Game Page Layout - new proposal! [First Post]

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Do you like the proposed layout?

Poll ended at Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:36 am

Yes
321
71%
No
128
29%
 
Total votes : 449

Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby porkenbeans on Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:29 pm

I have a suggestion that goes to the background and fore ground colors.
My idea is to make the background black, and the text could be white or gold or something.
My reasons for this, is this-

It has been proven that white text over a black background is easier on the eyes, and can actually be read faster and with less eye fatigue than black text on white.

We are used to reading black on white because books have always been printed this way. They are printed this way because, it would cost more, in ink, to do it the other way around.

The pixel world does not use ink, and many that are in the "know" nowadays, are using the white over black instead of the prehistoric black over white.

I can go into the technical reasons, like how the pupil widens and allows more info to the brain. Or how the muscles of the the pupil, have to exert themselves to narrow the pupil, resulting in "eye strain". But suffice it to say, The map will be much easier to read, and will stand out better if the background of the screen was black.
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby vodean on Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:01 pm

just make BOB standard... it'll make things easier
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby Ffraid on Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:37 pm

porkenbeans wrote:... It has been proven that white text over a black background is easier on the eyes, and can actually be read faster and with less eye fatigue than black text on white....

State your source, because I have never found this to be the case. Whenever I have to read text on web pages that use such a format, I always end up going up to the Edit menu and choosing Select All so that, basically, the text and background colors are reversed.
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby porkenbeans on Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:22 pm

Ffraid wrote:
porkenbeans wrote:... It has been proven that white text over a black background is easier on the eyes, and can actually be read faster and with less eye fatigue than black text on white....

State your source, because I have never found this to be the case. Whenever I have to read text on web pages that use such a format, I always end up going up to the Edit menu and choosing Select All so that, basically, the text and background colors are reversed.
And you have proven what ?

It is similar to when you go into a low light surrounding. Your eyes take a few moments to adjust. What they are in actuality doing is, relaxing the muscles that operate your pupil. when they are relaxed your pupils are fully open. Its these muscles for lack of a better word, that become fatigued when you are reading. ;)
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:43 pm

Here is a mock up I think most people would be OK with... If we cannot get a disable button at least we can move things around...

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Please not the names are just for show... That is why the game log is different from the names on the side...
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby The Neon Peon on Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:56 pm

Or... We could have the layout be similar to iGoogle in that we can move things around however we wish. That way, everyone would be happy with the placement of the map / log / chat / stats.

Bruce's way also works.
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby Woodruff on Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:55 pm

porkenbeans wrote:
Ffraid wrote:
porkenbeans wrote:... It has been proven that white text over a black background is easier on the eyes, and can actually be read faster and with less eye fatigue than black text on white....

State your source, because I have never found this to be the case. Whenever I have to read text on web pages that use such a format, I always end up going up to the Edit menu and choosing Select All so that, basically, the text and background colors are reversed.
And you have proven what ?

It is similar to when you go into a low light surrounding. Your eyes take a few moments to adjust. What they are in actuality doing is, relaxing the muscles that operate your pupil. when they are relaxed your pupils are fully open. Its these muscles for lack of a better word, that become fatigued when you are reading. ;)


Does this mean that you don't have a source, or just that you're intentionally avoiding the opportunity to provide it?
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby RjBeals on Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:03 pm

Here's an interface I did a few years ago - but nothing ever happened with it. I was trying show a better layout to allow for larger maps.

Click image to enlarge.
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[edit]
ha.. and while i was poking around, i found this for a banner competition.

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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby porkenbeans on Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:15 pm

Woodruff wrote:
porkenbeans wrote:
Ffraid wrote:
porkenbeans wrote:... It has been proven that white text over a black background is easier on the eyes, and can actually be read faster and with less eye fatigue than black text on white....

State your source, because I have never found this to be the case. Whenever I have to read text on web pages that use such a format, I always end up going up to the Edit menu and choosing Select All so that, basically, the text and background colors are reversed.
And you have proven what ?

It is similar to when you go into a low light surrounding. Your eyes take a few moments to adjust. What they are in actuality doing is, relaxing the muscles that operate your pupil. when they are relaxed your pupils are fully open. Its these muscles for lack of a better word, that become fatigued when you are reading. ;)


Does this mean that you don't have a source, or just that you're intentionally avoiding the opportunity to provide it?
I do not remember where it was that I learned this. Sorry old chap, just a bit of info that got packed into my brain, somewhere along the line. :lol:
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby Ffraid on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:51 pm

porkenbeans wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
porkenbeans wrote:
Ffraid wrote:
porkenbeans wrote:... It has been proven that white text over a black background is easier on the eyes, and can actually be read faster and with less eye fatigue than black text on white....

