[Abandoned] War of the Roses

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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby HardAttack on Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:05 am

Aleena, pretty much impressed,
congrats, nice work mate.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby waauw on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:59 am

Bruceswar wrote:To make this into a map you are gonna need better graphics... Just saying


I agree, especially the sea needs to be nicer. The dark blue looks too basic.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:31 am

Aleena wrote:Not sure where to go next - so I started to go through the basic tutorial for coding this board. I wrote all the code needed based on the basic tutorial - onto MS Notepad. Not sure how to attach it or even test play it to see if I did it right??

Few things that I was not able to do yet - but I'll try to figure it out by reading other threads - if I has access to them is:
1) Set Qty of troops on each terrain at start of game.
2) Auto Deploy +1 unit each turn to London
I see how I can add +1 to deploy if player controls London - but what I need is the number of units on London increase by one each turn while not controlled by a player.
3) I do not know how to block or prevent access to attack London unless player has control over 4 churches first.

Besides these 3 issues - I think I have it all coded.

Don't worry about the XML right now as the game-play will change a bit along the way. Just focus on getting the Draft, game-play and graphic stamps first! For XML help, the XML Guide will tell you everything you need to know.

As for your points above:
1. Can be done easily;
2. This cannot be done with the current XML, but what you can do is set the neutral count high enough to make it difficult for a player to get it.
3. This is done by conditional borders, and the XML Guide explains it all.

As I mentioned, focus on getting the Draft stamp first. The requirements for the Draft stamp can be found here.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:42 pm

You say I need more graphics and the water is too simple...
Ok, I've added mountains, trees, boats and a compass...
I've also added texture to the ocean, and tweeked the land graphics a bit.
And added a light source to try to give a globe effect...
Last edited by Aleena on Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby waauw on Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:29 am

omg! this looks so pretty :o
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby ViperOverLord on Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:04 am

Best map I've seen by a person with a question mark for a rank.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:39 am

Map Name:War of The Roses
Mapmaker(s):Aleena
Number of Territories: 66
Special Features:
.....London can not be attacked unless player controls at least 4 churches
.....London spawn units on their own space each turn (if not possible then starts with 100 units)
.....Cities pre-set with different Qty troops at start
.....Family combos produce daily deploy sort of like territory combos.
.....Though all players starting spaces are random each player so each player starts with different Qty troops.
.....London, Casias, and all Churches will all ways start as nuetral areas
.....Capturing London wins the game.

What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made:
.....So based on the random spaces given to players - not all players will start even
.....This is to illustrate their hierarchy in line for the throne.
.....Also since the winner is not solely based off conquest, even the smallest army can win if skillful
.....I have not played all the map's but for two reasons I feel this map should be made.
.....One reason is because it is a historical battle.
.....Another is because a player does not win on just conquest -
.....The winning player is the first player that claims the throne
.....I do not think we have any other map like this.
....A balance system that makes gives smaller players more reinforcements

Starting Player Starts With:
...2 Players start with 19 random areas
...3 Players start with 13 random areas (1 Basic City Added)
...4 Players start with 10 random areas (2 Basic Cities Added)
...5 Players start with 8 random areas (2 Basic Cities Added)
...6 Players start with 7 random areas (4 Basic Cities Added)
...7 Players start with 6 random areas (4 Basic Cities Added)
...8 Players start with 5 random areas (2 Basic Cities Added)

Game has 38 Family Crest "Shield" cities which all start with different Qty troops and are randomly distributed to all players at the start of the game.

There is 12 Churches all start as neutral

There is 14 Basic Cities usually start as neutral - unless needed to balance out even lands to starting players. If so, the Basic cities that will be randomly given to players at start will be:
.....Carisbrooke
.....Penzance
.....Berwick
.....Beaumaris

Balancing System:
This is to help encourage the struggle to become King versus just killing off all the players and becoming the Ruler (though that is still possible)

Players minimum will receive 1 unit per turn
Players that have Qty Areas from 1 to 10 get 1 reinforcement for each area control.
Players with 11 to 66 areas get 1 to 6 reinforcements 1 for every 11 areas they control.

So once you capture your 11th area - you are getting to become to bulky to manage your army as efficiently so your reinforcements drop. Allowing smaller nations a chance to climb back up and helping to detour players from dominating the entire board.

This might also open the door to more diplomatic game play - as such - I'll let you come behind me and capture these cities (to keep my city count under 11 yet also bring your count up so you get more reinforcements) as long as you allow me to retain control over this city which completes a family of mine "giving me a +1 bonus".



