[Abandoned] War of the Roses

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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:16 pm

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Sorry for the delay

I changed the ships
I darkened the woof
I modified the title..

What do you all think now?
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:06 am

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someone suggested I modify the water a little more - so here is a new ocean - hope you like it...

Please feel free to leave suggestions and comments...

below i removed the texture in the water and made it more blueish and less purple

Large
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Last edited by Aleena on Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Serbia on Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:05 am

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Newcastle should be way up north, by Berwick, not down south. :)
Also I love that Whitby is on there, cool town!

Bollocks.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:25 am

Coventry should be a crossroad rather than a dead end, no? I'm not an expert, but I seem to remember that historically Coventry was known as the intersection of many trade routes.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:09 am

I had to make some liberties to make the areas clear and fit appropriately. To me the game play is more important then the accuracy of the geographical locations - Over-all this is a game not a history class. Sorry for those who wish that the locations where more accurate, but I'm sure if you give it a chance you will enjoy the game play...
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby waauw on Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:46 am

I like it, though I'd prefer a different background for your title, the orangy background with the purple letters don't fit imo.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:30 pm

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ok changed from a gold plaque to a silver one does it look better?

It might seem a little bold - but I was asked to make the name pop a bit...

suggestions - opinions?
Last edited by Aleena on Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby waauw on Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:39 pm

Aleena wrote:ok changed from a gold plaque to a silver one does it look better?

It might seem a little bold - but I was asked to make the name pop a bit...

suggestions - opinions?


hmm, still looks a bit odd
but that's mostly the flowers you drew around it maybe.
Perhaps you can make a normal but pretty title, lying on a large rose or some big roseleaves or something.

The problem is mostly that little roses growing of your title is a good idea, but not so much on this scale in my opinion. So either you make the title and the roses on it bigger or you just take out the roses overgrowing it and integrate roses differently.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:54 pm

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Ok, I dumped the little roses - changed color of font from blue to black, added a couple of large roses and cleaned up the font a bit..

What do you all think now?
Last edited by Aleena on Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Bruceswar on Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:14 pm

much better title :)
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Shannon Apple on Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:16 pm

Place names could be smaller. They are very bulky and confusing. I don't think it looks finished because of that. What program are you using to make this because it's also pixelating the text?

If geographical locations can be more accurate, why not make them more accurate?... just saying.

Sorry to be a wee bit critical.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:22 pm

Ok, I'll make text smaller - I'm hand drawing the text - it was more blurry when I used arail font or times roman - so I decided to just draw it myself pixel to pixel. (All text on the map and in the title) - The instruction text is arial font I think..

To make geographical locations more accurate I'll need to place 8 places north of the top river next to Berwick - Right now I have in that small trianglar area 4 places - try to picture what it would look like it I doubled it.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:23 pm

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Ok, I changed the Font of the cities from my size 15 hand drawn to a size 12 font of that period.
Last edited by Aleena on Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Bruceswar on Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:31 pm

The font looks cool but it is hard to read. :(
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:39 pm

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ok kept the size at 12 since you all wish small text - but to make it clearer - I removed the fancy text for a standard text and have it all in caps.. Can you all read it now? Any other suggestions or concerns?
Last edited by Aleena on Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Bruceswar on Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:58 pm

Better. .. stroke the text and or put an outer glow on it.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:23 am

Not sure what stroke the text mean...
But since you said it needed an outer glow - it tells me that the text is on too dark of a background and needs something to make it more visible - so I places a plaque behind each one, what do you think?


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Last edited by Aleena on Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:13 am

Aleena wrote:ok kept the size at 12 since you all wish small text - but to make it clearer - I removed the fancy text for a standard text and have it all in caps.. Can you all read it now? Any other suggestions or concerns?

This text is the right size, I think, and a good-looking font as well. Very good.

I would bold it just a smidgen. I'm not sure if you just have a choice of "bold" and "unbold" or if you can do that in gradual stages. If it's only on-or-off, I would go with bold. If you can do it by degrees, I would bold just a little bit. The reason that in places like Carlisle and Cockermouth where the word passes over the beach, it almost disappears against the camouflage of the beach.

Edit: I see you've already gone another version beyond the one that I was referring to. I was referring to
show: this version


I think that is the better version. The latest version is actually inferior. The white backgrounds beyond the words are distracting and look, well, imposed and not natural. I would go back to the previous version, and just bold the words up a bit so they're more visible. I think that's what Bruce meant by stroking the text.... darken it up a bit as if someone passed over it with another stroke of the brush.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:17 pm

Ty Dukasaur for you detailed comments wish more would give feed back like that...

I'm all ready in the middle of doing another revamp - that removes the white boxes behind the words but adds a slight glow simular as what I'm using for the unit circles...

If this next version is not better - I'll see what I can do about making the version you pointed out with bolder letters.

ty again - your advice is really helpful.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Teflon Kris on Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:37 pm

Worth making the rivers thinner towards their source (they dont need a black outline btw), especially the Tees (which is a mere stream where you have an amazon)

On the rivers subject, if you have the Tees and Trent then you should really also have the Severn and Thames

Cities are a bit closer to real position, a bit, Leeds is currently raising many laughs though ;-) Plus, was Leeds anything in this era?
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:30 pm

My map is roughly based off this map:
http://brummbar.com/brummbar/board_game ... er_Map.pdf
And I focused on the matching shields and the churches.
Though with still more limitations ever those items can not be in the exact spot.

and as you see, where they have placed Newcastle and Leeds is in a simular spot - I think these are not the phyiscal locations, yet the starting points of the Lords of those castles...