State your source, because I have never found this to be the case. Whenever I have to read text on web pages that use such a format, I always end up going up to the Edit menu and choosing Select All so that, basically, the text and background colors are reversed.
And you have proven what ?

It is similar to when you go into a low light surrounding. Your eyes take a few moments to adjust. What they are in actuality doing is, relaxing the muscles that operate your pupil. when they are relaxed your pupils are fully open. Its these muscles for lack of a better word, that become fatigued when you are reading. ;)


Does this mean that you don't have a source, or just that you're intentionally avoiding the opportunity to provide it?
I do not remember where it was that I learned this. Sorry old chap, just a bit of info that got packed into my brain, somewhere along the line. :lol:

Um... I wasn't trying to prove anything. You said, "It has been proven...." I was just asking you to tell me where. I certainly understand that you don't remember where you learned that. I don't remember where I learned most of the crap that's packed into my brain, either. I just don't think you should use statements like "It has been proven" unless you can back it up.

I understand your explanation about the muscles, etc. however, an explanation is not proof. The explanation seems reasonable but, and I don't want to be a wanker here (possibly too late for that), I believe the reason that your eyes take a few moments to adjust to entering a low light surrounding is that a protein called opsin is reattaching itself to a pigment called retinal in the rods of your retina to reform a chemical called rhodopsin, which is essential to night vision. Sources: Chemistry of Vision, also Biological night vision. Of course, Wikipedia doesn't count as a real source, since anyone can write whatever they want, but it does give a nice, simple explanation of the process.
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby porkenbeans on Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:25 am

porkenbeans wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
porkenbeans wrote:
Ffraid wrote:
porkenbeans wrote:... It has been proven that white text over a black background is easier on the eyes, and can actually be read faster and with less eye fatigue than black text on white....

State your source, because I have never found this to be the case. Whenever I have to read text on web pages that use such a format, I always end up going up to the Edit menu and choosing Select All so that, basically, the text and background colors are reversed.
And you have proven what ?

It is similar to when you go into a low light surrounding. Your eyes take a few moments to adjust. What they are in actuality doing is, relaxing the muscles that operate your pupil. when they are relaxed your pupils are fully open. Its these muscles for lack of a better word, that become fatigued when you are reading. ;)


Does this mean that you don't have a source, or just that you're intentionally avoiding the opportunity to provide it?
I do not remember where it was that I learned this. Sorry old chap, just a bit of info that got packed into my brain, somewhere along the line. :lol:

Um... I wasn't trying to prove anything. You said, "It has been proven...." I was just asking you to tell me where. I certainly understand that you don't remember where you learned that. I don't remember where I learned most of the crap that's packed into my brain, either. I just don't think you should use statements like "It has been proven" unless you can back it up.

I understand your explanation about the muscles, etc. however, an explanation is not proof. The explanation seems reasonable but, and I don't want to be a wanker here (possibly too late for that), I believe the reason that your eyes take a few moments to adjust to entering a low light surrounding is that a protein called opsin is reattaching itself to a pigment called retinal in the rods of your retina to reform a chemical called rhodopsin, which is essential to night vision. Sources: Chemistry of Vision, also Biological night vision. Of course, Wikipedia doesn't count as a real source, since anyone can write whatever they want, but it does give a nice, simple explanation of the process.



[/quote]I did not mean to infer that the pupil opening and closing, is the only thing going on. I was only trying to explain why, and how eye fatigue occurs. The pupil is dilated at its resting state. in order for the pupil to narrow it needs to exert a certain amount of force. If you are staring at a mostly white screen for a prolong amount of time, you may experience "eye strain", or "fatigue". This is because the pupil is working hard to narrow itself, so as to let less light into your eye. This is not really "rocket science". And, simple logic will tell you that the more dilated that your pupils are working the less strain you will encounter.
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby denominator on Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:36 am

RjBeals wrote:Here's an interface I did a few years ago - but nothing ever happened with it. I was trying show a better layout to allow for larger maps.

Click image to enlarge.
image


[edit]
ha.. and while i was poking around, i found this for a banner competition.

Image


This would definitely take some getting used to, but I really like this. It sets up all the info in places that it's easy to see without having to scroll everywhere, and allows for bigger maps. Is the game log gone for a specific reason?