Map Images:
Small
Click image to enlarge.
image

Large
Click image to enlarge.
image


Troop Count in each starting location:
Player's Starting Locations: - (players need to combine family members to gain bonuses)
Alnwick 4 * Family A (2 members)
Cockermouth 4 * Family A (2 members)
Chillingham 4 * Family B (2 members)
Rockingham 4 * Family B (2 members)
Helmsley 4 * Family C (2 members)
Belvoir 4 * Family C (2 members)
Stokestay 4 * Family D (2 members)
Sandal 4 * Family D (2 members)
Chirk 4 * Family E (2 members)
Arundel 4 * Family E (2 members)
Newcastle 4 * Family F (2 members)
Leeds 4 * Family F (2 members)
Kimbolton 4 * Family G (2 members)
Compton 4 * Family G (2 members)
Raby 3 * Family H (4 members)
Richmond 3 * Family H (4 members)
Warwick 3 * Family H (4 members)
Ogmore 3 * Family H (4 members)
Wressle 3 * Family I (5 members)
Denbigh 3 * Family I (5 members)
Castle Rising 3 * Family I (5 members)
Usk 3 * Family I (5 members)
Flamlingham 3 * Family I (5 members)
Appleby 5
Masham 5
Conisboro 5
Tickhill 6
Tutbury 7
Llanstephan 5
Okehampton 5
Tattershall 5
Ludlow 5
Wingfield 5
Pleshey 6
Berkeley 5
Farnham 5
Corte 8 (port)
Douglas 10 (port)

Key Locations: (These locations can also be starting points for players)
Berwick 6 (port)
Beaumaris 8 (port)
Penzance 8 (port)
Carisbrooke 6 (port)

Churches:
Carlisle 6
Durham 6
York 6
Lincoln 6
Chester 6
Coventry 6
Norwich 6
Wells 6
Exeter 6
Salisbury 6
Canterbury 6
St. Davids 6

Basic Cities:
Whitby 6 (port)
Caernarvon 6 (port)
Preston 6 (port)
Northhampton 3
Oxford 3
Wallingford 3
windsor 3
Bristol 6 (port)
Devor 6 (port)
Plymouth 6 (port)

Mainland:
Calasis 10 (port)

Victory City:
London 10 +1 per turn (if not possible then 100 troops0

There is 8 access points to London so in an 8 player game all players can be sitting at the doors of London at the same time. But their is only 12 churches and players need control of 4 of them to attack London. So at any given point, at most there can only be 3 players attacking London at once. It is possible that two are attacking and one waits until the other two burn through their troops, then that one jumps in for the win. They must hold onto London for one full round to win. (Long enough to be declared king)
Last edited by Aleena on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:13 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby waauw on Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:58 am

could you change some of the textcolours a bit? Having some issues with being able to read citynames on the small version. The light coloured citynames near the very bright sea in the southwest especially. Also I'd prefer it if London was in a darker colour...
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:24 pm

Ok, ty for your feed back

I've changed the color of the south west areas to dark blue instead of light blue
I changes the Text font and made them all bold
I placed a scroll behind London to make it stand out more and made it black text
I split the areas in the big region to become two smaller regions - just made since.

Cleaned up the circles and the crosses...

Uploaded it back to the previous post of mine above - Now what do you think?

The community has told me:
They only like the Orange and Green colors of words - change the others
Especially the WHITE text is jarring...
Add to the Legend about the London and the churches
Smooth out the water - the tile effect is too pixallated.
Clean-up graphics on some shields
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:21 pm

Map Images:
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Last edited by Aleena on Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:35 am

It is looking very pretty. I'm still worried however, that even though the image has been changed, the map is still too similar to the original board game and still violates someone's intellectual property rights. Whether they would have a legal leg to stand on is not something I can say; I'm not a lawyer, but I still worry.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:50 am

ty - for your concerns and your opinion...
The map is that of Britain and every map of Britain by any map maker world wide looks like this - so on that ground he are safe... I drew all the shields, and graphics myself - so their is no legal issue on stealing art work, so we are fine there too. Second - the concept is based off a real historical war between families - that itself can not be copy righted - it would be like saying someone could copy right WW2 and be the only person to ever build a game or movie around it - so we should be fine there as well - As for game play - (even though Avolon Hills is not digital) the actual play and structure to the game is a lot different then what is possible for this site's game engine - so in no way is the game play the same. So therefore their really is nothing to worry about on the legal side - I just hope I did not do all this work for not, and I hope I get the approval to move forward to the next stage soon...
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Teflon Kris on Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:01 am

Small geographical point - Carlisle is located where you have Cockermouth - there may be others

Good wok though

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:01 am

Ty, Yes, it's true and there is others - but to balance the board out - for game play purposes - I have decided to make a few adjustments to locations of some of the cities... Over-all this is a game - not real life - and I feel the game play will be better with these cities slightly off target... But thank you for noticing and for your input.... What do you think of the game design out-side of not being geographically perfect?
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby waauw on Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:53 am

well I love it :D
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Seamus76 on Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:37 pm

Great work on continuing to improve your map, keep it up. As you can see below, this was my first draft of Tribal War - Florida, and extremely far from what the site requires, and deserves.