As I said before I have to make many adjustments to make everything fit - do not look apon this map as a history lesson or as a class in geography - do to size limitations and many other limitations - I am only hoping for a map that will provide a fun and challenging experience when playing. In the most part this map is a complete fiction (therefore not copy righted by anyone) Did you not notice that Scotland has fallen off this map and is now underwater? So a few cities/castles out of place is nothing in compared to what happened to Scotland. Try to just think of this map as War of the Roses if it had happened in another alternative dimension where Britain was not attached to Scotland and that many Castles where built in different areas. (The is a game and a map of fiction about a real historical war)

If I was able to make the map 5 times the size - then I'd be able to add all the cities and castles and most likely be able to put them in the right spots - there are limitations and over-all this should be about game play and experience. Try not to get hung-up on the little details....
Last edited by Aleena on Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:03 pm

DJ Teflon wrote:Cities are a bit closer to real position, a bit, Leeds is currently raising many laughs though ;-) Plus, was Leeds anything in this era?

Aleena wrote:My map is roughly based off this map:
http://brummbar.com/brummbar/board_game ... er_Map.pdf
And I focused on the matching shields and the churches.
Though with still more limitations ever those items can not be in the exact spot.

and as you see, where they have placed Newcastle and Leeds is in a simular spot - I think these are not the phyiscal locations, yet the starting points of the Lords of those castles...

What is shown there is not the city of Leeds, but Leeds Castle, which was an important Royal stronghold in those days. (south of Maidstone) It has nothing to do with the modern city of Leeds.

Not sure if there is something you can do to make this clear to people, because I'm sure that others will be confused by it as DJ was. Maybe you can call it Maidstone.

In any case, I would swap the position of London and Leeds/Maidstone. While perfect historical accuracy is impossible on this scale, I think people will expect London to be inland and Maidstone to be on the coast. Definitely the original Kingmaker map has Leeds closer to its proper position as between London and Canterbury.

As I said before I have to make many adjustments to make everything fit - do not look apon this map as a history lesson or as a class in geography - do to size limitations and many other limitations - I am only hoping for a map that will provide a fun and challenging experience when playing.

Absolutely agree! But if you can improve the accuracy somewhat, without sacrificing the gameplay, then why not, right?
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:23 pm

Ty for your suggestions - I'll change the name of Leeds to Maidstone - but like the original map that I'm basing most of my map on and because I like the dynamic of it - I want London to be able to be reached by the sea. London is a Harbor and if I move it more inland then it will no longer be a Harbor.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:55 am

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Fixed these issues which where addressed by the community:
Made Text Bold
Made Coventry a central prime location both as route to London as well as a great Blockade spot for the path to St. Davids. This will make Coventry more desirable to fight for.
Changed water to a more Blue color instead of a purple shade.
(Additional changes done to water was: powdered the deep sea to make it look like rippling waves, and added clear blue waters along the shores.)
Changed the colors of the Castles to better recognize the Bonus Color Block areas.
Moved all castle/port/ and church names to be directly above the Unit Qty Circle and below the area graphics - to form a more uniform look and make it easier to match name with location.
Removed the decorative shields off the Ships for they seem to confuse a few people.
Changed name of Leeds to Maidstone
Corrected Spelling on a few other locations.

This is what I came up with:
Any suggestions, comments, advice?
Last edited by Aleena on Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:24 am

Aleena, your efforts are starting to pay off - this version is better than i previously saw :)
Some things for attention if i may...
1. All ships in the west have the same name - W1 - is this intentional?

2. the black text on brown legend is hard to read - are you able to place some lighter layer behind it and offset it all, or
change the colour of the font, or place an outer glow around the text foir more visibility.

3. because of the black place names on dark blue sea it is difficult to read some names which cross from sea onto land or vice versa.
this can be fixed with an outer glow around text, or by extending the light blue coastline out to under those names and make this relatively even all around.

4. you seem to have victory conditions in three places
a. the one under the title
b. control London and 4 churches for 1 turn you win.
c. beside the title
- if the same, they should be in one place so as to not confuse players; this will also reduce the real estate these are taking up and perhaps allow more "eye space" in the legend to read it more comfortably - think about the overall design of you legend.

5. Looking at the southern region around London, there is a big advantage to anyone gaining the churches in the south, if the northern regions don't have easy access to London.
if someone gains Carlisle, Durham, York and Chester, and gets wiped out in the south they have a battle that might take some time to win while their opponent continues to fortify towards the churches and London in the south - i don't know if i am not understand this properly, but the southern advantage seems great. I know there are sea routes in the east.
If i am correct, would you consider some "rider" paths from the north to London that provide that quick access.

5. Caernaron? - Caernarvon or Caernarfon - not sure what you want to use, but i think a small typo perhaps.
Covertry? - Coventry perhaps
Devor - Dover perhaps?

6. also do you have font kerning in your software to spread the text letters evenly so that example Conventry does not appear as 3 sets of letter in one word.
Some fonts do this and need adjusting.
Newcastle looks perfect.

7. for later on, when graphics stage arises, think about some different kinds of trees - simply for variety - the amount you have now seem fine but they are all the same.

8. the minimap colours could do with some love or perhaps different treatment - not sure what is going on there with the whiter sections at the bottom of each region

9. is Stokestay castle part of the welsh region (brown) or mid region (purple) - from the legend it seems it should be part of wales. Seems unfair there is no road from Stokestay to Denbigh.

Hope this helps a little towards your goal. :)
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