To accommodate the stats bar, you could simply move your game info from where it is to where it currently sits (horizontally under the map) and replace that box with the stats bar.

For those of us with BOB, it would simply push everything down like it currently does.
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby sherkaner on Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:48 am

denominator wrote:
RjBeals wrote:Here's an interface I did a few years ago - but nothing ever happened with it. I was trying show a better layout to allow for larger maps.

Click image to enlarge.
image


[edit]
ha.. and while i was poking around, i found this for a banner competition.

Image


This would definitely take some getting used to, but I really like this. It sets up all the info in places that it's easy to see without having to scroll everywhere, and allows for bigger maps. Is the game log gone for a specific reason?

To accommodate the stats bar, you could simply move your game info from where it is to where it currently sits (horizontally under the map) and replace that box with the stats bar.

For those of us with BOB, it would simply push everything down like it currently does.


Not entirely true. The player names/teams are used for highlighting every country someone has in BOB. Moving the names lower wouldn't be appreciated by everyone (including me). I agree that time, additional links and game number work fine above the map (though time should be in the upper right corner). But the players (and cards, I can't find that info now) are an important part of the game, you'd definately want to see them in 1 screen with the map.
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby RjBeals on Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:34 am

yeah - this was a rough draft i did a while ago when there was talk of an interface redesign. If Lack would have even shown the slightest interest, I could have pursued it.
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:55 am

RjBeals wrote:yeah - this was a rough draft i did a while ago when there was talk of an interface redesign. If Lack would have even shown the slightest interest, I could have pursued it.

Lack's idea for a redesign I think is going a different angle than that one (and a couple of other proposed ones I've seen over time). But we do have a lot of unnecessary space, so that is something he is going to try to minimize...


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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby JoshyBoy on Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:16 am

Can we see all medals in the forum please? :D
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby Duality. on Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:16 pm

RjBeals' version is hawt.
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby yeti_c on Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:59 pm

yeti_c wrote:Sorry for Double post but...

lackattack wrote:Thanks for the feedback, I read every post (and I especially appreciate the mockup, Ffraid).

I'll prepare a few mockups of my own based on your feedback and put them to a vote in the coming days...


Now that Javascript is forced on... just implement the "hide menu" code that I wrote for BOB...

That will give you a massive amount of real estate...

Personally I prefer to have the "hide menu" on as the "Game" setting - which means it only happens in the games... and not in the forums.

Which I think is the best mix - but it would be ace if you can code it as selectable.

C.


Anyone?

Simple and effective?

C.
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby Ace Rimmer on Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:41 pm

wow Yeti, I never realized what the Hide Menu did before :oops: That's a great option.

I prefer having the CC menus along the top with drop down for submenu items. Meaning, add Game/Interaction/Personal beside Help in the same style as Home/Instructions/etc. Mouseover or click brings down the submenu. That would be an easy place to add menu entries for add-ons such as BOB or Map Rank GL.

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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby porkenbeans on Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:18 pm

I think it would be nice to have the attack buttons to the right of the map instead of the names. This way you would not have to scroll so much, while taking your turn.

RJ's version is nice, but I would move the menu down, and put the attack buttons up there.
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby registered_user on Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:53 pm

RJBeals is on the right track.

I've complained in the past about how any given screen in the forum is two lines of actual content, the same thing applies here. When you're filling in a web form -- or taking a turn in a game, all the stuff that's around the interface that you don't need/want is clutter. Think about the view: game play. What do you need, as a player, to play the game?

The nav on the left doesn't need to be there. It barely needs to be there as it is, but definitely shouldn't be so prominent in the game play view. The map and the attack interface (dice), obviously, are the most important parts. Then players (and their stats) and your spoils, then chat, and last is the log. Think about what you look at. Do you look for comments or in the log more often? Do you look at your spoils or at the other players'? Evaluate and assign a rank to each element.

Once you've rated each element's value, the rest falls right in line. The timer is awfully prominent and offers very little value outside of a speed game on a large map. Same with game number and round number. Yes, it's nice to know, but it's not the end of the world if I have to scroll to find it while in the game play view.

Add color codes could go into user preferences. I don't imagine people toggle that off and on a whole lot -- either you use it or you don't.

Larger map is nice, but that and refresh could be consolidated to small icons near the map.

Feedback rating doesn't need to be there. A user's profile is a click away, and if I'm in a game with a jerk, I don't need a low number staring back at me to remind me of that.

Game stats like Fog / Assassin / Initial Troops / blah can go where the game number and other game meta data goes. It's important for the record keepers and the database and whatever, but it's not important to the game play.

