[Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Changes

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In Team Games, should you only be able to invite others as Teammates, removing all Opponent invites?

Yes
175
45%
No
214
55%
 
Total votes : 389

Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Teflon Kris on Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:08 am

Sorry, I've not read everything, but would suggest:

    No invitations for the other team in public games.

    Yes, definitely in private games. This is especially the case for things like clan war games (where it would be handy to have a Private Game Label too - although this is a seperate topic).

    Invitations for your own team in speed doubles (although this is really a seperate topic of speed invites).

:D
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby stahrgazer on Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:29 pm

Nephilim wrote:(if you have to do something, i agree with dako: leave private invites as they are, it is nice and convenient. trash the public invites only)
peace


Devil's advocate: If you trash a public invite system, you're skewing the options toward premium players (freemie players cannot make private games). That may be what the site wants to do, one more reason to get premium "Look, with premium, you can send invites as well as set passwords." Of course, doing this will not prevent a premium player who wants to invite noobs to games, from creating private games and sending noobs the passwords.

I've still not seen an explanation of why the practice is considered an abuse if it's legal (not against any CC rules) to do.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Leehar on Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:28 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
Nephilim wrote:(if you have to do something, i agree with dako: leave private invites as they are, it is nice and convenient. trash the public invites only)
peace


Devil's advocate: If you trash a public invite system, you're skewing the options toward premium players (freemie players cannot make private games). That may be what the site wants to do, one more reason to get premium "Look, with premium, you can send invites as well as set passwords." Of course, doing this will not prevent a premium player who wants to invite noobs to games, from creating private games and sending noobs the passwords.

I've still not seen an explanation of why the practice is considered an abuse if it's legal (not against any CC rules) to do.

I thought it was already the case that only premium people could send invites... I don't think I've ever seen a freemium invite as of yet....
I also could offer some examples of why abusing something has no direct relationship with legality, but I would have thought you'd be smart enough to figure it out by yourself..
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby stahrgazer on Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:06 pm

Leehar wrote:I also could offer some examples of why abusing something has no direct relationship with legality, but I would have thought you'd be smart enough to figure it out by yourself..


Could you, now? And here, I thought there was some sort of anti-abuse rule on CC. Hmmm, what was that rule, let me think
Unwritten Rules

Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits.


hmm...

So my point is, if whatever they're going to change the invite system from its current really convenient state to something less convenient, is supposedly being changed to prevent an ABUSE they don't want happening, then why aren't any of the standard anti-abuse disciplines being done, to limit the instances and maybe enable keeping a fairly convenient invite system as convenient as it currently is?
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby ender516 on Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:55 pm

I am not speaking in any official capacity here, but I think that a change to the mechanism of the site that would reduce or eliminate the unwanted behaviour automatically and impartially is far preferable to introducing a new rule, which would likely be enforced only upon complaint, subject to interpretation, and a further burden on the moderators.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby stahrgazer on Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:12 am

ender516 wrote:I am not speaking in any official capacity here, but I think that a change to the mechanism of the site that would reduce or eliminate the unwanted behaviour automatically and impartially is far preferable to introducing a new rule, which would likely be enforced only upon complaint, subject to interpretation, and a further burden on the moderators.


And I think it should be both or neither; if it's unwanted abuse, it should be disciplined. Apparently these folks think they found evidence that some sort of change is required; i.e. that someone is using the system to such a degree that it's being considered gross abuse enough to possibly require changing the system.

If it's not gross abuse enough to require discipline, then why change the system? If it doesn't matter enough to specifically warn people from doing it, well, I think there are other changes members would like to see in advance of something that isn't problem enough to enforce a rule about; especially when the change will eliminate one real nice convenience the site added - a convenience that has been very popular for all players, not just tournament organizers, not just clan members, not just premiums, but all players.

The logic I'm seeing here seems to be, "It's okay as long as it doesn't affect MY preferred games." This change is going to affect someone's preferred or occasional games... and why? To make something that, apparently, isn't even against the rules, impossible to do? I would understand the need for the change much more if what they're programming against was against the rules and that rule was being enforced.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby General Brewsie on Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:07 pm

I would not like to see the ability to invite opponents curtailed. Occasionally an opponent beats me so badly that I ask if he thinks he can do it twice in a row and I tell him to accept my invitation to give me another lesson in humility. These are usually darned good players and we end up with challenging, interesting matches.

I say please don't take that fun out of the games.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:08 am

Thanks for all the feedback so far, especially the comments included in this topic.


