touch and hit on both parts of the city that are noteworthy.

Good suggestion. I agree.
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby brhiba on Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:46 pm

Seamus76 wrote:Unfortunately there is a pervasive feeling that all new maps coming out need to be different in some way, (all I hear is "more complicated") but I agree with you that most players like these standard gameplay maps and are getting bored with the current ones. There is a place for complicated maps, but we also need standard maps with great graphics, and simple gameplay.

Well said, sir! =D>
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby Shape on Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:08 pm

brhiba wrote:
Seamus76 wrote:Unfortunately there is a pervasive feeling that all new maps coming out need to be different in some way, (all I hear is "more complicated") but I agree with you that most players like these standard gameplay maps and are getting bored with the current ones. There is a place for complicated maps, but we also need standard maps with great graphics, and simple gameplay.

Well said, sir! =D>

I'm not so crazy about the, well, crazy maps, ha, but I think there can be ways to subtly spice things up without trumping a general classic-style scheme. Seamus76's Alaska map is a good example, or even Thyseneal or American Civil War or Eurasia. (Not gonna lie, I had to look those up :P ). Then again, there can be good reasons to make a plain ol' classic map. I think the plain maps make sense for geographic areas that people are familiar with, so when you conquer, say, the British Isles, it has more meaning than, say, Muskingum County.

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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby Peter Gibbons on Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:43 pm

brhiba wrote:This map is intentionally basic. I'm biased but I think it stands out strictly because it's DC - a map of which doesn't exist. But I'm of the mindset - and this may be an unpopular proposition - that it doesn't need to stand out in gameplay. I hope the location and design will make it special. But I'd rather add it to the canon of straightforward city maps. My favorite thing about CC is the variety of maps that follow the standard theme - I'd be pleased as punch if there were a classic map of all the major cities.
Agreed with this totally, by the way. What makes Charleston or Chicago or Puget Sound more needed on CC than Washington DC? If someone wants to make a map of a city, they do it well, and people want to play it, then it should not be held back "just because it's another city map."

If the foundry only churns out maps with unique gameplay aspects, the site will drift away from classic "Risk" play. I don't want that. I think there's room for both approaches. Some mapmakers will get really creative with gameplay. Some mapmakers will stay classic and be creative with design. Both should be encouraged. Some of the more "unique" maps are the least popular on this site, after all.
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby Peter Gibbons on Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:50 pm

Thanks for the replies above. It sounds like they only place we really disagree is on the inclusion of the Anacostia and maybe Rock Creek, so we'll see what the foundry says as this develops!

On the DC flag/Capitol thing... (and I hope I describe this well)... what about having a shadowed image of the Capitol dome be the full background and then overlay the DC flag on it, but in shield form? Then the map would be on top of that.

Or maybe the flag as the background with the Capitol sort of embossed/engraved into the flag?

Or, a third option... the flag as the background, but in an actual flag/wavy fashion... but you have the saturation level of the flag taper off as you head toward the right side of the map, where it bleeds into an image of the Capitol dome.

I think I like the third one the best, but not sure how difficult that is to pull off!
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:43 pm

brhiba wrote:
ManBungalow wrote:What can you do to make this map stand out from the many other city maps we already have?

This map is intentionally basic. I'm biased but I think it stands out strictly because it's DC - a map of which doesn't exist. But I'm of the mindset - and this may be an unpopular proposition - that it doesn't need to stand out in gameplay. I hope the location and design will make it special. But I'd rather add it to the canon of straightforward city maps. My favorite thing about CC is the variety of maps that follow the standard theme - I'd be pleased as punch if there were a classic map of all the major cities.

Not going happen. Whilst this is a simple map and it may stay a simple map (as it is your first one), D.C. is nothing special. Never been their myself and have no intention to. A place that has under 700 thousand people living their does not merit a map just because it holds a few places of interest to a minority.

Lets get some landmarks onto the map. How about the river? We also need to be seeing some impassables. A lot can be incorporated into the map and still make it simple. Not every map needs to be complicated, but not every map needs to be made.
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby Peter Gibbons on Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:03 am

koontz1973 wrote:Not going happen. Whilst this is a simple map and it may stay a simple map (as it is your first one), D.C. is nothing special. Never been their myself and have no intention to. A place that has under 700 thousand people living their does not merit a map just because it holds a few places of interest to a minority.