The premium and merchandise ads, while necessary, probably never get clicked mid-turn either. They can move down.

Now, regarding user stats. You don't need to reference them with each roll of the dice. If you do, then you're doing it wrong. Sure, sometimes when you conquer a territory you want to check if you knocked your opponent down from 18 to 17 territories, but for the most part, casual checking suffices.

As far as layout is concerned, if you can't find a satisfactory layout at a smaller size, you might do well to employ something like this: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/switchymclayout/ where you can really think about user experience and provide the view you envision to users with 1920px resolution, and then degrade gracefully to smaller screens.

I have a 1280px wide MacBook at home. It's not a lot of room. I realize that I need to scroll around to see more stuff, but vertical is always better than horizontal scrolling.

I hope this helps inform your layout decisions.
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Re: Game Page Layout Discussion

Postby denominator on Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:08 pm

registered_user wrote:The nav on the left doesn't need to be there. It barely needs to be there as it is, but definitely shouldn't be so prominent in the game play view. The map and the attack interface (dice), obviously, are the most important parts. Then players (and their stats) and your spoils, then chat, and last is the log. Think about what you look at. Do you look for comments or in the log more often? Do you look at your spoils or at the other players'? Evaluate and assign a rank to each element.


The nav on the left could easily be incorporated into the nav at the top, with the menus changing to drop down menus. Game Menu gives you the "My Games", "Join a Game", etc. etc. etc. Even the scripts like BOB and Map Rank could be moved there easily. That will increase your horizontal screen availability.

registered_user wrote:Add color codes could go into user preferences. I don't imagine people toggle that off and on a whole lot -- either you use it or you don't.


I have to disagree with you here. I switch between the two almost every game. I find the colour codes distracting for games with 4 or less players, but necessary for games with 5 or more. So every time I "jump to my next playable game" and the number of players changes I just hit the colour code button and switch it.

registered_user wrote:Larger map is nice, but that and refresh could be consolidated to small icons near the map.


I would just put all 3 of those "buttons" (including colour codes) above the map, so they're accessible when you need them but out of the way most of the time.

registered_user wrote:Feedback rating doesn't need to be there. A user's profile is a click away, and if I'm in a game with a jerk, I don't need a low number staring back at me to remind me of that.


Totally agree with you there. The Feedback rating is also visible on the "My Games" screen, so you can see what any player's rating is there.

registered_user wrote:Game stats like Fog / Assassin / Initial Troops / blah can go where the game number and other game meta data goes. It's important for the record keepers and the database and whatever, but it's not important to the game play.


Again, above the map. Accessible when needed, out of the way otherwise.

registered_user wrote:The premium and merchandise ads, while necessary, probably never get clicked mid-turn either. They can move down.


Put them in the top bar with the rest of the options. That bar stays there no matter where you are on the site (like the side bar now), so might as well consolidate.

registered_user wrote:Now, regarding user stats. You don't need to reference them with each roll of the dice. If you do, then you're doing it wrong. Sure, sometimes when you conquer a territory you want to check if you knocked your opponent down from 18 to 17 territories, but for the most part, casual checking suffices.


I fully agree with you yet again. Let the stats refresh when a player hits refresh map, like the game chat doesn't need to update with every roll.

With the current setup, there is a lot of wasted space and a lot of info in places that is not easily accessible. The key is to make the essential parts easily accessible to everybody, and then add in the extra stuff.
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Re: Game Page Layout - new proposal!

Postby lackattack on Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:50 am

Thanks again for the feedback!

yeti_c - Hiding the side menu (or shrinking it to an iconified strip) is definitely a worthy idea. Fortunately, the side menu will be history when we do the sitewide redesign.

RjBeals - I didn't forget about your layout. In fact, I reviewed all the screenshots from the old design committee while working on this update. A radical change like yours could be appropriate for when we do the sitewide redesign.

registered_user - Excellent post. I'll keep your tips in mind for this and future UI changes. Good to know about Switchy McLayout!

Bruceswar - Although I wanted to avoid listing players twice, I think this approach is the simplest way to address everyone's concerns. I'm updating my first post with a similar mockup.
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Re: Game Page Layout - new proposal!

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:14 pm

I think something like this could indeed work---but I still look forward to the site redesign in 2010! But so far, so good.


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Re: Game Page Layout - new proposal! [First Post]

Postby nippersean on Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:52 pm

It may have been mentioned but there are a couple of hover things that need to be seen at the same time as the gameplay screen.
Player, team, spoils ters etc. they should be in the same view.
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