Tribal War - Florida v1.0
show


Eighteen months later and the map was finally quenched. Here's a couple of things, and feel free to use whatever works for you, and by no means do I mean to come off as an expert with only one map under my belt.

I use GIMP, what program are you using? In case there is anything I can do to help, just let me know. You have a great starting draft, but I really think the graphics will need to be completely redone in my opinion, everything is kind of "ms paint-ish", and not polished (don't be afraid to use free resources off the internet, I'm sure there is a nice ship you can use), unless that is the board game look and feel you are going for, I'm just not familiar with it. To that point, I wouldn't even worry about the small map until you are further down the line, at least until you get your gameplay stamp. Things can, and will change very quickly so you don't want to have to keep wasting time making updates to both. Also to that point, keep in mind if you are using the circles as actual army circles you'll need to keep them the same size for both the small and large maps, since the 888 numbers will be the same standard size for both.

As for gameplay, I need to look closer, but everything is not as clear as it could be for what attacks what, especially the sea routes. Is it that each tert attacks the next one in line to it? What about Douglas, is it attacked by Bristol and Penzance, or what? Also, Calais. It looks like it's only attacked by two terts.

Here is something I think you should be looking to model after, or strive for the end result to be like, etc.

show


Keep up the nice work, you have a long way to go, but you seem to have the passion and commitment which will see you through.

Let me know if you have any questions.[/quote]
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:15 pm

New Suggestions from the community:
Add a lake
Add bridges
The base (textured) terrain is too similar, maybe change them to more distinct colors..
Maybe remove your path lines and make it boarder lines instead...

So using this new advice I started the following....
But these issues all seem to be taken me in circles since other older comments where:
solid color is too simplistic which I used in the original draft for the sea. (But now, they are asking for solid, clear colors for the lands... ??)
Your map is to dirty (cluttered) needs to be cleaned up a bit - (But now I'm being asked to do more with graphics - so I added compass, boats, knights, mountains, trees, and bridges... It seems like this is just cluttering up the map again...??

I'm referred to a section in the thread where it talks about what is needed to get the draft stamp:

To earn this stamp the map must meet the following conditions:

1)The map, first and foremost, must have a clear plan of how production will go
... Not clear what they are asking for here?
... Production in design is these pre-set stamp process and I do not see how the map will reflex that.
... If they are asking about the basic layout of how it will be coded - well just like all the other maps,
....The areas will be defined and referred to connecting cities and the bonuses will be set up acordingly
.... just like all the other games...
.... If they mean the production in game play - well the only thing I think this game engine is designed
....to produce for in game play is Deploying Units - it's not set-up for other resources like money
... In any case I think I made it clear the structure of bonuses and set-up of units and production of units.

2) Have a playable image. (If it would be quenched instead of Draft stamped, would it be possible to play on it?)
This should include the following:
Territory names
..........All territories have names
Working legends
...........Not sure what they mean by a working Legend - I did not notice any game with an interactive legend
...........If you mean that it is just clear about the bonus the game offers, and if I'm using anything out of the usual
...........it is explained. I feel in the most part everything I'm using is basically standard to these types of games
...........but I feel the ledgend does clearly point out the bonuses (based off other maps on this site I saw)
Speculative Bonuses
..........Well, talked about that above and I feel they are clearly layed out.
Tentative Border Divisions
......... Initially I was using the connected path system to show border divisions (which I have seen done on other games on this site)
..........I think it's the clearest way to go - just follow the lines

3) The working image needs to be beyond rough draft state. This means that you must provide the following:

A working image done in some kind of graphic software. Pencil-drawn images and images done on Microsoft Paint will not be accepted or considered a working draft.
At least two quality updates must be provided.(*)

This is where I think I'm having the most issue - For I showed by using textures s well as using a light source in one of my drafts to make the map
look like it was allmost a globe shape. These show that I am using graphic software to a degree - yet I'm not the greatest artist, and there is nop clear scale to compare graphically what is acceptable and what is not.