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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby shocked439 on Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:30 am

If these abuses are garnering this much attention why should you punish those of us who use the invite system for legitimate purposes? Clearly define what an abuse of the invite system is, and enforce it. Or state the invite system is flawed but acceptable and no recent activities can be defined as abuse. Restricting it in it's entirety does not seem fair to 97% of the site.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Slaylark on Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:41 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
ender516 wrote:I am not speaking in any official capacity here, but I think that a change to the mechanism of the site that would reduce or eliminate the unwanted behaviour automatically and impartially is far preferable to introducing a new rule, which would likely be enforced only upon complaint, subject to interpretation, and a further burden on the moderators.


And I think it should be both or neither; if it's unwanted abuse, it should be disciplined. Apparently these folks think they found evidence that some sort of change is required; i.e. that someone is using the system to such a degree that it's being considered gross abuse enough to possibly require changing the system.

If it's not gross abuse enough to require discipline, then why change the system? If it doesn't matter enough to specifically warn people from doing it, well, I think there are other changes members would like to see in advance of something that isn't problem enough to enforce a rule about; especially when the change will eliminate one real nice convenience the site added - a convenience that has been very popular for all players, not just tournament organizers, not just clan members, not just premiums, but all players.

The logic I'm seeing here seems to be, "It's okay as long as it doesn't affect MY preferred games." This change is going to affect someone's preferred or occasional games... and why? To make something that, apparently, isn't even against the rules, impossible to do? I would understand the need for the change much more if what they're programming against was against the rules and that rule was being enforced.



everything stahr has argued is valid and correct. I couldnt agree more.. well said Stahr.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby JP007 on Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:59 pm

double ditto on the Slaylark and Stahrgazer wrote above.
I have not EVER seen any problems or abuse what so ever with the invite system since it was implemented.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Big Yuma Ripper on Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:34 pm

shocked439 wrote:If these abuses are garnering this much attention why should you punish those of us who use the invite system for legitimate purposes? Clearly define what an abuse of the invite system is, and enforce it. Or state the invite system is flawed but acceptable and no recent activities can be defined as abuse. Restricting it in it's entirety does not seem fair to 97% of the site.



Just seen this, agree with what is said above, Don't let a few cheap scats ruin it for everybody else :evil:
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby BoganGod on Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:46 am

Sorry folks, haven't taken the time to read through all posted here, time poor at present need sleep. Though there are some abusing the invite system, the system as it stands works fine. Maybe the guidelines/rules could be adjusted to ban some of the more unsavoury invite practises. I use the invite system mainly to invite teammates, but is very useful to invite the other team. For example if I've arranged to play a private quads against a few decent players from another clan, rather than exchanging password etc. I just send invite to first player who invites the rest of the team, I'm sure other people use invite system the same way. Would be a shame to see something that is working dicked around with because of a few bad eggs. I fully understand that the rules must fit all, but as requested previously in this mini essay maybe tighten up the rules rather than changing the system. Thats my 2cents worth. Bogan out
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby macbone on Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:33 am

I sometimes invite friends to play against them in team games, but making the game a Private game would accomplish the same end, and I wouldn't mind. I voted no to the change, but if the abuses are that egregious, then I won't complain loudly if the system's changed. =)
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby stahrgazer on Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:24 am

macbone wrote:I sometimes invite friends to play against them in team games, but making the game a Private game would accomplish the same end, and I wouldn't mind. I voted no to the change, but if the abuses are that egregious, then I won't complain loudly if the system's changed. =)


I agree with you here; but I still wonder, if the abuses ARE that egregious, why is there no rule and disciplines going on for those known instances?

Can't say mods and such don't have time to look and merit the whippings, if someone looked enough to find enough evidence to think a system program needs to prevent it.

I'd really like to see a rule and attempts at the discipline to curb the trend, BEFORE a program change that reduces convenience to a majority of others.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Dako on Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:21 pm

Because it is easy to create a new rule, but lots of rules are not good. And if it is possible to prevent the abuse automatically by the system - it is better to do so. Less work for mods - more work in other areas. This is the case when you can handle things on automated level rather than by human power (in case of trolling, pornography and so on).
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Elijah S on Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:19 pm

I think a second poll should be started asking players if they think CC should have the right to put these kind of notices in our control panel. It seems kindof presumptive of the administration to just drop these in a place which, in my opinion, should be completely private. -Hence the title Personal Menu.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Dako on Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:20 pm

Go ahead and start it.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby stahrgazer on Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:56 pm

Dako wrote:Because it is easy to create a new rule, but lots of rules are not good. And if it is possible to prevent the abuse automatically by the system - it is better to do so. Less work for mods - more work in other areas. This is the case when you can handle things on automated level rather than by human power (in case of trolling, pornography and so on).



