[Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Changes

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In Team Games, should you only be able to invite others as Teammates, removing all Opponent invites?

Yes
175
45%
No
214
55%
 
Total votes : 389

Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby L M S on Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:04 pm

Now that TO's and clan leaders have expanded privileges why do we need the invite system for public games at all? For private games just PM the password. The big stumbling block was clan wars...that problem has been solved.
I for one, would like to see the public games go back to the old way before invites were available, we all got along fine and our 'regular' teams still found a way to play together then and they will again...bring back the open competition it fostered.

Locks only keep out honest people.
The cheaters and abusers will find a way no matter what, at the very least we should make that kind of mentality/modus operandi as "inconvenient" as possible.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Landain on Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:12 pm

I like the current invitation system. Leave it alone. Anyone who doesn't want to accept an invitation has the right to decline.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Robespierre__ on Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:21 pm

Robitussin is legal but you can abuse it. People can follow the letter of the law but not the spirit. That said, it seems to me that limiting it only in public games makes sense to me.

Also, it would be nice if you join a game and invite a friend, if the friend fails to join in 24 hours, that you are also kicked out of the game. That way you are not stuck playing with some random person when you did not intend to do so.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby jmyork82 on Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:48 pm

what happens when you want to to play against a specific team. why cant team 1 invite team 2 to play against them?
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby stahrgazer on Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:37 pm

Dako wrote:How can abuse be legal? It doesn't make sense.


They're calling it abuse, but so far, I've seen no disciplinary actions taken against people who invite anyone other than new recruits, consistently, to games (team or otherwise)... so if inviting people to games is abuse, but it's not being punished, then it's "legal abuse".

If it's legal, don't change it. If it's not legal, punish it.

Either eay, leave the invite system as is, rather than punish 'non abusers' by making invites harder.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby danfrank on Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:08 pm

I am curious as to how this affects any one of us ? i can honestly careless if a person farms , invites cooks and ? marks to there games and so forth and so on. Its none of my business. The invited does not have to except the invitation :-s


I voted no.. Deadlocked at 37 .. It seems the issue doesnt have enough support either way..


On a positive note and way off topic.. I have to say i love these dancing blue dude and would like to THANK whoever created him .. =D> :P


:lol: :lol:

And 1 more thing nothing is perfect on this site , from the erratic dice, to the seriously flawed rating system to the scoring system ( some say ) . Were here to have fun,the maps and the connectivity for speed games are unmatched by imitators. Why worry about who is inviting who. There is always going to be someone who tries to exploit the system no matter what is put in place..
Last edited by danfrank on Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby danfrank on Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:10 pm

morleyjoe wrote:
Gold Knight wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:
Dako wrote:Yes, I think public games should be limited to invites at your own team only.

Private is ok I think.


Keep in mind, and make sure to read carefully, this is for both public and private---all Opponent Invitations (Tournaments, Non-Team Games, etc excluded).


--Andy


Why cant it be made for just public? A private game should be able to invite whoever, as they made it with the intention of inviting the players one would think. I think the public games are the only ones being absued as far as ive seen.

I agree basically with what Dako said.


I agree with Dako and Gold Knight - private games should remain as they are, public can be changed to stop any abuse there.



A private game can still be abused by PMing a password before the invite... :roll:
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Nephilim on Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:16 pm

i like the current system. i don't think the vast majority of legitimate players should have to suffer because of a few assholes. plus, as someone has mentioned, if those being "invite-farmed" don't wanna join, they don't have to. you can't cure stupid...

bottom line, i really don't care if some jerks get their points in unethical ways. they are jerks, that's what they do. don't mess with my gameplay experience over it!

unless, of course, you really think this is a business decision and that "invite-farming" is driving away potential long-term customers. THAT'S what you really need to determine, and none of our opinions matter on that score!

(if you have to do something, i agree with dako: leave private invites as they are, it is nice and convenient. trash the public invites only)

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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Bruceswar on Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:41 am

jmyork82 wrote:what happens when you want to to play against a specific team. why cant team 1 invite team 2 to play against them?



Make a private game and send them the game number and password. Gives them more than 24 hours to except, and also keeps anybody else from joining. Works out simple.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Bruceswar on Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:42 am

morleyjoe wrote:
Gold Knight wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:
Dako wrote:Yes, I think public games should be limited to invites at your own team only.

Private is ok I think.


