One more thing about the dice.

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come on now...just not frikkiin possible!!!

Postby Spartacus on Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:36 pm

I am playing 6 games simultaneously and am extremely skeptical right now about the randomness of the die rolls!!!

3 times in a row, I attecked territorries which were occupied by 1 army with a minimum of 7 and in each case lost the battle!!!

I believe the actual odds of this ever happening are over 7 million to 1!!!

you people need to fine tune the randomness of the dice, cause after thsi happening I am not to sure we have a quality product here, this has completely changed my view!!!

FIX IT !!!

IT AIN't RIGHT !!!

SPARTACUS!!!
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Postby Itrade on Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:30 am

We all have are lucky and unlucky rolls. Perhaps Lack should implement a no-luck option or something. Like you can lose 3 attacking armies to kill a country with 1 defending army, 4 attacking armies to kill a country with 2 defending armies, and 5 armies to kill 3 defending armies in a defending country with 3 or more people.

And of course you'd still have the option before attacking to choose if it's a luckless roll or not so the little people can still have a chance to fight back.
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Postby lackattack on Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:29 am

Yeah it's really hard to know if you were unlucky or the dice are not random enough.

Just to be safe, I replaced the default random number generator with a better one.

Maybe some day I would add a no-luck option, but it's not something I want to build right now.
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Postby molestar on Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:56 pm

I also ran into a bout of bad luck.

I lost nearly all my armies in my newest game just trying to win one freaking state
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Postby Charbroil on Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:22 pm

I think something odd is going on. the 7-1 loss thing has happened to me too, except I did take the territory, but had only 3 units left total. According to the risk battle odds calculator here, there's a 0.88 percent chance of that happening. There's definitely something odd going on, especially since I think it happened twice to me.
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Postby lackattack on Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:16 pm

Well, maybe there was a problem. Let me know if anything crazy happens again.
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Postby Yanksta on Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:38 pm

OHHHHH!!! Im lettin ya know fool! You might have seen my posts, but i have had it :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :x :x :twisted: :evil: :!: :!: :!: :!: :twisted: :evil: :x :evil: :twisted: :x

I tell ya, in more than a 1/2 dozen ocations i have lost more than 2/3 the troops that i was attacking. its rediculous. 14vs3 and i loose 10! 4vs 1 and i dwindle it down to 1! 32vs 19 and i loose. its cost me the game once, and soon to be about twice more. something must be done. i demand justice. give me liberty or give me . redeam us, oh God. diliver us from the profane actions of the random calculator.

Amen
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Postby PacoTheCharm on Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:37 pm

Agreed. This has happened to me often when i have 7v2 and i lose all. gets on my nerves...
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Postby NYMEX on Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:19 pm

sparticus, cry me a river. !
i have game 8 WHERE SOMEONE SURRENDERED BUT 7 TURNS LATER CAME BACK TO WIN THE GAME WITHOUT EVER ROLLING THE DICE
HE OWNED ALMOST THE WHOLE WORLD WITHOUT EVER LOGGING IN. AS WELL I AND ANOTHER PLAYER WERE ELIMINATED FROM THIS GAME FRO BEING DEADBEATS BUT WE BOTH PLAYED EVERY DAY. DELANY43 IS A HOMO AND A POTENTIAL MULTY,

CRACKATTACK, YOUR PROMPT REVIEW IS APPRECIATED
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Postby Darkfire001 on Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:50 pm

The Game is just like Risk it's RANDOM when it comes to rolls, think about it HUNDREDS of rolls each day so inveitiably weird situations will occur.

If you've played boardrisk the SAME thing happens from time to time :)
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True....But

Postby Charbroil on Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:11 am

I suppose you do have a point....But it's still odd.
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Postby Usobe on Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:41 pm

I agree that this is a problem, and have expiranced it but not to the large scale all of you have. The Problem might be with a Buggy Number generator, it might not be Refreshing to a new seed on every roll. In any case, it's still a relativly new system, and it isn't bug free.
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Postby Mauddib28 on Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:18 pm

Not that I wouldn't love to help, and if would if I knew enough coding, but it think the problem is that the random number generator isn't having enough time to generate different number, and is therefore getting stuck on the same range of numbers. i.e. you roll a 4 well if the generator hans't had time you will probably get a number from 3-5. Now for those of you smart enought to understand what I'm saying you see how this can both help and hinder game play. The generator would probably work more "randomly" if it had a pre-set number list to pull values from, that way the generator would not get stuck in a number range.

But untill then, programmers and people who understood this.... Good Hunting! :twisted:
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for the programmers

Postby lackattack on Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:19 pm

Okay for all you programmers out there, I base the dice on mt_rand. The function is automatically seeded by PHP, and then it spits out random series of numbers.