I guess the main problem is, I can't see why an invite system is an abuse when people have been cleared of gross abuse when they set up games with near-noobs in any other form; and at least being part of a team could give the near-noob a fighting chance.

Personally, I'd rather see the invited system EXPANDED to include speed games, rather than restricted "just in case someone invites a noobie to a game so whaaa whaaa a full team can't join THAT game"
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby nietzsche on Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:04 am

May I say all this is gay?
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby stahrgazer on Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:38 pm

nietzsche wrote:May I say all this is gay?


only if you mean 'happy' - any other definition could be considered bigotry :lol:
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Dako on Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:19 am

stahrgazer wrote:
Dako wrote:Because it is easy to create a new rule, but lots of rules are not good. And if it is possible to prevent the abuse automatically by the system - it is better to do so. Less work for mods - more work in other areas. This is the case when you can handle things on automated level rather than by human power (in case of trolling, pornography and so on).



I guess the main problem is, I can't see why an invite system is an abuse when people have been cleared of gross abuse when they set up games with near-noobs in any other form; and at least being part of a team could give the near-noob a fighting chance.

Personally, I'd rather see the invited system EXPANDED to include speed games, rather than restricted "just in case someone invites a noobie to a game so whaaa whaaa a full team can't join THAT game"

People were cleared because there were no rule about abusing it. But it really is an abuse the way it is right now. So instead of creating new rule and loading mods with work - it will be much easier to do it in the server side.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby stahrgazer on Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:26 pm

Dako wrote:People were cleared because there were no rule about abusing it. But it really is an abuse the way it is right now. So instead of creating new rule and loading mods with work - it will be much easier to do it in the server side.


It might be easier, but it removes a convenience that HONEST players LIKE. I'd rather see the bad boys punished than ME be punished for what THEY did.

Using the same object of " program to prevent the problem so mods don't have to monitor it," why don't we eliminate Live Chat and Game Chat and Forums since some people violate stuff? That would clear up mods to monitor improper abuses. Well, of course, those things would take away some conveniences that people like.. but why is "invite system" a discardable convenience and "ability to chat," NOT a discardable convenience?
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby Dako on Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:01 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
Dako wrote:People were cleared because there were no rule about abusing it. But it really is an abuse the way it is right now. So instead of creating new rule and loading mods with work - it will be much easier to do it in the server side.


It might be easier, but it removes a convenience that HONEST players LIKE. I'd rather see the bad boys punished than ME be punished for what THEY did.

Using the same object of " program to prevent the problem so mods don't have to monitor it," why don't we eliminate Live Chat and Game Chat and Forums since some people violate stuff? That would clear up mods to monitor improper abuses. Well, of course, those things would take away some conveniences that people like.. but why is "invite system" a discardable convenience and "ability to chat," NOT a discardable convenience?

Your example is really grotesque. How can one compare the whole forum and an invite system? I think you are taking this too seriously - believe me, it will not affect the game process that much. Yes, public invites can be removed from team games, but it doesn't mean you cannot play with your friends together. Yes, it will be harder to do, but still manageable. And we lived without invites for a very long time and just PMing the password worked fine.
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Re: [Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Chan

Postby stahrgazer on Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:07 pm

Dako wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:
Dako wrote:People were cleared because there were no rule about abusing it. But it really is an abuse the way it is right now. So instead of creating new rule and loading mods with work - it will be much easier to do it in the server side.


It might be easier, but it removes a convenience that HONEST players LIKE. I'd rather see the bad boys punished than ME be punished for what THEY did.

Using the same object of " program to prevent the problem so mods don't have to monitor it," why don't we eliminate Live Chat and Game Chat and Forums since some people violate stuff? That would clear up mods to monitor improper abuses. Well, of course, those things would take away some conveniences that people like.. but why is "invite system" a discardable convenience and "ability to chat," NOT a discardable convenience?

Your example is really grotesque. How can one compare the whole forum and an invite system? I think you are taking this too seriously - believe me, it will not affect the game process that much. Yes, public invites can be removed from team games, but it doesn't mean you cannot play with your friends together. Yes, it will be harder to do, but still manageable. And we lived without invites for a very long time and just PMing the password worked fine.


Why not compare the whole forum to the invite system? You suggested we should change things because mods don't have time otherwise - and I find THAT really grotesque. Whereas, eliminate the forums that don't specifically contribute to playing the games, but are places where mods are CONSTANTLY having to monitor, and you'd have more time for mods to monitor a situation where a potential GAME convenience could lead to trouble.

I understand CC lived without a "Live Chat" for a long time, too. But people like it and want it to stay, despite the TROUBLE it takes to monitor.

Same with invites: most of us want to KEEP invites, even if it means there's some "trouble" that mods will have to monitor.
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