Keep in mind, and make sure to read carefully, this is for both public and private---all Opponent Invitations (Tournaments, Non-Team Games, etc excluded).


--Andy


Why cant it be made for just public? A private game should be able to invite whoever, as they made it with the intention of inviting the players one would think. I think the public games are the only ones being absued as far as ive seen.

I agree basically with what Dako said.


I agree with Dako and Gold Knight - private games should remain as they are, public can be changed to stop any abuse there.



If we were to make it so private games are not the same as public games the abusers would just make them private and invite people till they fill up.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Bruceswar on Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:48 am

Nephilim wrote:unless, of course, you really think this is a business decision and that "invite-farming" is driving away potential long-term customers. THAT'S what you really need to determine, and none of our opinions matter on that score!



This is the main reason farming was put to an end as far as ?'s go. This is same reason this is being looked into. A few bad apples can spoil a whole bunch of apples. I too wish we did not have to deal with this, but the bottom line is $$$. Anything that can be used to try and keep some of that money from leaving will be tried.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Dako on Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:58 am

Bruceswar wrote:
morleyjoe wrote:
Gold Knight wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:
Dako wrote:Yes, I think public games should be limited to invites at your own team only.

Private is ok I think.


Keep in mind, and make sure to read carefully, this is for both public and private---all Opponent Invitations (Tournaments, Non-Team Games, etc excluded).


--Andy


Why cant it be made for just public? A private game should be able to invite whoever, as they made it with the intention of inviting the players one would think. I think the public games are the only ones being absued as far as ive seen.

I agree basically with what Dako said.


I agree with Dako and Gold Knight - private games should remain as they are, public can be changed to stop any abuse there.



If we were to make it so private games are not the same as public games the abusers would just make them private and invite people till they fill up.

But in private games you cannot wait for other to join and sending random invites will barely fill your game.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Frankly, my dear on Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:00 am

I GOT A KEY BY THE THREE WHEN CHIRP SHORTY CHIRP BACK!!
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby zeractal on Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:35 am

I would have thought that if you wanted to set up a game (amongst friends) it would be no harder setting up a private game and telling the other players via private messages then inviting them all, especially since you would all have to agree to the map and settings before its set up so ultimately just have to 'reply' to the previous pm once with the correct game number and password for them to join.
This also means if someone drops out or doesn't join in 24hours a stranger can't join by mistake.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby ganguscalm on Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:39 am

1st of all , thank you Andy for all you do to keep this web site a fun place for us all . =D> =D> =D>
As a senior member and Advisory Council member in Xi games ( Xi , the greatest club in all CC ) , I don't see the harm in just leaving it as it is . We help our friends fill there games with other players that meet our standards . Don't change a thing ! If you meet a " Dumb Arss " in public games , the " friend or Foe " system works just fine . Personally , I think you/we/I as players in CC should be able to make his/her own choices . The weak minded , bad attitude , juvenile players will " weed " them selves out .
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Teflon Kris on Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:08 am

Sorry, I've not read everything, but would suggest:

    No invitations for the other team in public games.

    Yes, definitely in private games. This is especially the case for things like clan war games (where it would be handy to have a Private Game Label too - although this is a seperate topic).

    Invitations for your own team in speed doubles (although this is really a seperate topic of speed invites).

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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby stahrgazer on Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:29 pm

Nephilim wrote:(if you have to do something, i agree with dako: leave private invites as they are, it is nice and convenient. trash the public invites only)
peace


Devil's advocate: If you trash a public invite system, you're skewing the options toward premium players (freemie players cannot make private games). That may be what the site wants to do, one more reason to get premium "Look, with premium, you can send invites as well as set passwords." Of course, doing this will not prevent a premium player who wants to invite noobs to games, from creating private games and sending noobs the passwords.

I've still not seen an explanation of why the practice is considered an abuse if it's legal (not against any CC rules) to do.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Leehar on Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:28 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
Nephilim wrote:(if you have to do something, i agree with dako: leave private invites as they are, it is nice and convenient. trash the public invites only)
peace


Devil's advocate: If you trash a public invite system, you're skewing the options toward premium players (freemie players cannot make private games). That may be what the site wants to do, one more reason to get premium "Look, with premium, you can send invites as well as set passwords." Of course, doing this will not prevent a premium player who wants to invite noobs to games, from creating private games and sending noobs the passwords.

I've still not seen an explanation of why the practice is considered an abuse if it's legal (not against any CC rules) to do.