4) Have honest and interested discussion. Not just you and three friends.

I've even pulled players from the live chat when ever possable to get ideas and what they think...
In the most part I get one of two responses..
aprocx 50% say they love it and it's pretty (which some have even posted that in these threads)
the other 50% say "it's a good start but I see you need more work wioth the graphics" But they are not clear about what is wrong with the graphics
And I'm not getting any additional progress report stating that the changes I've been making are correct or not...

The Graphic Stamp has more clear out-line what is needed in graphics then the Draft does - and I feel I've tried to live up to the clear guidelines
on the graphic stamp - yet even though I'm not at the graphic stamp yet, it's seems to be the graphics that is holding me back.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:49 pm

Though I like my old map - it means nothing If I do not have the skills to graphically present it to ya....
So I decided to look at some of the once all ready approved - and try to find a style with in my own skill-set.
To do this next map _ I had to drop additional cities (from 66 to 52) - and move them around some more (so many are not geographically correct, but this is not a school room - this is a game)

I believe based on what I've seen in the "all ready approved" maps that this one fits the bill...
IF their are some areas that still need work, please express them as soon as possible so that I can knock them out...
But be clear - else it's just me second guessing everything and reworking a new map that will most likely still have the same issues.

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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby waauw on Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:12 pm

well even though it's not as pretty as before in my opinion, it is a lot easier to read now. though I'd prefer it if you dimmed the territory colours down a bit, The bright yellow at the bottom is quite flashy on the eyes.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Bruceswar on Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:21 am

It is a good idea to keep track of your versions in your first post. Also looking better. Keep on going. :)


You also need a new water if you ask me.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:09 am

It belongs to the drafting room. :)

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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:16 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image


Changed the yellow color - hope it is easier on your eyes now..
Added trees to limit some movement and a legend for the trees/rivers.

Not sure what parts of this map people like and don't like - so have to wait on your (the community) comments to determine what I do or work on next.. Please if something could be better - be specific : don't just say the graphics in general because that refers to everything from the water to the land to the boats and the trees...

Can't wait to hear from you all...
Happy Gaming,
Aleena
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby waauw on Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:29 pm

This isn't a must, but I'd suggest making the explanatory texts shorter:
  • All docks and ships in adjacent waters(west, south, east) connect
  • Victory conditions: Hold London for 1 turn
  • Hold all 4 crosses to be able to attack London

Also the names in the purple regions aren't as sharp as in the other regions for some reason :|
and I think the bonuses for regions are way too high. With bonuses this high, the focus on the shields will be too small.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:27 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image


Ty waauw -now that is suggestions and comments I can work with...
Ok, I adjusted the bonuses now controlling 5 of the same shield will get you a plus 10 where you will need 10 lands to get the same effect - this should make the shields equally as valuable if not more so....

Changed the about ship transport - moved the tree/river legend up to the ship legend

Changed text in the purple area...

ty again for all your support and suggestions...

I'm open to any more clear suggestions of what should be done to this map - before it moves on...
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:03 am

Click image to enlarge.
image


Added a mini-map
and adjusted the bonuses to autobonus for the shields...
Would be nice if the player has to move the units themselves - instead of just be given a hand full to place down.
But the area bonuses will still be the basic deploy.


Ok, not sure where to go from here - So I'd like more feed back if possible - I've been trying to modify and update based on all feed-back given - so feel free to tell me what you think?

I also do not know the thread that discuses all of the Game Engines features - It would be nice to be able to see a clear list of XML feature codes and upgrades to the game engine so that one could grasp better ideas of what is possible in the design...

For example: Autodeploy: some one tells me that instead of being given this unit to deploy where ever you want on the board - it will automatically be deployed each turn in a set area. But then again I hear that their are limitations to this, for if a non-player (neutral) controls the areas that summons this autodeploy - that the autodeploy will not work. I've read through the basic tutorial - and it talks nothing about autodeploy - I also wonder if there are many other cool features that this game offers and might be able to be worked in on this draft, yet I do not know them. So if anyone could give me the thread where all the commands/game engine abilities can be seen, I'd appreciate it... I thought it would be under Tools & Guide which does give some good information - but does not seem to talk about autodeploy or give any list off pre-established commands built for this game engine. I have not read through the whole thread - but just off the titles I do not see it, I'll continue searching for it and reading Tools and Guide, but I do prefer a quick and easy reference.

Thnak you all,
and happy gaming....
Aleena
Last edited by Aleena on Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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