The problem (assuming there is a problem and its not just sore loosers complaining :wink: ) may be that each page refresh is re-seeded with a similar seed. So when you attack, you may replay the same random series as the last attack because they happened close to each other.

This is just my theory, I have no idea. But to be safe I can use a list of random numbers from random.org and pull from the list each time the dice is rolled. I am running a test right now to see how many dice get rolled per day, and if I can get my hand on enough random numbers so that I won't run out while people are playing.

Stay tuned....
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Re: for the programmers

Postby Risk_06 on Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:30 pm

lackattack wrote:Stay tuned....


Oh, darn. I was going to change the channel... :(
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Postby Ran Taro on Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:34 pm

Stuff like that happens in real Risk all the time. With this many dice rolls, unlikley things start becoming likley to happen. That's why it's called Risk. There's always a Risk the dice will be against you and your master plan will be foiled! You have to know when to change plan and stop attacking because the dice have gone against you, and how to have contingency plans for this. There's plenty of times it goes the other way and you get lucky, you just don't bitch about those!

Lackattack - I think part of the problem is that other peoples attacking loses and failures aren't recorded in the game log, so people don't see that their opponents get a fair share of bad luck too. This means that their own bad luck seems exaggerated to them, with nothing to directly compare it against.

Perhaps recording "Ran Taro attacked Siam from China and failed with a loss of 12 armies!" in the log would help?
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Postby lackattack on Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:52 pm

Perhaps recording "Ran Taro attacked Siam from China and failed with a loss of 12 armies!" in the log would help?

I would love to record that - it would make the game fully re-createable from the log. But the log would grow so long it would:
-make your browser sluggish
-suck up a ton of bandwith
-suck up a ton of disk space
Also, each attack takes off only 2 armies at a time, so I'd have to put in complicated logic to merge attack events into a big one that says "12 army loss".
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Postby Twill on Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:36 pm

Couldn't you have it record original numbers of men and final number of men and just do some basic subtraction on that one Lack?

That log action tho, could it have a log for the previous 2 moves and then "archive" the rest in a compressed/downloadable file. Perhaps someone would code an offline parser to re-create the game civilization style (where you hit play and it goes through each move of the game)
That would save on the refresh bandwidth and nobody really looks past one or two moves anyhoo...and if they do, then they have the download avail.

Just some thoughts

Twill
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Postby PacoTheCharm on Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:14 pm

just for the commercials man!!
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The Dice are rigged

Postby Pedronicus on Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:43 am

In a game last night i threw 6,5,2 and the defending army threw 7,6

Then when he attacked me i threw 0,0 against his 1,1,1

I didn't manage to get the game number as I was drunk.

Has anyone else come accross this before or should I stop playing this game under the influence?
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Postby Marvaddin on Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:27 am

Im actually saying the dice has a problem, but I didnt konw its this much...
:lol: :lol: 0, 0 against 1, 1, 1?? :lol: :lol:
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The sticky dice are definitely back

Postby kusunoki on Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:50 pm

I am 100% sure the sticky dice are back, I don't post a lot and I don't whine, but this time I am serious. It is simply impossible to roll 4 times in a roll with the 3 attacking and 2 defending dice all being the same. Like someone said in a previous post, the dice can never truly be random. I think lack has gone back to the previous dice system because he said something once about having to order a certain amount of numbers for the dice (when those numbers ran out people were not rolling anything and all attacking dice were losing), but now there are too many games so the system might be back to the sticky dice so lack doesn't have to order those numbers every hour.
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Postby Marvaddin on Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:10 am

Now you all see that I was right, and romber too. We have a bigger partner in this question now. 8)

Well, according with my own post of risk probabilities, in a 3 x 2 roll, there are 7776 possibilities of results. How can someone explain 4 rolls with exactly same numbers? :?
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Postby zorba_ca on Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:11 pm

I think I'm going to have to agree.

I was just in a situation attacking 19-8 and proceeded to lost the first 6 "battles" 0-2. The odds of this happening are about .073%

Obviously, this effectively eliminated me from the game.

Assuming there are 30,000 rolls per day, there will be 5,000 situations like mine. Does this happen 5 times per day?
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Postby lackattack on Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:47 pm

I've heard enough complaining about the dice, so here's what I did:

I replaced the 50,000 set of dice rolls with a new set of 500,000 dice rolls. The dice are still true random numbers from random.org.

As explained before, each time you roll the dice, the engine reads a line from the file and deletes it. When there are none left, it re-loads the file and starts again. This new set should last for 10 days before being recycled at the current rate of play.

But that's not all... I've published the dice file for everyone to inspect! I invite all you statisticians out there to analyze the dice ad nauseum.

Don't worry, you can't really use this dice file to cheat. Even if someone wrote a program that read the file to predict rolls, it would be a lot of work and would not be too effective.
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