I thought it was already the case that only premium people could send invites... I don't think I've ever seen a freemium invite as of yet....
I also could offer some examples of why abusing something has no direct relationship with legality, but I would have thought you'd be smart enough to figure it out by yourself..
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby stahrgazer on Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:06 pm

Leehar wrote:I also could offer some examples of why abusing something has no direct relationship with legality, but I would have thought you'd be smart enough to figure it out by yourself..


Could you, now? And here, I thought there was some sort of anti-abuse rule on CC. Hmmm, what was that rule, let me think
Unwritten Rules

Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits.


hmm...

So my point is, if whatever they're going to change the invite system from its current really convenient state to something less convenient, is supposedly being changed to prevent an ABUSE they don't want happening, then why aren't any of the standard anti-abuse disciplines being done, to limit the instances and maybe enable keeping a fairly convenient invite system as convenient as it currently is?
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby ender516 on Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:55 pm

I am not speaking in any official capacity here, but I think that a change to the mechanism of the site that would reduce or eliminate the unwanted behaviour automatically and impartially is far preferable to introducing a new rule, which would likely be enforced only upon complaint, subject to interpretation, and a further burden on the moderators.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby stahrgazer on Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:12 am

ender516 wrote:I am not speaking in any official capacity here, but I think that a change to the mechanism of the site that would reduce or eliminate the unwanted behaviour automatically and impartially is far preferable to introducing a new rule, which would likely be enforced only upon complaint, subject to interpretation, and a further burden on the moderators.


And I think it should be both or neither; if it's unwanted abuse, it should be disciplined. Apparently these folks think they found evidence that some sort of change is required; i.e. that someone is using the system to such a degree that it's being considered gross abuse enough to possibly require changing the system.

If it's not gross abuse enough to require discipline, then why change the system? If it doesn't matter enough to specifically warn people from doing it, well, I think there are other changes members would like to see in advance of something that isn't problem enough to enforce a rule about; especially when the change will eliminate one real nice convenience the site added - a convenience that has been very popular for all players, not just tournament organizers, not just clan members, not just premiums, but all players.

The logic I'm seeing here seems to be, "It's okay as long as it doesn't affect MY preferred games." This change is going to affect someone's preferred or occasional games... and why? To make something that, apparently, isn't even against the rules, impossible to do? I would understand the need for the change much more if what they're programming against was against the rules and that rule was being enforced.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby General Brewsie on Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:07 pm

I would not like to see the ability to invite opponents curtailed. Occasionally an opponent beats me so badly that I ask if he thinks he can do it twice in a row and I tell him to accept my invitation to give me another lesson in humility. These are usually darned good players and we end up with challenging, interesting matches.

I say please don't take that fun out of the games.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:08 am

Thanks for all the feedback so far, especially the comments included in this topic.


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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby shocked439 on Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:30 am

If these abuses are garnering this much attention why should you punish those of us who use the invite system for legitimate purposes? Clearly define what an abuse of the invite system is, and enforce it. Or state the invite system is flawed but acceptable and no recent activities can be defined as abuse. Restricting it in it's entirety does not seem fair to 97% of the site.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Slaylark on Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:41 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
ender516 wrote:I am not speaking in any official capacity here, but I think that a change to the mechanism of the site that would reduce or eliminate the unwanted behaviour automatically and impartially is far preferable to introducing a new rule, which would likely be enforced only upon complaint, subject to interpretation, and a further burden on the moderators.


And I think it should be both or neither; if it's unwanted abuse, it should be disciplined. Apparently these folks think they found evidence that some sort of change is required; i.e. that someone is using the system to such a degree that it's being considered gross abuse enough to possibly require changing the system.

If it's not gross abuse enough to require discipline, then why change the system? If it doesn't matter enough to specifically warn people from doing it, well, I think there are other changes members would like to see in advance of something that isn't problem enough to enforce a rule about; especially when the change will eliminate one real nice convenience the site added - a convenience that has been very popular for all players, not just tournament organizers, not just clan members, not just premiums, but all players.

The logic I'm seeing here seems to be, "It's okay as long as it doesn't affect MY preferred games." This change is going to affect someone's preferred or occasional games... and why? To make something that, apparently, isn't even against the rules, impossible to do? I would understand the need for the change much more if what they're programming against was against the rules and that rule was being enforced.



everything stahr has argued is valid and correct. I couldnt agree more.. well said Stahr.
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