I thought the concern expressed above by Seamus was overblown, but I guess I was wrong. And I must say this is a really arrogant and foolish approach. First of all, Washington is the capital of the most powerful nation in the world. For that alone, it probably merits a map if this site has city maps.

Second of all, your condescending language makes no sense. "Just because it holds a few places of interest to a minority." Excuse me? Name me a place that holds places of interest to the majority? I bet I can find 51% of a sample that could give a crap about NYC, London, Copenhagen, Philadelphia and many of the other cities on this map. What a joke of a comment.

Third, we're talking about a site that has San Marino, Luxembourg, Puget Sound, Quad Cities, Greenland and Charleston as maps (all with under 700,000 people, I might add), all with very simple gameplay and no real special features (aside from Greenland). Quad-effing-Cities!!! I mean, Quad Cities is a map with NO special features. And you're going to tell me there's no place for Washington, DC?!?!

[I should note, by the way, that Quad Cities is a GREAT map. As is Charleston. Two of the best on the site, in my opinion. And they are nothing but simple gameplay maps of cities that are 1/5th the size of DC and 1/1,000,000th as important geo-politically]

Lets get some landmarks onto the map. How about the river? We also need to be seeing some impassables. A lot can be incorporated into the map and still make it simple. Not every map needs to be complicated, but not every map needs to be made.

The thing is, I actually agree with you that the Anacostia River and Rock Creek Park could help improve the gameplay. But his post alone makes me want to encourage the mapmaker to forge ahead without incorporating them. EDIT: and definitely no landmarks--icons on the map look stupid in my opinion and I imagine some others share the opinion. I think it's a shame they got added to North America, for example. I don't know why this is a point that gets harped on. NYC plays fine without landmarks on the map. So does London. Why does Washington have to have them?

The last sentence above is more condescening bullcrap. Why are the foundry moderators looking to discourage or make things more difficult for a mapmaker? The foundry has bled mapmakers, bled ideas, lacked creativity and become a far less busy place over the past year or so. Along comes a mapmaker with a great draft, a clear idea of what he wants to do and the first basic response is "do it differently or we won't allow you to make the map because Washington DC isn't important enough to have a map in our eyes." Unbelievable. For the first time on this site, I'm genuinely shocked by the response. I really hope this post was just your misguided personal opinion and not site policy.
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:39 am

Peter, you make think my advice was condescending, but I was only following up on a comment by ManBungalow that was not addressed:
ManBungalow wrote:What can you do to make this map stand out from the many other city maps we already have?

And he is right, what makes this worthy of a map. Just because we want it, does not mean we will get it. I am here to help get the best possible map made. You mentioned a few maps from yesteryear that got made, but these where all made when we had far fewer maps. You also mentioned Quad cities, this is a great map and it is unique in theme and location, whilst still being easy on gameplay, it does have a couple of extra features added to it like auto deploys, trapped territs and what not.
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby Shape on Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:47 am

Hm, well, I didn't read any condescension in koontz's post. At any rate, I think both you, koontz, and you, Peter Gibbons, have valid points. Now, I think there is room for a classic-style D.C. map. However, after looking at the maps Peter Gibbons listed, NYC has some flavor in the graffiti'd sign and Statue of Liberty icon for Liberty Island, and it has extra gameplay elements, London has a great aesthetic with a picture of London and Big Ben set in the background, Copenhagen also has additional gameplay elements and the objectives themselves add flavor, and Philadelphia, I think, is the best example, oozing with flavor that represents the Philadelphian culture in aesthetics and gameplay. So, what I mean to say, is although these maps may not attract people solely on the basis of the location depicted on the map, but each adds key features both graphically and gameplay-wise to increase the appeal of the map to a wider audience. I think this should be the goal of this D.C. map. As for the other maps you listed, Quad Cities does a fantastic job of setting the scene with that blurb of history and it's a very pretty map, Luxembourg's appeal, I think, stems from it's smallness (much like Doodle Earth), and Luxembourg, Greenland and San Marino are each countries, which I think is a different case, as these are more familiar to a wider audience than a city would be. I will concede that Puget Sound is a very unappealing map, and Charleston to some extent as well, but I don't think these are the examples to go by.

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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby brhiba on Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:42 am

The last four responses have really blown this thing wide open. So I'm not going to quote any particular comments here. I just have to say - Peter Gibbons and I are in complete, total, and utter agreement. koontz1973, I know you have good intentions - all of your feedback thus far has been constructive. However, I disagree almost entirely with your most recent sentiments.

Let's move forward from here with the understanding that the mapmaker has a lucid vision of the map -- an idea that is not only clear and well-formed, but is flexible and open to suggestions.
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:10 am

brhiba wrote:I disagree almost entirely with your most recent sentiments.

Why do you disagree? I have no problem with you disagreeing, but as stated in the guidelines:
4. All sound advice must be followed unless a logical rebuttal by the cartographer or another member of the community is provided.

None has been given. brhiba, sorry, but with over 200 maps now, and the majority of these mid sized classic maps (like this one), another one is not going to stand out in the crowd.
Answer this for me.
Why would I want to play this map when I have a lot of others to play?
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby Peter Gibbons on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:58 am

koontz1973 wrote:Peter, you make think my advice was condescending, but I was only following up on a comment by ManBungalow that was not addressed:
"Not going to happen" isn't the best way to respond to a brand new mapmaker when coming from a figure of authority. And the dismissive comments about DC made absolutely no sense, especially when juxtaposed against all the maps that are on this site.

And he is right, what makes this worthy of a map. Just because we want it, does not mean we will get it.
I just don't get this. Why is there a limit on maps. There are several dozen maps on this site that I think are horrible. I avoid them at all costs (and bang my head against the keyboard when they come up on random). What is the problem, exactly, of adding a new map if the mapmaker wants to do it and there appears to be support in the foundry? Conversely... why did the foundry have a Papua New Guinea contest on a map with normal gameplay? Who, exactly, demanded Papua New Guinea as a region that needed to be represented? You can't have it both ways. I personally loved that contest and love the resulting map from it. But how can the moderators of the foundry push PNG on the community in one breath and then say Washington D.C. doesn't deserve a map--when a new mapmaker wants to do it--in the next breath?

I am here to help get the best possible map made. You mentioned a few maps from yesteryear that got made, but these where all made when we had far fewer maps.
I just don't understand how this is a problem. What, exactly, constitutes "yesteryear?" Was there a great event on the CC timeline that divides the periods when classic gameplay maps were acceptable from when they became unacceptable?

You also mentioned Quad cities, this is a great map and it is unique in theme and location, whilst still being easy on gameplay, it does have a couple of extra features added to it like auto deploys, trapped territs and what not.
It is a great map. But I don't know how in the world it's unique in theme. It's on a green field with some bright colors and a few bridges. And of course it's "unique" in location. But so is Washington D.C. This map above has trapped territories. So all he needs is to make the Capitol a +1 auto-deploy and it's golden?

I kid, of course. But I truly don't understand the point that's being made here. I apologize for coming off so forceful last night, but I feel really strongly about this. I came to this site because I loved classic Risk and I loved the ability to play classic Risk on 100+ different maps. I'd love it even more to play on 200+ different maps (before someone gets cute, I realize how many maps there are--but not all of them are classic-style play and that's my point). I don't need bombardments and decaying territories and auto deploys and killer neutrals and convoluted unique connections and the sort (they are fine in some maps, but my point is I don't need them to enjoy a map). Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think I'm the only one that feels this way. And it bothers me that the foundry--with seemingly no justification or reason--is limiting development of such maps. If there is an upper limit, due to technical issues, of how many maps this site can host, then I would understand. But I've never heard that argument. And, barring that argument, the rule seems arbitrary and I think it's counterproductive.

Also, just so we're clear. Shape listed a bunch of maps (the ones I listed) and went through and pointed out how they are unique or have something special. It should be noted that, in all those cases, it's something in the background that's not part of play. If London is "unique," for example, because it has Big Ben woven into the background, then this map will be unique when the mapmaker weaves the Capitol into the background. If we're merely talking about graphical features to frame the map, then I'll back down and apologize for this little flare-up. I actually think that's a great point (and one of the reasons I've advocated--with no response--for revamps of Hong Kong and Montreal, which are two of the best gameplay maps on this site but have no graphical flare). But I get the impression that that is NOT what the foundry leaders are talking about. If the argument here is that the gameplay of a DC map needs all sorts of bells and whistles to pass muster in the foundry, I think the leaders here are making a big mistake.
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:29 pm

There are some very valid points from both sides here! brhiba read through my Miami (I know shameless map plug O:) )map thread. You'll see where I started out, but now it has totally changed. Mapmakers always start out with a firm idea of where they want to take a map,

I would suggest making the National Mall area an inset and adding in some of the Landmarks to give the map some DC flare.
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby greenoaks on Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:11 pm

the supporters of this map seem confused. this is not a Washington DC map, this is a map of the District Of Columbia. no one outside of that district cares about it. however, we all know and pay attention to Washington. this map is made of the wrong region.

if you zoom in & make it of Washington DC, you'll get support.
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby RjBeals on Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:39 pm

If you step back and look at CC, there are no hard "rules" about what the subject of map should be. (cough.... 4-star meats?)... It's just that each map should bring something unique to the site. That's subjective in itself. At the time of creation, Charleston has a lot of support. It was made like 5 years ago. There weren't hundreds of maps on the site at that point. That one, along with a few others (my first map Italy in this group), do not add much uniqueness to the site. I may not get the same support today as I did then. But now with so many maps, the general thought is that maps should be more unique in gameplay and graphics.

I don't know - it's been hashed out over and over in these foundry threads. But overall, it seems that if you start a map, no matter what it is, and you generate community involvement, and support, you make an effort to apply feedback, you make consistent updates that are actual improvements, and you have an overall good attitude, you will eventually have a quenched map. That's what's nice about this site.

---------------------------------------------
edit. On topic. This map needs a lot of work. Looks like a landgrab map. I like the "zoom into the DC area" comment. You could use national monuments & buildings in the gamplay.
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby Peter Gibbons on Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:03 pm

greenoaks wrote:the supporters of this map seem confused. this is not a Washington DC map, this is a map of the District Of Columbia. no one outside of that district cares about it. however, we all know and pay attention to Washington. this map is made of the wrong region.

if you zoom in & make it of Washington DC, you'll get support.


Uh, what?

There is only one city in the District of Columbia. It's called Washington. It's the same place. I'm not confused. I live here.
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby Peter Gibbons on Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:09 pm

RjBeals wrote:If you step back and look at CC, there are no hard "rules" about what the subject of map should be. (cough.... 4-star meats?)... It's just that each map should bring something unique to the site. That's subjective in itself. At the time of creation, Charleston has a lot of support. It was made like 5 years ago. There weren't hundreds of maps on the site at that point. That one, along with a few others (my first map Italy in this group), do not add much uniqueness to the site. I may not get the same support today as I did then. But now with so many maps, the general thought is that maps should be more unique in gameplay and graphics.

I don't know - it's been hashed out over and over in these foundry threads. But overall, it seems that if you start a map, no matter what it is, and you generate community involvement, and support, you make an effort to apply feedback, you make consistent updates that are actual improvements, and you have an overall good attitude, you will eventually have a quenched map. That's what's nice about this site.

Good comment and I do hope this is still true. Taking your point about Charleston to its logical conclusion... it would be a shame if a map like Charleston wasn't made today because we have "too many" maps. It's one of the best on the site. We shouldn't dismiss potential new quality just because we have a lot of quantity. I understand having high standards and a thorough process. I just don't think it makes sense to limit a new mapmaker, region or graphical style just because there's an arbitrary decision that we have "enough" classic gameplay maps.
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:50 pm

Enough non map stuff guys. If you want to talk about the merrits of what maps should or should not get made today, you are more than welcome to take it over to discussions. I even set up a thread to discuss some of the issues raised in here.

brhiba, you have been given a lot of feedback on the map and more is sure to come. Now lets see what you do with it?
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Re: District of Columbia [8/3] V1 Pg1

Postby Seamus76 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:51 am

koontz1973 wrote:Enough non map stuff guys. If you want to talk about the merrits of what maps should or should not get made today, you are more than welcome to take it over to discussions. I even set up a thread to discuss some of the issues raised in here.

brhiba, you have been given a lot of feedback on the map and more is sure to come. Now lets see what you do with it?


I agree.

I'm all for simple maps, but as a group I'm sure we can come up with something cool, different, and still simple at the same time. I am here to help.

Last off-topic comment though, I do think the point should be that we are all here to make the best maps possible, whether they be simple or complex, and we are all on the same side.

Looking forward to the next update.
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